Roll bars

[healtoeit]

Yes, I know this sounds ridiculous but I auto cross and track my car enough that I think I might be needing one. I never carry more then one other passenger, so the rear seat does not matter. I am also thinking of getting racing seats w/ harnesses. Anyone know if I should go for 4 or 5 point? I have seen track crashes, and I have seen how the roll cages have saved lives. I am getting faster, and starting to really push my car to it's limits. Lastly this is NOT at all about the look aspect of the car. This would be a full function roll cage for the safety of the driver and passenger.
Just wanted some input from others about if this is a good or bad idea.

Here is the company I would use

http://www.pipermotorsport.com/moredetail.asp?id=118

Thankx

[Ross]

A roll cage is a good idea and will stiffen the car also. It will also simultaneously destroy the resale value as a street car.

[healtoeit]

It will also simultaneously destroy the resale value as a street car.
To be honest the only way this thing is leaving me is if I crash it. Resale value means nothing to me. Good point though.
How much do you know about the metal plate between the trunk and the rear passenger seats? Can I take it out? Would that compromise anything?

[Tiger]

That is structural metal... you will severely compromise the car if removed.

[healtoeit]

That is structural metal... you will severely compromise the car if removed.
If I had the roll cage incorporate an X bar into that part would that work? I'm not talking about taking the shelf out, only the metal b/t the trunk and rear passenger. The thing seems like it weighs a ton, that is the only reason why i'm thinking of removing it.

[Tiger]

I don't think a roll cage will sufficiently support what you want to cut out. You have to understand the dynamic of the suspension on the body... Look at the front suspension... what is preventng the strut assembly twisting?... You may not realize it, but your engine is also acting like a support. A strut brace on the top will help make it more rigid for serious racer.

You need to consult fellow racer who has mechanical engineer degree to determine what is acceptable. You think those car will pass through rear seat has no support? No, not so, there are extra metal all around and the fold seat back has integral strength

If you do want to remove it regardless, you have to replace it with another type of support... such as tubular crossbracing.

[Sam-Son]

I want one that just runs alont the B pillar with a cross bar to fasten the harness to I would still be able to use the back seats
And I couldnt care less about resale value.....cus there isnt any In my case;)

[Ross]

The engine rests in rubber mounts and is not a stressed member of the chassis.
I would leave the sheet metal between the trunk and rear seat. I'm sure it adds rigidity but is also a nice barrier between you and the fuel tank. Perforating it for a roll cage shouldn't hurt. That piece weighs less than the sound deadener it the car.

[healtoeit]

That piece weighs less than the sound deadener it the car.
The weight Issue was the only reason I was thinking of taking it out. I guess I can just take the sound deadening out for the track.


you have to replace it with another type of support... such as tubular crossbracing.

I would, but if what Ross says is true (which it usually is :D ) I'm not even going to mess with it

[healtoeit]

I want one that just runs along the B pillar with a cross bar to fasten the harness to I would still be able to use the back seats

I'm glad you said this, because I was thinking of doing it until I went to the race track (if you are not going to track the car this really does not apply). My class instructer scolded me for suggesting it and said something like this.
This is completely the WRONG thing to do!(note the exclamation point for added effect) A 4 or 5 point harness is supposed to keep you contained in the car in the event of a roll over. The roll cage is set up to keep the roof of the car from collapsing. In the event that you roll the car and you have the set up that you speak of, you can't duck under the dash. You could try and kiss your butt goodbye but the harness you put in would basically sign your death warrant.

[Sam-Son]

I'm glad you said this, because I was thinking of doing it until I went to the race track (if you are not going to track the car this really does not apply). My class instructer scolded me for suggesting it and said something like this.
This is completely the WRONG thing to do!(note the exclamation point for added effect) A 4 or 5 point harness is supposed to keep you contained in the car in the event of a roll over. The roll cage is set up to keep the roof of the car from collapsing. In the event that you roll the car and you have the set up that you speak of, you can't duck under the dash. You could try and kiss your butt goodbye but the harness you put in would basically sign your death warrant.
hmmm........dont have a crash

[healtoeit]

hmmm........dont have a crash
Then why get a roll cage? ;)
Let's hope it will never see any use if I do get it!

[Robin-535im]

... In the event that you roll the car and you have the set up that you speak of, you can't duck under the dash.
Curious what you mean by duck under the dash? I would think that a b-pillar-only roll bar would be a step above nothing at all in terms of avoiding getting squished. The harness (stock, 5-pt, whatever) is going to keep you in place no matter what so might as well have more strength to the roof - but maybe I misunderstand... not a racer myself.

[healtoeit]

Curious what you mean by duck under the dash?

I meant get your torso and head under the horizontal line that is made by the dashboard. That was a bad explanation on my part, hope that helps. Last ditch effort when you know your going down the drain. ;)


I would think that a b-pillar-only roll bar would be a step above nothing at all in terms of avoiding getting squished. The harness (stock, 5-pt, whatever) is going to keep you in place no matter what so might as well have more strength to the roof - but maybe I misunderstand... not a racer myself.
I think SAM was talking about a strait bar across the rear of the driver seats at about shoulder height, not a reinforcing roll bar under the B pillar, to hold the harness. What you are talking about is the system I am trying to get. Here is the company I am thinking of using, I work by them in the summer and have seen some of those cars, the fabrication is just amazing.

http://www.pipermotorsport.com/moredetail.asp?id=118

I'm thinking of getting the "Roll Bars"

the cage in the yellow EVO in those pics is what I am trying to get (although I think it might be a cage)

[Ross]

If you want an easy way to reduce weight take the front seats out, they must go 75# each.

[healtoeit]

If you want an easy way to reduce weight take the front seats out, they must go 75# each.
Is that for just the seat or is the the seat and the electric motor? I would think the motor would weigh a ton.

[Ross]

With all the motors and hoo-ha they are heavy, #75 is a guess but probably close.

[healtoeit]

With all the motors and hoo-ha they are heavy, #75 is a guess but probably close.
Thankx for the info! I'll look into it... I do have one question though... Does a seat with the holes for the harnesses in it effect safety at all? Are they more or just as safe as a seat w/o the harness holes?
Thankx

[Bruno]

I'm glad you said this, because I was thinking of doing it until I went to the race track (if you are not going to track the car this really does not apply). My class instructer scolded me for suggesting it and said something like this.
This is completely the WRONG thing to do!(note the exclamation point for added effect) A 4 or 5 point harness is supposed to keep you contained in the car in the event of a roll over. The roll cage is set up to keep the roof of the car from collapsing. In the event that you roll the car and you have the set up that you speak of, you can't duck under the dash. You could try and kiss your butt goodbye but the harness you put in would basically sign your death warrant.

You can run 1/2 a cage or a bolted cage with limited access to the rear seat.
You unbolt the parts you do not need when you are not on the track.
That is safe to use with racing seats and harness and will stiffen the car.

I designed and build my cage in my E36 race car... and it was intact after my crash.

[healtoeit]

You can run 1/2 a cage or a bolted cage with limited access to the rear seat.
You unbolt the parts you do not need when you are not on the track.
That is safe to use with racing seats and harness and will stiffen the car.

I designed and build my cage in my E36 race car... and it was intact after my crash.
interesting.... I'm not worried about the rear seat. If anything my car would be safer with out one, If only you knew my friends....
PM sent for more Info about pricing and so on....