A friend is having some power troubles...

[bsell]

Hey guys unfortunately a friend of mine is driving a 2.0L Diesel Ford Galaxy (that's the unfortunate part) - no seriously though she's found that the car is sometimes struggling to accelerate above 50mph (sometimes even 40mph!) even with the accelerator nailed to the floor...

Apparently it's struggling for power when the air con and other things are in use - does this sound like a bad alternator to you? No other symptoms as far as I know (no warning lights on dash) - and the car was doing 80 yesterday without a problem (no air con etc switched on)...

Cheers fellas... Any ideas welcomed as I want to go and have a look at it but could use some ideas incase anybody's had anything like this before. Done a search and couldn't find anything of use bar this one but I can only assume the porblme is similar???

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33200&highlight=alternator

Low power sounds like either clogged fuel/air filters or plugged up exhaust system. When's the last time the filters were looked after? Did she back into a curb with the exhaust and crimp the pipe closed? Or did some critter fill the muffler with 'treasures?'

Could be dirty injectors causing poor spray pattern but she should have hard start symptoms also.

Brian

[Tiger]

I know all about diesel engine. I would say in her situation that she needs to change her fuel filter. Clogged fuel filter robs power.

Another thing is to buy biocide for the fuel tank. Pour it in to kill algae that may be clogging her fuel tank screen.

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey guys unfortunately a friend of mine is driving a 2.0L Diesel Ford Galaxy (that's the unfortunate part) - no seriously though she's found that the car is sometimes struggling to accelerate above 50mph (sometimes even 40mph!) even with the accelerator nailed to the floor...

Apparently it's struggling for power when the air con and other things are in use - does this sound like a bad alternator to you? No other symptoms as far as I know (no warning lights on dash) - and the car was doing 80 yesterday without a problem (no air con etc switched on)...

Cheers fellas... Any ideas welcomed as I want to go and have a look at it but could use some ideas incase anybody's had anything like this before. Done a search and couldn't find anything of use bar this one but I can only assume the porblme is similar???

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33200&highlight=alternator

[whiskychaser]

Hey guys unfortunately a friend of mine is driving a 2.0L Diesel Ford Galaxy (that's the unfortunate part) - no seriously though she's found that the car is sometimes struggling to accelerate above 50mph (sometimes even 40mph!) even with the accelerator nailed to the floor...

Apparently it's struggling for power when the air con and other things are in use - does this sound like a bad alternator to you? No other symptoms as far as I know (no warning lights on dash) - and the car was doing 80 yesterday without a problem (no air con etc switched on)...

Cheers fellas... Any ideas welcomed as I want to go and have a look at it but could use some ideas incase anybody's had anything like this before. Done a search and couldn't find anything of use bar this one but I can only assume the porblme is similar???

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33200&highlight=alternator
Diesels work on compression-ignition: they dont need a spark to get them to run. So I dont think electrics should be a factor. Feather Diesels are the people to talk to. (Used to be in Wakefield but they are in Cleckhuddersfax now) I always thought they did just trucks but a mate says they are the dogs for cars too

[e34.535i.sport]

Hmmmm that is interesting... I can see how the fuel filter can rob power (mine weighed a ton when I changed it - although it was about 14 years old! LOL!), but why would problems only arise when the A/C is on if this was the case?

Tiger - This Biocide sounds facinating I would never have thought that algae would stop a car running properly! Is this stuff readily available in your average motor store?!

[Tiger]

Call them up and ask. If they supply parts for diesel cars, most likely yes. Truck stops definitely have them. Marine shop definitely have them.

When you starve the fuel, any additional load such as AC will slow it down further.

The diesel injectors probably need some cleaning too... a gallon of gasoline in a full tank of diesel will dissolve any gunks along the way.

[Ferret]

Call them up and ask. If they supply parts for diesel cars, most likely yes. Truck stops definitely have them. Marine shop definitely have them.

When you starve the fuel, any additional load such as AC will slow it down further.

The diesel injectors probably need some cleaning too... a gallon of gasoline in a full tank of diesel will dissolve any gunks along the way.

Something that I always remember in these situations - check the turbo-manifold hose, does it hiss loudly when she puts her foot down?

Ford were renowned in the uk for using weak air ducts that just couldnt cope on their TD models - something to do with rubber hoses working in close proximity to the exhaust manifolds!

If you cant find anything else wrong with it, check the boost pressure as well...

Does it black smoke under load? Follow her somewhere when the engines warm and get her to nail the gas pedal hard while you watch.

Too much smoke = turbo not spooling up
Some smoke = just right
No smoke = pressure line between inlet manifold and mechanical fuel injection pump busted, injection pump not overfuelling as the turbo comes in and engine leaning out.

[bsell]

[QUOTE=e34.535i.sport]Hmmmm that is interesting... I can see how the fuel filter can rob power (mine weighed a ton when I changed it - although it was about 14 years old! LOL!), but why would problems only arise when the A/C is on if this was the case?[QUOTE]

Gradual power loss is hard to detect, at least until some major milestone like accelerating past 50-60mph isn't met. I bet your friend doesn't do many top-end runs, otherwise she would have noticed the new, lower top-end speed caused by the reduced power.

