Engine Super Hot after V belt renewal

[Mordan]

Hi,
I changed the spark plugs and the 2 V belts.

I drove a little and didn't pay attention to the water temp gauge. after 10 mins and a long slope, I look at it and it is in the red. (no lights or diode for letting me know??? )

I get off the road and stop the engine. I was told afterwards, I should have let the engine running and bring the heating to the maximum. any input on what to do when engine goes really high in temp?

The water level in the expansion tank is very very low. Here is what it looks like. Some water was leaking when I stopped the engine.

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_may_4_1.jpg.jpg

to come back home, I drove down the slope with the engine shut like a stupid noob. it was really hard to steer and brake. I restarted the engine because all of a sudden the brakes would not work anymore.

I got home all right and the only visible damage is this

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_may_4_2.jpg.jpg

nothing serious on this picture?

anyways I think I will change the water pump and maybe the radiator. I was told the water pump sucks on the M40 and could create havoc. How do you test your water pump?

EDIT: does this makes sense?: if the water pump is faulty, the water never gets hot and therefore the temp gauge always stays blue?

[anonymous1]

Hi,

The temp gauge will be showing you the engine temp, rather than the coolant temp so will still move into the red when the coolant is not being pumped. Have you checked to make sure the belts are on correctly and turning the water pump wheel as they should be? If this is all working, then I would look at changing the water pump - seems they are notoriously bad.

Here is a link to the procedure:
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37409&highlight=water+pump

Make sure you keep an eye on the temp even after doing this in case something further has been damaged in the overheat. (Hopefully it won't have been).

May also be worth looking into changing the thermostat, hoses and the fan clutch if you are not sure on the vehicle history while your there, as you'll have access to them during this job.

HTH

[Mordan]

Here is a link to the procedure:
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37409&highlight=water+pump


HTH

thx for the link. really good one. I will see tomorrow. and recheck the belt

can you check the impeller of a water pump or is it hidden?

I wanna buy this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-530-530D-535-540-E39-BRAKE-DISCS-BREMBO-PADS-298-R_W0QQitemZ230229823525QQihZ013QQcategoryZ10374QQc mdZViewItem

but don't want to be ripped off with a plastic one.

as for the belt, the only itching thing is that the alternator is not perfectly in line. therefore the belt is a bit twisted

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_belt_twisted.jpg

I checked the belts while running idle and everything is fine. clean sounds.
cheers

[Dave M]

thx for the link. really good one. I will see tomorrow. and recheck the belt

can you check the impeller of a water pump or is it hidden?

I wanna buy this one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-530-530D-535-540-E39-BRAKE-DISCS-BREMBO-PADS-298-R_W0QQitemZ230229823525QQihZ013QQcategoryZ10374QQc mdZViewItem

but don't want to be ripped off with a plastic one.

cheers

The impeller end is, for good reason, within the engine. I would stay away from ebay stuff unless you can verify it is in fact a good brand. Metal impeller is important, but not the only thing to look for. Someone here may know who makes a good one for the M40.

Hopefully, you haven't overcooked the headgasket or cylinder head. Do the pump and you'll soon see whether you need more work.

Dave

[e34.535i.sport]

FirstLine brand says the pic. water pump from dealer is 120 euros VAT included. This one is the third of the price. My question was if the seller tells me it is a metal impeller, can I check it when I recieve it?

what's supposed to happen if the headgasket or cylinder head is cooked? Can I still drive a few miles?

Yes you will beabletosee the impeller it should be on the outside so you'll know if its plastic or metal!

If you've done more damage you should look for coolant loss, milkshake on the oil filler cap, oil in the coolant and really rough running when first starting up. You'll be fine hopefully, mine overheated recently and I haven't had any further symptoms. Keep an eye on the temp guage - you don't want it happening again...

[Mordan]

The impeller end is, for good reason, within the engine. I would stay away from ebay stuff unless you can verify it is in fact a good brand. Metal impeller is important, but not the only thing to look for. Someone here may know who makes a good one for the M40.

