535iM Vs 540iA...

[e34.535i.sport]

Fishing for comparisons in terms maintenance/running costs between the two, and any opinions on the two cars in general.

So I've had my 535iM for while now and loved every minute of it. The e34 is my ultimate car and I test drove so many from 525iM's to 540iA's... At the time my 535i was the best compromise in terms of running costs (fuel/insurance/repairs) and performance. It has a comprehensive service history and 154k miles on the clock... I've put a lot of money into the car and made too many repairs to list (you can probably remember some of them!) - and the clutch is getting replaced on tuesday. I trust the car and know it's in great condition and it's very reliable.

Problem is that the memory of that test drive of the 540iA is always at the back of my mind... It was out of this world. The autobox was smooth as silk and the power was never ending. I may have bought this car back then but the service history was missing and my insurance at the time was ridiculous.

To make things worse I was browsing the net and there's a mint (and I mean MINT) 540iA for sale with 70,000miles with a full service history, clearly been well looked after. Really tempting... Money isn't too great lately but waiting will mean finding another one in this condition, which could be difficult. I would need to check the number on the block to see if it's a Nikasil or Alusil engine.

Really I'm just looking into some opinions about the following... Particularly from 540iA owners but all views are welcomed!

As far as I can make out, 540iA's cost a lot more to maintain than a 535iM in terms of repairs as parts are more expensive, as well as fuel and service parts. Not to mention insurance etc. Am I right? People also say the V8's are more 'temperamental', is this true? Another thing in my mind is that my m30 is fairly straightforward and easy to work on, whereas the m60 is more complicated.

I'd love an autobox but wary as it is expensive to get fixed if something goes wrong.

Taking all of this into account I still can't dismiss the idea as the car is 4 years newer, has less miles on the clock etc etc.

So, stick with a trusted old lower maintenance friend (as far as I'm aware) or live the dream? It's 50:50 in my mind.

[Ferret]

Hmm, having driven both a 535 and a 540 I'd have to say that the 535i at around-town speeds felt like it was driving better - but that's because of the different diff ratio. Off the line the 540 seems to be a bit sluggish - but it's a deception more than anything - once it's rolling and the cams have come in it beats a 535 hands down any day.

However, pretty much any work in the engine bay on a 540 is a right royal pain in the arse - very little is accessible and their manifold is prone to leaks.

Just try changing your steering gear ;) you'll be swearing at it very quickly.

I honeslt couldnt comment about the 540i Auto box - however the two Auto E34s I've had - I never trusted them, they just do not exhude confidence. The one in my TDs was totally unpredictable - would try and upshift just as you floored it all the way to kickdown and it had to downshift, resulting in a loud bang on several occasions. The one in my old 525i was similar and in its dying days (the car/engine, not the box) I discovered that the auto boxes dont like being driven hard - when thrashed it'd smoke. I know "dont drive it like a tit then!" but sobeit.

Given the choice I wouldnt buy another E34 auto - unless it was for a motorway cruiser - but even then I objected to the way the gearbox would downshift into 4th the instant you touched the gas pedal. You get better MPG leaving it in 5th and allowing the car to spool up - esp on a high-torque diesel engine that is in its element motorway cruising.

At the end of the day you've gotta think carefully about the cost as well - a 540iA is going to *drink* fuel - I get 17mpg round town on a manual box - and with the coming fuel shortages (Read the bbc news website about the refineries shutting down in scotland for the best part of a month coming) fuel prices are going to be exploited again and skyrocket!

[bubba966]

First off the 540iA gets better gas mileage than you'd think it does. I get 17-19mpg around town, and 25-26mpg on the freeway. All with Dinan software in it. And I leave the AC on all of the time!

It should be significantly faster than your 535iM by a good 1.5 seconds to 60. My M-Sport is slightly faster to 60 than a friends '93 3.6 M5. Granted he's caught up by 100, and will outpace me to 165. But that's 540iA vs. 3.6 M5, not vs. a 535iM. Oh, and for around town driving my M-Sport is a good bit better than his M5. Makes him a bit jealous of my car.