Or, did the fuel filter/pick-up screen in the tank finally plug up totally causing the very low power output? Hopefully, this junk didn't make it into the injection pump and injectors yet as now you are talking tons of money.:(

Most cars provide pretty easy access to the in-tank fuel pump which means you can put eyes on the condition of your friend's bio-project (or not) in the fuel tank. It should be not much more than a couple lids and screws but I am not the one to know about European model Ford diesels!

Brian

[Lordsneldon]

A friend of mine had the exact same problem on his diesel focus. It was an electrical fault and was traced back to the fly-by-wire on the throttle/injection pump.

[Ferret]

A friend of mine had the exact same problem on his diesel focus. It was an electrical fault and was traced back to the fly-by-wire on the throttle/injection pump.

How old is this car?

I wouldnt expect it to be fly-by-wire or have a common rail injection pick up pump in the tank unless it's a TDCi model... and even then I'd be suspicious on a ford.

If it's a pre-2001->3 model it'll be purely mechanical injection - if you're having problems with these it's likely to be the fuel filter or a fuel leak or turbo problem. On older diesels a fuel leak doesnt constitute 'fuel leaking from...', more 'air leaking into' as older mech inj diesels have the fuel lines running at lower than atmospheric pressure.

A fuel leak on a mech inj diesel is damn hard work to find as you get no fuel escaping to pinpoint it!

[SnakeyesTx]

I'm going to take the road less travelled here and say either failing turbo (or piping from the turbo to the intake), or a failing injector pump. C'mon guys... aren't there any Chevy people here that went through the Injector pump nightmare on 6.2 and 6.5L diesels? :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey guys I'm going to investigate this weekend... The advice so far has been invaluable I can't thank you enough! :)

The car in question is a W-reg (2001) incase that is of any importance!

Having realised from this thread alone how little I know about Diesel engines I have the urge to learn more about them, it seems fascinating.

Any more ideas welcome - I'll try and locate the fuel filters on the weekend to change them! Anyone happen to have any 'usual' area's for them or can they be anywhere? I know mine is behind the rear RH wheel and on the e36 it is in the Engine bay, but you know what it's like when you move from one manufaturer to another - the stuff seems alien. Like when I said to my dad I'd change the brakes on his 2001 Peugeot 406 Diesel... Took me a while to figure out how to even get them off never mind back on!!!

Thanks again for all replies so far.

[dave.o]

Hello John Go for it, I agree always start with the filters on a diesel with an issue like this if a quick visual check reveals no obvious faults. However bear in mind that a diesel will need its fuel system bleeding after a filter change. You need to find where the specific bleed points are on the car before embarking on a swap. If you don't bleed it correctly the thing will refuse to start. Also if possible fill the replacement filters with clean diesel before fitting. Sorry can only offer general and not specific advice as i haven't played with a small Ford diesel in while. Best luck Dave

[Ferret]

Any more ideas welcome - I'll try and locate the fuel filters on the weekend to change them! Anyone happen to have any 'usual' area's for them or can they be anywhere?

Assuming it's mech injection:
On fords they're usually located bolted to the left or right shock tower under the bonnet - they have to be accessible as they have a hand primer pump on top of them. Rarely (and I know the Galaxy's a bitch to work on, so it may be) it's bolted to the firewall at the back.

Look for a canister under the bonnet, where the canister part hangs down from a plastic/metal mount, with a dome type plunger sat on top of it. You get the fuel filter out by unscrewing the lower half of that canister off the mount, watch out though it'll have 1/2 litre of diesel in it.

As suggested, fill it with clean diesel almost to the top before re-fitting or you've not got a hope in hell of getting it started. Pump the primer on top of the housing until its not possible to pump it any further.

Start the car with your foot flat to the floor on the gas pedal, when it catches hold it at high rpm for a minute or so to pull all the air out of the lines. It may stumble badly as the remaining air gets pulled through, or even stall out. If it stalls you need to re-pump the primer before attempting to start again, otherwise you'll just pancake the battery trying to get it to start...

[e34.535i.sport]

Assuming it's mech injection:
On fords they're usually located bolted to the left or right shock tower under the bonnet - they have to be accessible as they have a hand primer pump on top of them. Rarely (and I know the Galaxy's a bitch to work on, so it may be) it's bolted to the firewall at the back.

Look for a canister under the bonnet, where the canister part hangs down from a plastic/metal mount, with a dome type plunger sat on top of it. You get the fuel filter out by unscrewing the lower half of that canister off the mount, watch out though it'll have 1/2 litre of diesel in it.

As suggested, fill it with clean diesel almost to the top before re-fitting or you've not got a hope in hell of getting it started. Pump the primer on top of the housing until its not possible to pump it any further.