Hopefully, you haven't overcooked the headgasket or cylinder head. Do the pump and you'll soon see whether you need more work.

Dave

FirstLine brand says the pic. water pump from dealer is 120 euros VAT included. This one is the third of the price. My question was if the seller tells me it is a metal impeller, can I check it when I recieve it?

what's supposed to happen if the headgasket or cylinder head is cooked? Can I still drive a few miles?

[e34.535i.sport]

as for the belt, the only itching thing is that the alternator is not perfectly in line. therefore the belt is a bit twisted

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_belt_twisted.jpg

I checked the belts while running idle and everything is fine. clean sounds.
cheers

Looking at that picture the belt does seem like its on at an angle... I'm sure that's not right. Do you have a picture of where the belt is sitting on the other pulley? Perhaps its not on the correct rail? I'm not familiar with the m40 but if its similar to the m30 set up there are two places the belt can go on - one makes it 'wonky' and one lies straight.

If all belts/pulleys are working ok (and assuming water pump impeller is still in one piece), the overheating suggests that the thermostat got stuck closed... There's an easy way to check: Run the car to operating temp and if the top radiator hose doesn't get hot then your thermostat's goosed.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.

[Dave M]

FirstLine brand says the pic. water pump from dealer is 120 euros VAT included. This one is the third of the price. My question was if the seller tells me it is a metal impeller, can I check it when I recieve it?

what's supposed to happen if the headgasket or cylinder head is cooked? Can I still drive a few miles?

Ahhh, misunderstood you. The impeller in the auction pic is metal (plastic impellers are generally black). Whether its metal when it gets to you is another thing.

Dave

[Mordan]

Looking at that picture the belt does seem like its on at an angle... I'm sure that's not right. Do you have a picture of where the belt is sitting on the other pulley? Perhaps its not on the correct rail? I'm not familiar with the m40 but if its similar to the m30 set up there are two places the belt can go on - one makes it 'wonky' and one lies straight.

If all belts/pulleys are working ok (and assuming water pump impeller is still in one piece), the overheating suggests that the thermostat got stuck closed... There's an easy way to check: Run the car to operating temp and if the top radiator hose doesn't get hot then your thermostat's goosed.

Good luck - let us know how you get on.

it is night here. will do that tomorrow. I will let you know.

if the impeller is destroyed, should I see debris when I drain the coolant? now that I think of it, just a minute before seeing the gauge red, I heard tap tap tap tap tap during 10 seconds at 60 miles per hour then it disappear. I thought this must be the 'tappets' which I heard where sometimes making a sound on the M40. then the sound disappeared and I thought "I'm lucky". then again I never heard this sound before and never heard what the 'tappets' sound like. :D
anyways a minute after I saw the temp gauge lol. but i'm not sure when the gauge went up, because there is no bloody alarm. the light didn't even light up. does yours light up? *rant: there should be a sound alarm!!!

[Mordan]

to be complete, the only other thing I saw today after the over heating is the liquid out of the ventilation valve. is it boiling oil? why on the transmission?

#7
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HA11&mospid=47367&btnr=23_0234&hg=23&fg=15


http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_may_4_2.jpg.jpg

[e34.535i.sport]

it is night here. will do that tomorrow. I will let you know.

if the impeller is destroyed, should I see debris when I drain the coolant? now that I think of it, just a minute before seeing the gauge red, I heard tap tap tap tap tap during 10 seconds at 60 miles per hour then it disappear. I thought this must be the 'tappets' which I heard where sometimes making a sound on the M40. then the sound disappeared and I thought "I'm lucky". then again I never heard this sound before and never heard what the 'tappets' sound like. :D
anyways a minute after I saw the temp gauge lol. but i'm not sure when the gauge went up, because there is no bloody alarm. the light didn't even light up. does yours light up? *rant: there should be a sound alarm!!!

I totally agree on the alarm... It should gong once the engine temp gets to 3/4 I think. It does gong once the coolant gets to a certain temp because mine did it, but by that time the engine is even hotter.

Anyway it could have been the water pump, best way to check is to run the car and just watch the temp guage. If it goes past 12o'clock then just shut it off. Check the upper and other radiator hoses to check coolant is flowing.