Yes, the trannies in the 540iA's aren't cheap to fix. My original tranny crapped out at about 155k miles. The band that holds the reverse clutch pack together broke. So I bought a used tranny out of another M-Sport that was getting converted to a manual. That one has about 125k on it right now, and might need a rebuild on the valve body. That's reasonable ($450) so I'll just pull it out for a rebuilt one.

Biggest problem with the trannies is the "lifetime" fill. People don't change the fluid. And it should be changed about every 50k or so. My original tranny did last 155k without ever being changed though.

I have never worked on an M30, nor have I worked on my M60 yet. My M60 purrs beautifully all of the time. But I have had it for just a bit over a year, so I suppose I'll have to work on it at some point.

[Paul in NZ]

personally i would not change for another E34 unless it was significantly better condition than mine.I cant comment on the 540 auto but i drove a couple of 540 six speeds(2 e 34 and a e39)The power and civility is head and shoulders above the 535 5 spd but the brakes and steering werent.Even after the e39 540 six speed the 535 still made me smile,and it felt right...i was afraid it would feel old...but it didnt!a 540 six speed in either model would probably use slightly LESS petrol than the 535,not sure how the auto would affect that

[Ross]

The 540's power and sound are nice to have. The servicing is significantly more difficult, the economy worse and insurance more. With a manual box the V-8 might be worth the hassles to me. With the autobox I'd have a hard time justifying it.

[Sixdown]

I looked at a couple of auto 540s before I chose to buy the 535, and sure, they both seemed faster once rolling at speeds above 30mph, but the manual gave the 535 the greatest thrill. I love working on the M30 engine and love the room provided to work around and parts are priced pretty well too imo. If it were a manual 540, maybe that would be a purely different matter, but for practicality, I would still choose to keep the 535iM.

[Eagle]

Id imagine that 540i would be similar feeling I had when i owned a E32 750i, love it when its going hate it when it time to fix something.

I Haven't driven a 540i manual but have the auto and it just remindes me of a 750i, extra quiet, smooth idle and power. While the 540i probably nicer on the freeway id take the a 535i manual anyday its just better all round for the reasons listed. Ive never got sick of driving manuals cant say the same for autos.

But yeah sounds like a hard choice, i buy a different BMW every year just the experience them all :).

[pingu]

I love the autobox on the 540iA - around town (in economy mode) the engine seldom does more than 1,500 rpm so everything is nice and quiet. When you put it into sport mode, it really flies. There's no way I'd go back to manual (I used to have a 525). The same gearbox (5HP30) was used by Aston Martin and Rolls Royce. I suspect the reason autoboxes normally get a bad rap is that they might be a bit khack if you haven't got much power on tap. Not an issue with the 540.

I drive a mixture of town and motorway and get 21 mpg (in economy mode) - and I don't spare the horses on the motorway so could probably get significantly better fuel consumption if I stuck to 70. Above about 50 mph, the torque convertor "locks up" to avoid the 10% economy loss that is otherwise inherent in autoboxes.

I gather that by now, the Nika/Alu thing isn't an issue as UK petrol is now low sulphur so if there was going to be a problem then it would have happened already.

If you do get the 540iA then I'd get the oil and filter replaced in the autobox. This might be simply a waste of money - it is supposed to be lifetime fill -but I had it done and it helped me sleep better at night (the main reason I had this done was that used to have the infamous whine when the box was cold and getting new oil/filter sorted this out - though the ATF level might simply have been too low!).

On my 540, I've had a water pump break and also the radiator break (both near 130,000 miles) - these were the only things that really could have been show stoppers (luckily, both happened near enough home to limp back). But then again it seems that all the E34s have a weak spot around the cooling system.

So basically I'd give the 540iA the thumbs up, but bear in mind I've never driven a 535.

[e34.535i.sport]

Mixed opinions as I expected! My heart tells me to go and get it but the head says otherwise. Financially I'd be better sticking with the old faithful, but here's the link to the dream motor! -

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/429095.htm

It's a fair distance away from where I am so if I were going for a test drive I'd have to be serious about taking it.