Start the car with your foot flat to the floor on the gas pedal, when it catches hold it at high rpm for a minute or so to pull all the air out of the lines. It may stumble badly as the remaining air gets pulled through, or even stall out. If it stalls you need to re-pump the primer before attempting to start again, otherwise you'll just pancake the battery trying to get it to start...

You sir, are a legend! :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Hello John Go for it, I agree always start with the filters on a diesel with an issue like this if a quick visual check reveals no obvious faults. However bear in mind that a diesel will need its fuel system bleeding after a filter change. You need to find where the specific bleed points are on the car before embarking on a swap. If you don't bleed it correctly the thing will refuse to start. Also if possible fill the replacement filters with clean diesel before fitting. Sorry can only offer general and not specific advice as i haven't played with a small Ford diesel in while. Best luck Dave

Cheers Dave - heading down there in an hour or so... Should be interesting!

[e34.535i.sport]

Thanks for all the help so far all...

Done the fuel filter job yesterday without a problem, there was no bleeding pump of any kind to be seen but the dealer confirmed this model was self bleeding. ll the research I done suggested there would be some sort of fuel primer somewhere but luckily it wasn't a problem and it started first time and IDLED PERFECTLY. She hasn't tested it yet but its going in a long journey tomorrow so when I find out how its going I'll let you know. Hopefully the new filter will restore some power.

The interesting thing was when we pulled the pipes off the old filter to remove it no diesel came out. I don't know if this is normal or not, but it seemed unusual.

I just thought I'd update on the progress as I hate it when you don't get the end result on here, I like to know how things end!

[Tiger]

Did you get some biocide or Startron? Why not cut open the old filter to see what is inside?

[e34.535i.sport]

Did you get some biocide or Startron? Why not cut open the old filter to see what is inside?

Hi Tiger - I advised the Biocide so hopefully she'll find some and throw it in... I didn't open up the old filter but there's a big hole at the top of them so I had a look down it and it looked a shitty... On the new one I could see some white 'mesh' type plastic and the old one was totally black! Fingers crossed it helps with the power, but if not then the biocide might and the new filter can't hurt!

[Tiger]

Just I suspected... algae... Sounds like she definitely need biocide and a couple more filters. Startron is better but more costly. Startron is an active colony that will eat algae and excrete remains much smaller than filter size so it passes through and burns in engine... won't clog up filter.

[bsell]

Just I suspected... algae... Sounds like she definitely need biocide and a couple more filters. Startron is better but more costly. Startron is an active colony that will eat algae and excrete remains much smaller than filter size so it passes through and burns in engine... won't clog up filter.

I don't have that much diesel experience and would like to pick the collective brain on this subject...

Does this stuff eat the fuel pump pick-up screen clean also? Not having used this kind of product, if one fears the pick-up screen is clogged shouldn't the tank 'rest' while the buggies do their thing? That way the tank gets 'cleaned' before you suck out all the good guys, right?

I saw above the recommendation to cut the diesel with a gallon of gasoline as a natural gum remover. Should this be done after the buggies eat up the algae? Or does this non-lubricated fuel cause concern for the fuel distributor?

Thanks for making me smarter,

Brian

[Tiger]

Don't worry about the good guys... they will reproduce themselves as food is still available. This is only for Startron.

As for biocide, they kill algae like weed killer would kill weed. There is always oil in diesel so there is no issue with the fuel pump.

Again, don't worry about the good guys. Gasoline is another way to kill or keep the agae in control.

[Tiger]

So what's the result? Fixed?

[bsell]

Don't worry about the good guys... they will reproduce themselves as food is still available. This is only for Startron.

As for biocide, they kill algae like weed killer would kill weed. There is always oil in diesel so there is no issue with the fuel pump.

Again, don't worry about the good guys. Gasoline is another way to kill or keep the agae in control.

Thanks for the education!

Brian

[Tiger]

Ahh... she couldn't call and give you a head's up... funny. She probably would call if the car is still the same as before... complaining... LOL

[Tiger]

LOL.. They have Indians to do smoke signals for their communication... They probably said (in smoke signal), "Check your email, stupid!"

[e34.535i.sport]

So what's the result? Fixed?

Not sure yet she's gone on a trip to the lakes so I'll find out when she gets back at the end of the week and let you guys know! I'm dying to find out myself... found it really interesting working on a different car - especially the diesel so I want to know if it done any good!

[e34.535i.sport]

Ahh... she couldn't call and give you a head's up... funny. She probably would call if the car is still the same as before... complaining... LOL

That's women for ya... :p

[whiskychaser]

That's women for ya... :p
Be Fair. They dont have phones in the lake district do they?:)

[e34.535i.sport]

Hey got news today that the car is now performing much better after the fuel filter install so many, many thanks!

She took it up to the lakes pulling a trailer too (which would normally see the car struggling to exceed 50mph) and she had no problems getting to 70mph+!

I'm still shocked that a fuel filter could cause such a severe problem but of course it makes sense really. I Got a good sense of satisfaction working on another 'different' vehicle, made a nice change.

Thanks again guys, I love this place! :D