Car won't start: tried a jumper on the relay, next!?

[Monastie]

• First of all I changed the fuel pump, because I had a spare one from my old tank. Made no difference.
• Second, I changed fuse 23, and still no go.
• Now, I just put a jumper between 30 and 87 on the relay, and it made the pump work even without the key in the ignition, and there was a hissing noise coming from around the fuel rail... but the car will still crank without firing.

any pointers would be greaaaatly appreciated! all of the above are stuff I learned about by searching the forums... but im out of resources now!

[whiskychaser]

• First of all I changed the fuel pump, because I had a spare one from my old tank. Made no difference.
• Second, I changed fuse 23, and still no go.
• Now, I just put a jumper between 30 and 87 on the relay, and it made the pump work even without the key in the ignition, and there was a hissing noise coming from around the fuel rail... but the car will still crank without firing.

any pointers would be greaaaatly appreciated! all of the above are stuff I learned about by searching the forums... but im out of resources now!
Get a 12V bulb and connect to two pieces of wire. Put one end to ground and the other to 'slot' 30 or 87. If the bulb lights up, put it in the other slot and temporarily replace the relay with the wire in place. The bulb should light up when you crank. If not the relay isnt working. If thats OK, whip out a plug. If it looks wet with fuel you are not getting a spark. Check by connecting up the plug and holding the outer againt a good ground while you crank. You should get a healthy spark across the plug gap. Use rubber gloves or insulated pliars so you dont get a shock.

[Dave M]

• Now, I just put a jumper between 30 and 87 on the relay, and it made the pump work even without the key in the ignition, and there was a hissing noise coming from around the fuel rail... but the car will still crank without firing.



Did you try starting it with the fuel pump relay jumper in place? If so, and it wouldn't start, then no need to try Whiskeys 12v bulb trick. Just pass go and collect $200. Or, just move on and check for spark.

Dave

[Tiger]

Any spark? If not, then crank position sensor.

[whiskychaser]

Did you try starting it with the fuel pump relay jumper in place? If so, and it wouldn't start, then no need to try Whiskeys 12v bulb trick. Just pass go and collect $200. Or, just move on and check for spark.

Dave
Dave is right. What I was trying to get you to do was prove that the relay and the circuit which energizes it were working so you wouldnt have to go back to it afterwards:D

[Tiger]

Crank position sensor.

[Monastie]

both pumps I have seem to be working.

finally cheked for spark today, and there was none. pulled the first spark plug and pluged it back in the wire, made it touch the valve cover, and no spark at ignition.
(btw, the bently dosent say you have to remove the airbox to reach the plugs.... but you kinda do! I had a hard time finding the plugs at first... ya im a noob)

next? new plugs? then move to dme? or can I chek voltage from dme with a regular voltmeter (or is it too much voltage).

[Monastie]

isn't the obc supposed to give me a message for this?
because it's not...

[525i winter driver]

next? new plugs? then move to dme? or can I chek voltage from dme with a regular voltmeter (or is it too much voltage).
how do your plugs look? spark plugs are likely not the problem if it suddenly stopped running, more likely distributor cap/rotor is fried in my limited experience, but it doesn't hurt to change the plugs at $25. the wear on them can be a good clue to your problem- check for deposits/corrosion.

i found the distributor cap was awkward to remove on the m20 as it is jammed right up against the fan housing, but on most vehicles it's an easy check. check for cracks in the plastic cap and burns on the components.

[525i winter driver]

pics of an old fried distributor and rotor - hard to believe any electrons made it through all that crud, the car was running (well) still tho.

tiger is probably spot on tho

[Tiger]

Nope... Crank position sensor will never get a trouble code.

[Tiger]

Just sand that oxidation down to brass metal and you can use it again... Old man's trick. However, if it is more than 5 years old.... change it out.

[525i winter driver]

Just sand that oxidation down to brass metal and you can use it again... Old man's trick. However, if it is more than 5 years old.... change it out.
nice trick, old man;) - it was the first thing i changed- i think it turns 20 next month, just like all the other parts :D .

edit: out of curiosity i went looking for the cps on real oem... is it part #12?

[Monastie]

I just got back from a trip, and I tried finding the cps but I'm just not quite sure where it is...

525i winter driver, since you've done it once would you mind giving me a hand? I realy need my car running :(

[525i winter driver]

I just got back from a trip, and I tried finding the cps but I'm just not quite sure where it is...

525i winter driver, since you've done it once would you mind giving me a hand? I realy need my car running :(
i could give you a hand taking the cap off but i don't even know where/what the cps is and i bet that's the problem. i have a bentley it's pretty helpful - it doesn't mention a 'pulse generator' except in the index (says 'see ignition system' where it's not listed) so maybe that's it... someone?

where do you live? i could probably come by tomorrow late afternoon... if not i think i'm busy until the weekend, maybe friday afternoon.

isn't there a saying about the blind helping the blind?

