540i won't crank... no fuelpump feed from DME

[yaofeng]

You need to first find out the build date. It determines whether it is EWS or EWS1. Next find the EWS documentation to do the diagnostic. It is online somewhere.

The starter immobiization relay is located on the left of the driver footwell.

[genphreak]

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to help with a problem on a '95 540?

The engine won't start... no fuel pump running. No power at the fuse. Checked the fuel pump relay- all pins are good except for the feed from the DME. I guess this is straight from the Motronic box.

If the Motronic is not pulling the fuel pump circuit up, is it because something in the car's security system (if it has one) is halting it? I don't know what the modern e34s have, but I read that there may be a EWS unit behind the dash? There is no security system under the rear seat, just the battery an EDS unit on one side, airbag sensor in the middle, and then the relay and GM box on the other with nothing in the least being security related.

I think the older e34s use the code feature in the OBC to disable Fuel Pressure and also (perhaps thus) the starter motor.

Does the EWS on a '95 connect in to this also?

Is there a way to reset it?

The car was starting until I disconnected the battery. On re-connecting it the car wouldn't crank. Dashboard lights etc all work properly it seems, and the coolant pump (and power in the engine bay all seems to come up as as it should).

It has the modern remote key-locking system (EWS?) a la e36 and the central locking is stone dead. The keyfobs don't remote operate either of course- but the car did used to start regardless.

Now the starter and fuel pump are stone dead.

Can anyone suggest what to check?

Already checked:
- Full power at the battery (13.7V- jumped with another, still nothing)
- Extar ground strap to the motor (before I realised there was no power to - the FP relay)
- All fuses (Fuse 23 (FuelPump) dead- but fuse not blown)
- Main relay (provides power to the ebox relays as it should)
- Trunk harness (the wear problem seems fixed on the 95 models...)

Many thanks in advance, Nick

[Ferret]

A '95 is almost certainly Transponder EWS driven - do you have an alternative key that you can try?

My '94 E34 TDs did this to me at one point, I took the battery cables off again, shorted them out and turned the ignition to start. Reconnected everything and it just started working again.

I have heard somewhere that if you lock one of the later E34s with the remote and then open with the key, it'll not start.

Sounds stupid but have you tried locking and unlocking the central locking before attempting to start the car? Even with the key?

If I remember correctly, on Transponder vehicles there is no immobilisation relay - it's driven directly from the ECU and no amount of jumping power to the starter or fuel pump relay will start it. You can tell if an E34 is transponder immobilised - there's a black plastic ring around the ignition barell that sticks out slightly.

[yaofeng]

I was wrong.

EWS 9/93 to 12/93
EWS1 1/94 on
EWS2 1/95 on

You have EWS2. And Ferret was correct. There is no SIR on EWS2 equipped e34. I downloaded the EWS description documentation in pdf somewhere online while I was troubleshooting my electrical fiasco right after the 6 speed conversion. PM me with your email address if you cannot locate it. I can send you a copy.

[genphreak]

You need to first find out the build date. It determines whether it is EWS or EWS1. Next find the EWS documentation to do the diagnostic. It is online somewhere.

The starter immobiization relay is located on the left of the driver footwell.Thanks yaofeng- I knew I could count on you to chime in :) Should have said what month she was; she's a 5/95 540i 6 speed. I'll get to hunting....

OK- found the official EWS bible (http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf) over at unofficalbmw.com - it explains the operation of all EWS systems. Looks like I will need t check that the EWSII reciever and power locking module are getting good power and ground.

Does anyone know where the knee bolster is- under the steering column?

" On E34 models the module is located on the drivers side of the vehicle behind the knee bolster."

Thanks for letting me know where to start...

[Tiger]

First of all... check your starter to see if it works. All you need is a remote starter button... and go to your diagnostic module in engine bay... I don't remember what pins... just two... and trigger it to see if your starter crank. You could use just a piece of wire too. Winfred mentioned this on other post.