Anyone have an estimate to what my car is worth?
Its 535iM 154k miles,
Paintwork 9/10,
Mechanically 9/10 once clutch is done (needs control arm bush otherwise 10/10),
Tires almost brand new on 18" rims,
MOT + 11month tax,
EAT chip,
Full black leather 9/10,
OBC,
All the usual extras,
Comprehensive service history up to 125k miles (BMW and specialist)- then serviced regularly thereafter...

Here's what I've done since I've had it:

o BMW Rear Subframe Bushes (147,000)
o Leather Seat Upgrade (147,000)
o Fuel Line repair (148,000)
o Rear Sway-bar Links (150,000)
o Rear Brake Pads/Discs (150,000)
o Rear Pitman Arms (150,000)
o Front Sway-bar Links (151,000)
o Lower Control Arm – Balljoints + Bushes (151,000)
o Track Rods [Whole Assemblies] (151,000)
o Front Brake Discs/Pads (151,000)
o Thrust Arms – Balljoints + Bushes (152,000)
o Water Hoses (152,000)
o Aluminium Hub Rings (152,000)
o BMW Rear Shock Mountings
(152,000)
o BMW Drivebelts (x2) (153,000)
o BMW Drivebelt Tensioner (alternator) (153,000)
o Handbrake Adjustment (153,000)
o Exhaust Backbox Mounting (153,000)
o Thrust Arm (whole n/side) (154,000)
o Thermostat (154,000)
o Water Pump (154,000)
o Fuel Lines & Brackets replaced [Tank overflow lines front & back]
(154,000)
o Paint touch-up [official BMW paint stick & Laquer] (154,000)
o E.A.T Chip Fitted (154,000)
o ICV cleaned with Carburettor cleaner (154,000)
o New Clutch (whole kit) (154,000)
o Guibo (154,000)
o Transmission Rubber Mounts (154,000)

I like to keep a record, good job I don't keep track of how much it all costs but I do have invoices for parts etc... too scared to look! (At least it was mainly free labour!)

[pingu]

According to the advert, it's had a new windscreen. Unless a proper main dealer BMW bodyshop replaced the windscreen, I'd walk away straight away.

In my experience, the standard glass windscreen bodgers scratch everything to **** and you won't see the rust until it eats away, from underneath the windscreen rubber, a year or two (if you're lucky?) later.

When I bought my 540 this happened to me (alas the rust only appeared a short time after I'd bought the car). Next time, if it's not got BMW glass then I'll run away.

[bcohoon]

You're nuts to let it go... after all that work? and 9/10 mechanical, 9/10 interior, 9/10 paint? Keep it!

[pingu]

+1

[leicesterboy15]

I went through exactly the same dilemma as you and finally decided to go for the 540i from my 535i sport but my reasons were different. I needed an estate so this was the natural choice for me and I had owned one briefly and loved it. Its true what everyone is saying about DIY on the M60, its a pain, half the engine disappears into the bulk head and there is NO room in the engine bay so it makes things a nightmare. This is why maintenance is more expensive, I don't find that parts are that much more and a few teething problems aside its pretty reliable but the labour is more for things and its harder to do yourself. In terms of the autobox I haven't had any problems with mine although I think my torque converter is on the way out. Engine wise I've had the usual problems - PCV Plate, rocker cover gaskets, radiator but thats it (touch wood!)

In terms of driving though they are a completely different animal. I found the 535i really chuckable and very satisfying on the twisty stuff but the engine (as reliable as it is and as easy to work on as it is) was lacking for such a big size (due to its old design I would imagine - exactly what makes it easy to work on) so there were flat spots and it wasn't as responsive, other 535s I drove were the same so it wasn't just mine. The 540i is quick in a straight line and it is good round the bends but not as satisfying as the 535iS which is one thing you are overlooking, the 'Sport' bit makes a big difference in terms of handling, its much better and much nicer to drive. But then when you floor the 540i in sport mode its just superb, no flat spots, as smooth as you like and it wipes the floor with most cars. With the 535i you need to decide what kind of day it is before you 'challenge' someone, with the 540 you just plant your foot and you know you're gonna have a big smile on your face. Around town its really relaxed and really smooth, in Adaptive mode it looks after itself and is so smooth.