[Monastie]

oh i thought you were talking about having already done this in the last post...

I do have the bentley (pdf) format... and I found NOTHING about the cps!!

I'm in the ahuntsic area, right next to the bois-de-boulogne cegep

[525i winter driver]

oh i thought you were talking about having already done this in the last post...

I do have the bentley (pdf) format... and I found NOTHING about the cps!!

I'm in the ahuntsic area, right next to the bois-de-boulogne cegep
yeah sorry man - replacing a sensor shouldn't be difficult tho, you just have to find it... i'm interested to know myself, i'll post if i find anything out.

[Dave M]

CPS = Crank Position Sensor. Testing of the CPS is in the Bentley in section 120-5.

Below is a pic of my M50. The CPS is not installed in the photo, but the small metal bracket it sits in is shown in the photo, just above the harmonic balancer (large black wheel with teeth). The CPS should be held in place with a 5mm alen head bolt or a 10mm hex bolt. On the M50 it is somewhat difficult to see from top, but very accessible with a wrench. It basically counts teeth and send a message to the ignition.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Engine/Block_Swap/Mar112006004.jpg

Good luck,

Dave

[Monastie]

Replaced the cps with a 525i's one... are they the same?

Still have no spark!

[525i winter driver]

Replaced the cps with a 525i's one... are they the same?

Still have no spark!
i have no idea but i know where to get one probably - i don't think they would be the same .... different engine and different dme - you should be able to get one at autolectra (514) 342 - 1044 i find they have the best prices. it's on Rue Pare near the hippodrome (near Jean-Talon and Decarie).

[Monastie]

that's where I bought the cps... and most of my stuff...
plus I got 2 friends that work there so I get decent discounts, so tell me if you need something.

[525i winter driver]

that's where I bought the cps... and most of my stuff...
plus I got 2 friends that work there so I get decent discounts, so tell me if you need something.
that's cool, errr did you see my list (http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?p=300566#poststop)? - strange they gave you one for a 525, on realoem they are not the same part#.

[Monastie]

lol, nice list...
btw they didnt give me the 525 cps... I BEGGED FOR IT! stupid me
they didnt have a 535 one, and the bentley says they're give the same resistance... but apparently that dosent make them the same :/

my list is short, very short. But more expensive than yours :(
MAJOR bodywork, and if I want it realy well done it'll be nearing 3000$, and 5000$ for a full respray added.

btw, the cps was priced at 127$ at auto electra, I got it at 75$ (pelicanparts has it for 52$ but u have to add shipping, customs, and time)...
I found 2 535's at 2 scrapyards... I'll be checking them tomorow if it's open or monday otherwise
so seriously pm me if you need something from them or auto electra.

[525i winter driver]

lol, nice list...
btw they didnt give me the 525 cps... I BEGGED FOR IT! stupid me
they didnt have a 535 one, and the bentley says they're give the same resistance... but apparently that dosent make them the same :/

my list is short, very short. But more expensive than yours :(
MAJOR bodywork, and if I want it realy well done it'll be nearing 3000$, and 5000$ for a full respray added.

btw, the cps was priced at 127$ at auto electra, I got it at 75$ (pelicanparts has it for 52$ but u have to add shipping, customs, and time)...
I found 2 535's at 2 scrapyards... I'll be checking them tomorow if it's open or monday otherwise
so seriously pm me if you need something from them or auto electra.
thanks very much i will certainly let you know!

these guys have your cps for $96 and you'd get free shipping/no customs -i have ordered online from them and it came pretty fast. http://www.autopartsonlinecanada.com/
with our weather i would buy new electrical parts rather than from a yard here (for any car)- anything that you pull off a car here was most probably under 12 feet of snow for the last six months after a humid summer not to mention who knows how old - they'll be full of crud and rust and there's no way to check if they'll work (i don't think)... but if you really need to get it going you'll probably get it cheap at least!
these guys might have one and i think they are open saturdays
pieces st-henri 514-933-6751 st philippe/st jacques.

edit: btw did you test your old one?

[Monastie]

finally fired up, thnx for the imput from everyone!
got a used cps from a scrapyard at st-amable... i wish i could say cheap! 50$
but at least the car is running now.

Yes I had tested my old one and it was giving me some very high resistance numbers (it should be 530 +/-10 ohm i think).

[525i winter driver]

finally fired up, thnx for the imput from everyone!
got a used cps from a scrapyard at st-amable... i wish i could say cheap! 50$
but at least the car is running now.

Yes I had tested my old one and it was giving me some very high resistance numbers (it should be 530 +/-10 ohm i think).
glad to hear it - see you around!