Is there a CV joint on the end of my driveshaft?

[BigKriss]

I took my car to a shop today and the mechanic there said it could be the reason, for a knocking sound, under load on first gear takeoffs. He was saying the driveshaft has a cv joint connecting onto the differential. is this true?

either this is worn or the cv joints on the half-shafts are gone.

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/5315/cvjointcopyix8.jpg

[ryan roopnarine]

the variability is with whether or not you have a rubber disc or a u-joint to connect your transmission to your driveshaft. all e34s are going to have a cv joint as a connection to the differential.

[BigKriss]

thanks Ryan.

there is no coupling (guibo) on it and I replaced the center bearing about 10,000kms ago. does this answer what you were saying. sorry i didn't understand accurately what you meant by this

"the variability is with whether or not you have a rubber disc or a u-joint to connect your transmission to your driveshaft."

..but I assumed on my driveshaft (number 2), the first part has a universal joint connecting to the gearbox and the cv joint on the other end connects to the differential.

[healtoeit]

I took my car to a shop today and the mechanic there said it could be the reason, for a knocking sound, under load on first gear takeoffs.
Another reason could be the rear sub frame mounts, what your describing is a symptom

I would think your car has a guibo, most e34s came with them
it is easy to tell, just crawl under the car.

[BigKriss]

the subframe mounts are fine. I accelerate from standstill in first gear over 30% throttle and there is a knocking sound coming somewhere from the middle / rear of the car, it only happens in first gear taking off from standstill.

If my car has a guibo, why isn't it on the realoem.com diagram? no m20 or m30 autos came with guibos.

[healtoeit]

If my car has a guibo, why isn't it on the realoem.com diagram? no m20 or m30 autos came with guibos.
aaaa! I thought you had a clutch sry man!

I don't know why realoem does not have it.

[BigKriss]

no worries mate :)


aaaa! I thought you had a clutch sry man!

I don't know why realoem does not have it.

[pingu]

I'm under the impression that all of these driveshafts have a CV joint to the diff and that they also all have a u-joint in the middle of the driveshaft. Some also have a guibo (the manual gearboxes?).

[Rus]

When you replaced the center support bearing, did you preload it properly? If not, it may be worn already. Knocking at low speeds coming from the center of the car is generally indicative of driveshaft problems such as worn u-joints (you have two by the transmission) or a worn center support bearing. Before I replaced my driveshaft, my front u-joint gave an audible click when the shaft was rotated. Found this by raising the car and spinning the rear wheels. Shaft moved-click produced-traced to u-joint. A lot of play will sound like a clunk. HTH

[Elekta]

When you replaced the center support bearing, did you preload it properly? If not, it may be worn already. Knocking at low speeds coming from the center of the car is generally indicative of driveshaft problems such as worn u-joints (you have two by the transmission) or a worn center support bearing. Before I replaced my driveshaft, my front u-joint gave an audible click when the shaft was rotated. Found this by raising the car and spinning the rear wheels. Shaft moved-click produced-traced to u-joint. A lot of play will sound like a clunk. HTH

Do you have to replace the drive shaft or can you rebuild the ujoint and replace the center support bearing.

I have the same knocking, and it's low rpms in 1st and 2nd and it sounds as if it's coming from under the cell phone rectangle by the hand brake. Should you stop driving the car immediately? Can you baby it, at least until the parts come in?

[BigKriss]

sorry Rus. I don't know how to "pre-load" the center bearing. I just took the old one off and attached the new one and then put the driveshaft back. I'm almost certain the center bearing is still good though.

Edit : I know when my old center bearing was worn, there would be knocking at any speed, these days it only when taking off, under load.