So I guess if you like throwing the car around I would keep the 535i sport, also when I picked up my 540i I got a sinking feeling on the way home that I had just plunged the best part of 2k into a car that was almost the same as the old one! But I don't get a chance to throw cars around much these days - I'm too busy looking for speed cameras and looking at the MPG Gauge. And my commute doesn't allow me to and they don't do a 535i touring it so for me the 540i is superb, I don't regret it one bit, there are things I would like to carry over like the suspension and *possibly* the manual box (most of the time I love the auto, sometimes I hate it) but for me the 540i is the best. Fuel wise its actually more economical but thats like saying Cameron Diaz is better looking than Penelope Cruz, she is but you wouldn't say either was ugly, just like neither of these cars are frugal. How about this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-540-6-SPEED-MANUAL-SUPERB-CONDITION-E34-M5-V8-LOOK_W0QQitemZ150238562637QQcmdZViewItem

I know its got more miles but maintained properly it might be alright. £3500 is very high, it would need to be REALLY special for that, £2500 is more realistic, maybe even less. Again, its not a sport though.

Something else you may want to investigate - if the engine is Nikasil, I've heard that BMW replace the engine for free if its got less that 100k, even now so this may be worth looking into.

If I was you and you don't NEED to upgrade, I wouldn't bother, especially if money is a concern and you've already done all the maintenance on yours.

**I've just read the add again, it says MTech suspension so the same as yours which is great! But I would get it confirmed first, a lot of people say this thinking nobody will check or know any better.

[leicesterboy15]

According to the advert, it's had a new windscreen. Unless a proper main dealer BMW bodyshop replaced the windscreen, I'd walk away straight away.

In my experience, the standard glass windscreen bodgers scratch everything to **** and you won't see the rust until it eats away, from underneath the windscreen rubber, a year or two (if you're lucky?) later.

When I bought my 540 this happened to me (alas the rust only appeared a short time after I'd bought the car). Next time, if it's not got BMW glass then I'll run away.

I had a new windscreen in my old 535 fitted by autoglass and it leaked if I got it jet washed and I could hear the wind through the gap on the motorway. Autoglass replaced with a new one for free, I never had any problems after that.

[Paul in NZ]

but the engine (as reliable as it is and as easy to work on as it is) was lacking for such a big size (due to its old design I would imagine - exactly what makes it easy to work on) so there were flat spots and it wasn't as responsive, other 535s I drove were the same so it wasn't just mine

well i say NOT..the 535 doesnt have the torque of the 540 without a doubt,and it is a little soft just of idle but apart from that the power and torque on mine is very linear ,with a noticeable lunge at 3500rpm.

[e34.535i.sport]

In terms of driving though they are a completely different animal. I found the 535i really chuckable and very satisfying on the twisty stuff but the engine (as reliable as it is and as easy to work on as it is) was lacking for such a big size (due to its old design I would imagine - exactly what makes it easy to work on) so there were flat spots and it wasn't as responsive, other 535s I drove were the same so it wasn't just mine. The 540i is quick in a straight line and it is good round the bends but not as satisfying as the 535iS which is one thing you are overlooking, the 'Sport' bit makes a big difference in terms of handling, its much better and much nicer to drive. But then when you floor the 540i in sport mode its just superb, no flat spots, as smooth as you like and it wipes the floor with most cars. With the 535i you need to decide what kind of day it is before you 'challenge' someone, with the 540 you just plant your foot and you know you're gonna have a big smile on your face. Around town its really relaxed and really smooth, in Adaptive mode it looks after itself and is so smooth.


You took the words right out of my mouth! That is exactly what I'm talking about, its just that straight line speed that amazes me... The auto just makes it seem so effortless too thats what I like about it. I'm not into throwing the car around corners (memories of being underneath changing various bushes kills the moment for me!)... I prefer speed in a straight line. I know people will argue get a different car then, but that's not going to happen. The e34 is the best looking car ever built if you ask me, it can't be beat.

After the other day's little episode I am seriously tempted to start looking. Seems like a sign, I don't know.

That car on the link looks like something I could live with, but that price is ridiculous. I'll wait, and if the right one comes up I'll take it.