Otherwise do it the hard way, at the starter... one big cable is the battery positive. Connect one wire to here... and then there is two little terminal, find out which one is positive and hook up the other wire to there.. Then trigger it.

It is possible the starter relay is bad... which I believe is under your back seat... or your fusible link is burned out.

[genphreak]

A '95 is almost certainly Transponder EWS driven - do you have an alternative key that you can try?

My '94 E34 TDs did this to me at one point, I took the battery cables off again, shorted them out and turned the ignition to start. Reconnected everything and it just started working again.

I have heard somewhere that if you lock one of the later E34s with the remote and then open with the key, it'll not start.

Sounds stupid but have you tried locking and unlocking the central locking before attempting to start the car? Even with the key?

If I remember correctly, on Transponder vehicles there is no immobilisation relay - it's driven directly from the ECU and no amount of jumping power to the starter or fuel pump relay will start it. You can tell if an E34 is transponder immobilised - there's a black plastic ring around the ignition barell that sticks out slightly.

Pearls of wisdom Ferret- thank you.

I can see now she is transponder immobilised.

I have 2 transponder keys with 2 buttons each- neither have any effect- the Red LEDs light alright. But the power locking is out as it was before I disconnected the battery... so it is hard to see if they work or not, or to try unlocking and re-locking the central locking.

Shorting the battery sounds promising...- I'll give that a shot (is it not dangerous to the ECU, or other things?) I am having awful visions of the airbags blowing when I connect the terminals... LOL!

:) Nick

[Ferret]

Shorting the battery sounds promising...- I'll give that a shot (is it not dangerous to the ECU, or other things?) I am having awful visions of the airbags blowing when I connect the terminals... LOL!


Lol, dont short the battery, you'll blow yourself up :p

It's effectively a 'shogun reset', should electrically reset all the systems in the vehicle, not just auto gearboxes.

There's a guide in the vehicles manual about resynching the keys to the vehicle, IR keys like mine?
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Ferret101/DSC00046.jpg

Try locking-unlocking the doors on the car with the key before attempting to start it the first time :)

[genphreak]

Yea... what is a knee bolster.... the cover under the dash above the knee? I didn't see no EWS module in there...

[genphreak]

Doh! yes I meant to say short the batt terminals... Thanks for the pic- I'll give all this a shot forst thing in the morning. Yes my keys are just like that. I don't have a manual though... so no User instructions to go off...

I'll try to connect the terminal connectors without the battery in the circuit for a little while- and se what happens! I sure appreciate the help Ferret, thanks!

[Ferret]

If noone else beats me to it, I'll scan the appropriate manual page this evening for you about how to re-synch!

[Ferret]

Yea... what is a knee bolster.... the cover under the dash above the knee? I didn't see no EWS module in there...

Basically gut the underside of the dash board and the bottom half of the steering column and follow the cables back, it'll be under there somewhere. I think the knee bolster is either the bottom of the steering column or the dash immediately adjacent to it.

[genphreak]

First of all... check your starter to see if it works. All you need is a remote starter button... and go to your diagnostic module in engine bay... I don't remember what pins... just two... and trigger it to see if your starter crank. You could use just a piece of wire too. Winfred mentioned this on other post.

Otherwise do it the hard way, at the starter... one big cable is the battery positive. Connect one wire to here... and then there is two little terminal, find out which one is positive and hook up the other wire to there.. Then trigger it.

It is possible the starter relay is bad... which I believe is under your back seat... or your fusible link is burned out.Thanks Tiger- I did try the diagnostic plug first, but the later cars don't have pins 11 or 14, they have about half as many located within the plug- and none are a remote start :( that sux- it is really uselful when adjusting valves (not necessary on an M60 tho)

Also, the starter was working fine. Since I can't get power to the fuel pump it is normal that the starter won't fire as (I think all) Motronic ECUs require fuel to allow cranking and/or firing of the plugs. Hopefully I can get around hot-wiring it and make the EWS work at the same time, but I'll let you know. I may just have to do that tho :{ Nick

[genphreak]

Basically gut the underside of the dash board and the bottom half of the steering column and follow the cables back, it'll be under there somewhere. I think the knee bolster is either the bottom of the steering column or the dash immediately adjacent to it.First thing in the am I'll be into it, and I'll post what I find out.... about 8 hours form now. Cheers Ferret!