I'd probably change water pump/thermostat/coolant and maybe the fan clutch all in one go as its easy to do and not too expensive for peice of mind. You've got the link above on how to do it. The guy who wrote that sounds like a pro. ;)

Do a search for water pump - I've saw threads where the impeller's broken before so they will give you an indication of what you'll find when you ge the old one off.

Good luck mate, hope you get it sorted.

[Mordan]

I totally agree on the alarm... It should gong once the engine temp gets to 3/4 I think. It does gong once the coolant gets to a certain temp because mine did it, but by that time the engine is even hotter.

Anyway it could have been the water pump, best way to check is to run the car and just watch the temp guage. If it goes past 12o'clock then just shut it off. Check the upper and other radiator hoses to check coolant is flowing.

I'd probably change water pump/thermostat/coolant and maybe the fan clutch all in one go as its easy to do and not too expensive for peice of mind. You've got the link above on how to do it. The guy who wrote that sounds like a pro. ;)

Do a search for water pump - I've saw threads where the impeller's broken before so they will give you an indication of what you'll find when you ge the old one off.

Good luck mate, hope you get it sorted.

here is the pulley of the water pump. everything looks fine. everyone who saw the belt says it is not straight. When removing the belt, I did move the fan a little on its axle. (i did not remove it)

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_belt_water_pump.jpg

I did a refill of coolant, and after 2 mins driving, temp gauge is red again.

the top hose was really hot but not immediately after i stopped the car, so I guess the thermostat is so so ok.

one side note: I did put the heating max hot this time. but the heating did not work, air is cold even though I asked for hot air.

i guess that's what I will have to do. new water pump and termo. and new radiator while I'm at it. damn.

i'm pissed off I don't understand what went wrong. are you sure the new spark plugs change has nothing to do with increased engine power ;)?

well I'm learning the hard way, like most of us.

thx for your help

[bsell]

here is the pulley of the water pump. everything looks fine. everyone who saw the belt says it is not straight.

...the top hose was really hot but not immediately after i stopped the car, so I guess the thermostat is so so ok.

one side note: I did put the heating max hot this time. but the heating did not work, air is cold even though I asked for hot air.

i guess that's what I will have to do. new water pump and termo. and new radiator while I'm at it. damn.

i'm pissed off I don't understand what went wrong. are you sure the new spark plugs change has nothing to do with increased engine power ;)?

well I'm learning the hard way, like most of us.

thx for your help

So the belt looked funny after the change? Add in a hot upper hose (good thermostat) with the cold bottom hose and no heat inside= no pumpy the watery...:(

Could this be a case of coincidental water pump self-failure during a belt change? The pulley (and belt) looking funny makes me wonder if the bearing went south without ruining the seal's integrity...

Either way, you won't know for sure until you pull the water pump and see how it looks.

I doubt putting more thermal load on the engine would work the pump any harder. I could see taking the thermostat out of its comfort zone (old t-stat) might hasten its demise but not the pump.

Brian

[e34.535i.sport]

here is the pulley of the water pump. everything looks fine. everyone who saw the belt says it is not straight. When removing the belt, I did move the fan a little on its axle. (i did not remove it)

http://www.mordan.biz/bmw/bmw_e34_belt_water_pump.jpg

one side note: I did put the heating max hot this time. but the heating did not work, air is cold even though I asked for hot air.


If your getting cold air when asking for hot you may need to bleed the system for air... The procedure is on here in detail.

I don't think the fan should move laterally - perhaps the water pump pulley has some play in the bearing putting it on an angle... If you change out all of those parts at least you will have peice of mind.

I think i'm looking at a new radiator shortly too unfortunately, gonna set me back about £130 if i'm lucky.

[Mordan]

So the belt looked funny after the change? Add in a hot upper hose (good thermostat) with the cold bottom hose and no heat inside= no pumpy the watery...:(

Could this be a case of coincidental water pump self-failure during a belt change? The pulley (and belt) looking funny makes me wonder if the bearing went south without ruining the seal's integrity...