When you replaced the center support bearing, did you preload it properly? If not, it may be worn already. Knocking at low speeds coming from the center of the car is generally indicative of driveshaft problems such as worn u-joints (you have two by the transmission) or a worn center support bearing. Before I replaced my driveshaft, my front u-joint gave an audible click when the shaft was rotated. Found this by raising the car and spinning the rear wheels. Shaft moved-click produced-traced to u-joint. A lot of play will sound like a clunk. HTH

[Elekta]

Sound like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/bmw/elekta/th_M5Audio002.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/bmw/elekta/?action=view&current=M5Audio002.flv)

I made this today. So which is it? Center bearing or something else? Only knocks at low rpm under load.

[attack eagle]

that sounds like a center bearing that has puked it's guts.

Geoff there is a place in San Antonio that sells rebuilt shafts... that uses origianl style staked joints. non serviceable but they don't NEED the constant service that a serviceable one does...
http://www.thrashdriveshaft.com/import2.htm#BMW%20DRIVESHAFTS

Thing with these things is , you can't replace the u joints yourself... you could maybe replace the CV, and to get the CSB out you have to split the shaft and use a press to get the new one on. By the time you do all of that you still have wornout notchy U joints causing vibration... and most shops don't ahve the fixture to phase or balance a Bmw DS anyway. So you might as well buy the rebuild for under $400 and be good for another 100 -150k.


I'm probably going to get one from there when I get ready to swap to a lower mile zf310 this summer... especially since the core is only $60. I might decide to keep my old front shaft and make a bastard shaft for the 4.10 LSD + manual if I ever decide to track the car.

http://www.thrashdriveshaft.com/BMW%20w-CV.jpg
You order, they send you the complete shaft already assembled and balanced, you install and send the old one back... win win... and they aren't RIDICULOUSLY PRICED like OEM/dealer.

While you are down there change the shifter bushings and rear mount (trans and shifter)... excessive slop can let the shifter (especially short shifters) contact the DS.

[Elekta]

Is it best to bring your old one to them so there is no mistaking a 5 speed shaft and a 6 speed overdrive shaft...or a 92 M5 shaft with the last year 95 M5 shaft. I don't want to end up with a US spec 3.6 5 speed shaft because they can't find my euro spec 3.8 6 speed shaft.

have you ever seen this site?
http://bmwfans.info/original/ you put in my VIN BL01908 and you can see my shaft in there. It's more functional than RealOEM and it's UK based.

Some of the guys on the m5board suggest replacing the center bearing, but I agree with you that it may end up being a partial repair, and with the labor prices, no one can afford to do anything twice. I do have serious reservations about rebuilt shafts, as I have heard nothing but horror stories about unbalanced **** messing up a whole lot more after the fact. Are you confident in this out fit? The site looks pretty straight up. Will they even know about my car and how serious collectors will be about non-oem work being done on it? I am seriously leaning toward this repair and need to be dead on in who does what with what on my Elekta.

main thing is I can't really drive the car now because I can't afford to brake anything. Yikes! I have two boxes of stuff I was going to put on the car that will have to wait now. I think I am about to drop about $7k on my two little 4 wheeled friends. If my tourer goes in the shop, I have to have the vintage air put in the 57 first.

thanks AE...we need to catch up some more about who should be doing the work on my Elekta....trust is truly a 4 letter word

geoff

[attack eagle]

they have received ALL positive reviews on every board I researched them on. Including Strictly Ea who have local members and bimmerboard.
I looked at a couple of other shops that used serviceable parts, but found some negatives...

IF you have a second car, you can drop the exhaust and shield and check it to see how bad it is and what it is. if it is just the CSB it isn't that bad a job and they are not expensive... just need new nuts for both ends of the DS.

make sure the DS is marked clearly before you split it so the machine shop can press the new one on and you can reassemble it. IF that is all it is you can replace it in a day.

[BigKriss]

My mechanic suggested that I swap the half-shafts around 180 degrees and after regreasing them, put them in. that means the wear on the cv joint will be on the opposite direction and they will last a lot longer. is this correct?

and new half shafts cost about usd$400 each from bma.