[pgrindstaff]

I have heard somewhere that if you lock one of the later E34s with the remote and then open with the key, it'll not start.



This statement is very true. Just a couple of weeks ago I locked my car with the remote, came back half an hour later and it would not unlock with the remote. Knowing that the alarm would sound I went ahead and unlocked with the key as I had done this one time before and was able to deactivate the alarm. I was not so fortunate this time around though. Apparently my fob went bad and disassociated with EWS and immobilized my car. A tow and new key later, everything works fine again.

In my frantic search for a temporary solution (ie. get the car running, forget the alarm), I was told by someone at one of the dealerships I called that at one point there was an option to code the car to lock/unlock with either the remote OR the key, not one or the other. I have not looked through DIS yet but as soon as I get a chance I will be trying to find this option just in case.

Shogun has a link on his site for the DWA or EWS manual in PDF. This may help you.

Good luck,
Patrick

[Tiger]

Main relay or fusible link at the battery positive cable is burnt out.

[genphreak]

Have been going through things without any luck. Bah! EWS and now DWA.... (I just found the damned thing under the rear seat... hidden behind the RM/GM box). But it doesn't seem to be a part of the problem.

I've given up trying to make- figured I should try to solve the no power windows/dome light/central locking/low speed wipers problem first. Tried everything, with plenty of voltage in the system- and plain no go!

I've swapped all the fuses... checked power on each relay. However I seem to be missing the power protection relay (just got the car without these things working).

Does anyone else have a blank relay location beside their General Module?

[yaofeng]

Main relay or fusible link at the battery positive cable is burnt out.

This is a good point. You should definitely check it first to eliminate it as the source if nothing else.

[genphreak]

This is a good point. You should definitely check it first to eliminate it as the source if nothing else.Thanks guys... good suggestions. Fusible link was dodgey, so I replaced that instead of just cleaning the ends- but it can't be the problem. I have added a relay where it was missing one (the Power Protection Relay) and that has made no difference at all - but it does click when you put it in so it wants to do something... It is really weird. Main relay is passing current to the Fuel pump relay and ECU etc... and get this, if I jump the starter motor solenoid with a screwdriver the engine starts and the car drives fine.

OBC shows PPPP ever since I shorted the battery terminals a la Shogun's reset.

Still the circuit that runs the Central Locking, power windows and dome light, etc. is dead. Map lights work... Cruise control, everything needed to drive works.

And of course the keyfobs (remote locking) are dead.

This morning, I connected it to a handheld ECU scanner at a friends place, the ECU and the EWSII **are synchronised** and there are no problems reported with the ECU or EWSII...

My solution, if I can't find soemthing miraculously today or tomorrow, is to goto the dealer... :(

<Crying>

[Ferret]

Thanks guys... good suggestions. Fusible link was dodgey, so I replaced that instead of just cleaning the ends- but it can't be the problem. I have added a relay where it was missing one (the Power Protection Relay) and that has made no difference at all - but it does click when you put it in so it wants to do something... It is really weird. Main relay is passing current to the Fuel pump relay and ECU etc... and get this, if I jump the starter motor solenoid with a screwdriver the engine starts and the car drives fine.

OBC shows PPPP ever since I shorted the battery terminals a la Shogun's reset.

Still the circuit that runs the Central Locking, power windows and dome light, etc. is dead. Map lights work... Cruise control, everything needed to drive works.

And of course the keyfobs (remote locking) are dead.

This morning, I connected it to a handheld ECU scanner at a friends place, the ECU and the EWSII **are synchronised** and there are no problems reported with the ECU or EWSII...