Either way, you won't know for sure until you pull the water pump and see how it looks.

I doubt putting more thermal load on the engine would work the pump any harder. I could see taking the thermostat out of its comfort zone (old t-stat) might hasten its demise but not the pump.

Brian

took the car to a mechanic in my village. he put 2 liters of source water in the expansion tank. he played with the accelerator for awhile. expansion tank cap removed. no heating on the temp gauge. it stayed steady at 12 o'clock. the reason why still eludes me.

he says:
-belt not correctly aligned. water pump pulley too big and too far away from the engine. maybe water pump not the right one for the engine. (could that be possible???)
-car without service book. he guesses the water pump failed and engine seriously overheated. cylinder head gasket certainly damaged. cylinder head might be damaged as well. water in expansion tank gets compression ripple back from the engine. reason why the enflated radiator is leaking near the top hose. can also be felt when running the engine with the oil cap removed. air pulsating out.
-he adviced me buying a new motor if the cylinder head is damaged.

what do you think? I certainly won't buy a new radiator until I fix the engine.

[e34.535i.sport]

took the car to a mechanic in my village. he put 2 liters of source water in the expansion tank. he played with the accelerator for awhile. expansion tank cap removed. no heating on the temp gauge. it stayed steady at 12 o'clock. the reason why still eludes me.

he says:
-belt not correctly aligned. water pump pulley too big and too far away from the engine. maybe water pump not the right one for the engine. (could that be possible???)
-car without service book. he guesses the water pump failed and engine seriously overheated. cylinder head gasket certainly damaged. cylinder head might be damaged as well. water in expansion tank gets compression ripple back from the engine. reason why the enflated radiator is leaking near the top hose. can also be felt when running the engine with the oil cap removed. air pulsating out.
-he adviced me buying a new motor if the cylinder head is damaged.

what do you think? I certainly won't buy a new radiator until I fix the engine.

Thats **** mate you have my sincere condolences, how long have you had the car?

If the PO put the wrong pump on it then what a twat. It must be very similar if it fits though, maybe it just protrudes a tad too much outting the belt off alignment. This would put strain on the water pump bearing and would explain the failure I suppose.

I'm not really in the know about the head damage so someone else may better advise but you should probably get a compression guage and test the compression on each cylinder. If it's just the gasket you could maybe do it yourself?

If the head is goosed you could always buy one second hand... They are obtainable...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/bmw-cylinder-head-E30-E36-E34-316-318-518-M40-engine_W0QQitemZ250244867634QQihZ015QQcategoryZ103 74QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Good luck, hope you get it sorted...

[Mordan]

Thats **** mate you have my sincere condolences, how long have you had the car?

If the PO put the wrong pump on it then what a twat. It must be very similar if it fits though, maybe it just protrudes a tad too much outting the belt off alignment. This would put strain on the water pump bearing and would explain the failure I suppose.

I'm not really in the know about the head damage so someone else may better advise but you should probably get a compression guage and test the compression on each cylinder. If it's just the gasket you could maybe do it yourself?

If the head is goosed you could always buy one second hand... They are obtainable...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/bmw-cylinder-head-E30-E36-E34-316-318-518-M40-engine_W0QQitemZ250244867634QQihZ015QQcategoryZ103 74QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Good luck, hope you get it sorted...


thx for link. unbelievable. a head and its housing for 70 quids... I wonder if he can ship it to Belgium LOL. I don't think my grandma would be happy receiving THAT by mail :)

got this car for one month. my cousin wants to learn and has a garage so we are planning to do an engine check and overhaul. If it is only the gasket, it should not be that difficult I reckon. I hope the head is fine. We will test the cylinder head in a special oven for cracks. only then I will buy a new pump, thermo and radiator. Yes the M40 is small guy, but still this little bastard deserves it.

so now I wanna buy a new E34, while waiting for this one being repaired. I found this one. http://fr.autoscout.be/Details.aspx?id=132322815
I like the picture of the engine. very few people show a pic of the engine here in Belgium.

cheers mate