[Elekta]

what I don't want to do is duplicate labor as I have no time to wrench myself. I'd rather pay $400 for a rebuilt shaft and do a swap out with new guilbo, rear sub bushings and mounts, then pay to look at the csb and take a chance on a 75k mile DS.

[Rus]

@ BigKriss:

Preloading the center bearing is accomplished by sliding the metal frame of the bearing forward about 5 mm. This is explained and shown in the Bentley manual. I've replaced the center bearing before without preloading and by the time I replaced the driveshaft (about 10K miles), the bearing had lots of freeplay in it, though it didn't knock.
Swapping your driveshaft halves 180 degrees will most likely throw the shaft out of balance. If it were me, I would not do that. If your u-joints are worn, you won't save them by rotating the shaft halves.

@ Elekta:
I used Thrash Driveline for my rebuilt driveshaft and they were a pleasure to deal with. My only complaint was with the paper gasket for the CV joint that was included. Mine was bent and broken. Luckily, my old one was in good condition and swapped right over. In my case, they had the right shaft and matched it based on VIN number and car info. In your case, you may be better off giving them your old shaft for an exact match or for them to rebuild.

Hope this helps.

[Jeff N.]

Hi Kris, try this:

check your halfshafts by:

- put the car in gear, wheel up
- carefully roll the tire fore /aft
- you should have no play between the wheel and the tranny flange
- if you do, it's quite possible you have worn half shafts
- track time killed mine, they my have killed yours to
- order replacement CVs and install, much cheaper than rebuild shafts

On the drive shaft:
- yes, you should have a CV on the end
- you can order a new part if you need to replace, cheaper than a rebuild driveline
- i doubt it would cause any noise
- it might cause a vibration

My bet, bad CV's in your halfshafts. You'll need to pull the them to inspect after the wheel test.

[BigKriss]

Thanks for your suggestions Jeff.

Rus - I was talking swapping around the half-shafts, not the driveshaft.

[Elekta]

Shaft came out today and sent off to Arizona, to a shaft rebuilder who only rebuild's bmw shafts. I'll send along the name when I get it. I think he called it Bear or Bayer, I can't remember.

This is a new indy for me, and they have been rebuilding M6's for the last year and are up to speed with M motors and an e39 was the newest car in the shop. Bunch of 840's, and late model 7's. Most were e34's, 6 series, and evo M3's and a couple tricked e28s. He's done a lot of sls removal, but respects those who like to keep them. Shop is very clean and most all of the staff were in a good mood, which is heartening. They have a floating hourly which is good.

They have priced most jobs, so I won't be paying $100 for each hour which is what I had at the last place..in spite of their excellent work, I can't afford that kind of treatment. Still a little nervous dropping the car off. I felt a lot better when they called an hour later to say the shaft was off to Fed Ex. (it's nice to know when they say they'll get right on it, that they actually do.)

eye eeeeeee

[attack eagle]

Glad to hear that you are feeling only 'SLIGHTLY' nervy.

[BigKriss]

so can I swap the halfshats around?. will that fix it?

[Elekta]

Glad to hear that you are feeling only 'SLIGHTLY' nervy.
Well it was a spotless shop, no junk inside. The yard was high fenced with razor wire and a good gate. The office was decently appointed but the couch was beat and probably was new at the owners house, which tells me their priorities are in order...big hit was a 750 block coffee table.

Thinking about taking the wheels to get refurbed if they can put it up on jacks safe somewhere while we wait.

[Jeff N.]

Reverses the load faces in the bearings. If the current races are worn, they are worn in the current direction of load (twist). When you swap shafts from side to to side, the load is now on the other side of the bearing.

This won't fix lash in a worn bearing. It can help for a little while by putting the load on a non-worn section of the bearing.


so can I swap the halfshats around?. will that fix it?

[Elekta]

http://beyermotorworks.com/ is the place my shaft went to

[BigKriss]

Thanks Jeff.


Reverses the load faces in the bearings. If the current races are worn, they are worn in the current direction of load (twist). When you swap shafts from side to to side, the load is now on the other side of the bearing.