My solution, if I can't find soemthing miraculously today or tomorrow, is to goto the dealer... :(

<Crying>


This might sound really silly, but have you checked the output terminals on the back of the ignition barrel? The E39s have a horrific problem with random crap dropping out on the car and it's all to do with the blasted ignition switch.

There's 2/3 voltage feeds out the back for the 'RUN' position iirc, and one or two drop out.

Start probing the terminals to see if you've actually got voltage coming out of the 'start' line when you turn the key.

Edit: is power going to the correct fuses? Even if it is, dont assume that the current's getting through them - barney had some electrical gremlins a while back and cleaning up the fuse contacts sorted it all out.

[genphreak]

Sounds like a good idea Ferret, I'll check. Just re-checked all the fuses with a meter, then swapped all the likely ones with new fuses just in case.

Found the EWS and DWA unit, but from the wiring diagrams I have it is hard to work out what is (or I should say, what should be) happening:

So far I've established:

This car has EWSII and DWA4, but with Infrared fobs- during last year of e34 production some upgrades were made in regard to security. It seems that 540s that went to other markets seem to get EWS or EWSII and DWAII with RF remotes. This one was built for Australia- like all of our cars they come from EU production (I'm guessing but they probably tack AU models on the end of UK or South African production runs.

Here's the weirdness: There is no starter motor imobilisation relay in the footwell as described in the Bently. The footwell on the driver's side houses the cruise module and the servotrinic steering relay- something realoem lists as an M5 item only.

The Main Power relay sends power out to the ebox relays properly. There is power on the igniton barrel which makes it into the EWS unit. However it doesn't make it out of the EWS, so when you go to start the car it is clear that EWS is saying a big fat no. I'm still trying to work out how the DWA communicates with the EWS but my guess is that it is DWA that is causing the problem by tellign EWS ot to allow the strater motor to fire. I've done some reading on DWA, and it seems that the metrics DWA4 uses to govern whether or not to trigger the alarm and immobilse the vehicle are quite extraordinary- so much so that it can cause havoc whencars are transported or if you push the car around a workshop as it senses movement in many dofferent ways. My car has an incine sensor in the trunk.

Usefull DWA/EWS links courtesy of Shogun's excellent link page (http://kunden.tridem.de/auto/erich/auto.htm)...

http://www.e31faq.com/info/65/E32_BurglarDWA.pdf
http://www.e38.org/e32/BMW_pdfs/DWA.pdf

I believe the important thing to check on a DWA vehicle is Pin 15 of the DWA unit- this is the one that will be high if it the unit is preventing the starter motor working- it feeds the starter motor immobilser relay. This signal is interrupted by activation of the DWA and wiring faults.

I'll have to see what the dealer says about the EWS tomorrow- I'm going to see if they can reset it for me- perhaps the car is fine after all. I've replaced the power prtection relay (it was missing) but all that does is restore power to the radio and OBC. So windows, locks and sunroof are all still out...

I'll post an update when I return from the dealer...

:) Nick

[pingu]

Still the circuit that runs the Central Locking, power windows and dome light, etc. is dead.

You've replaced one fusible link. I thought that in some cars there were two fusible links - one in the black plastic thing by the battery and another hidden in in-line in the positive cable, about a foot or two from the battery? Maybe worth a try if you get desperate.

[genphreak]

You've replaced one fusible link. I thought that in some cars there were two fusible links - one in the black plastic thing by the battery and another hidden in in-line in the positive cable, about a foot or two from the battery? Maybe worth a try if you get desperate.Yea- I'm still looking. So far, all the interior is out, carpets- and the wiring loom exposed... no sign of another link yet... but am about to strip the wiring down and check all the ends that are bound up at the factory.

I reckon BMW have a share in a copper mine, there must be 50kgs of copper wires in every e34- and more in this one.

Thanks for making the point, I've not looked well enough yet- so will check the manual again. :) nick

[genphreak]

Update: Dealer says that DWA will not disable windows, roof, demister low speed wipers but perhaps the central locking (ZKE).

So I've got some work to do here. I wish I could find some info on how the power protection relay works... :) nick