This won't fix lash in a worn bearing. It can help for a little while by putting the load on a non-worn section of the bearing.

[mamilapon]

I dont even have a guibo at the end of my shaft (but the missus doesn't mind)

[BigKriss]

I was also told to take the dust boots of the CV joints and put new grease there, the mechanic said to use moly lube. Is this correct also?

[BigKriss]

Jeff is there a place to order replacement CVs. I rotated my halfshafts around and it didn;t help with anything :(


Hi Kris, try this:

check your halfshafts by:

- put the car in gear, wheel up
- carefully roll the tire fore /aft
- you should have no play between the wheel and the tranny flange
- if you do, it's quite possible you have worn half shafts
- track time killed mine, they my have killed yours to
- order replacement CVs and install, much cheaper than rebuild shafts

On the drive shaft:
- yes, you should have a CV on the end
- you can order a new part if you need to replace, cheaper than a rebuild driveline
- i doubt it would cause any noise
- it might cause a vibration

My bet, bad CV's in your halfshafts. You'll need to pull the them to inspect after the wheel test.

[Bill R.]

jeeze, took you long enough....



Jeff is there a place to order replacement CVs. I rotated my halfshafts around and it didn;t help with anything :(

[BigKriss]

I'm a busy man Bill :)


jeeze, took you long enough....

[billkirk]

I had a similar problem several years ago. It began with a clicking noise on left turns and over a few weeks became common under all acceleration. It sounded like a CV joint failing, which I've expecienced on two other cars I've owned. I bought a good used rear half-shaft from the wreckers and after installing it on one side, then the other without changing the noise I swapped my attention to the driveshaft center bearing area.

The problem wasn't with the drive-shaft. I replaced the rear engine/transmission mounts that had turned to rubber mush and the noise disappeared. The torque on the engine/transmission assembly under acceleration was letting the driveshaft droop and the universal joint was hitting against the heat shield between the driveshaft and exhaust system. Once I had replaced the two rubber mounts everything was being held in alignment as designed. From memory the mounts were about $20 each, much less than I paid for the used half-shaft.

I realise that this thread is very old, but in case someone with a similar issue happens to see this I thought my two-cents might be helpful.

Cheers from Sydney, Australia.

[BigKriss]

Hi mate, I have reaplced the transmission mounts and the centre bearing also so I know its not these two areas. I just have the cv joints to get to now. I will work it out somehow.


I had a similar problem several years ago. It began with a clicking noise on left turns and over a few weeks became common under all acceleration. It sounded like a CV joint failing, which I've expecienced on two other cars I've owned. I bought a good used rear half-shaft from the wreckers and after installing it on one side, then the other without changing the noise I swapped my attention to the driveshaft center bearing area.

The problem wasn't with the drive-shaft. I replaced the rear engine/transmission mounts that had turned to rubber mush and the noise disappeared. The torque on the engine/transmission assembly under acceleration was letting the driveshaft droop and the universal joint was hitting against the heat shield between the driveshaft and exhaust system. Once I had replaced the two rubber mounts everything was being held in alignment as designed. From memory the mounts were about $20 each, much less than I paid for the used half-shaft.

I realise that this thread is very old, but in case someone with a similar issue happens to see this I thought my two-cents might be helpful.

Cheers from Sydney, Australia.

[genphreak]

I had a similar problem several years ago. So did Kris...

I realise that this thread is very old, but in case someone with a similar issue happens to see this I thought my two-cents might be helpful.
LOL and he's still got it... I think we all appreciate the irony!

Kris, those noises can sound like they are coming from somewhere but in reality they are coming from somewhere else. Best to sit in the back or the trunk whilst someone drives so you can better isolate it! Com and get ya stuff on the weekend and I'll do so if u like. :) Nick

On second thoughts, the problem is, if I drive around w u in the trunk, I might end up burying ya out of habit! :D