ot - early signs of food shortage

[525i winter driver]

went for coffee at the drive-thru yesterday... good thing we didn't want tomatoes, mcdonald's canada is out!

[repenttokyo]

went for coffee at the drive-thru yesterday... good thing we didn't want tomatoes, mcdonald's canada is out!


there is restaurant on sherbrooke street west called 'Cosmos' which is famous for their breakfast, and one morning I went there and ordered something that came with hashbrowns. When the waiter came with my food, he said to me "we were out of po-tay-toes so i gave you to-MAY-toes." I look down and sure enough, on my place are sliced tomatoes. I guess if it rhymes, it's 'all good'? WTF??

[RallyD]

same at taco bell last night

[525i winter driver]

there is restaurant on sherbrooke street west called 'Cosmos' which is famous for their breakfast, and one morning I went there and ordered something that came with hashbrowns. When the waiter came with my food, he said to me "we were out of po-tay-toes so i gave you to-MAY-toes." I look down and sure enough, on my place are sliced tomatoes. I guess if it rhymes, it's 'all good'? WTF??
holy crap no hash browns at cosmos?!?!?! the sky really is falling!

[Mitch90535im]

This is the most likely cause -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364448,00.html

[Dave M]

there is restaurant on sherbrooke street west called 'Cosmos' which is famous for their breakfast, and one morning I went there and ordered something that came with hashbrowns. When the waiter came with my food, he said to me "we were out of po-tay-toes so i gave you to-MAY-toes." I look down and sure enough, on my place are sliced tomatoes. I guess if it rhymes, it's 'all good'? WTF??

Looks like they were trying to get rid of all their salmonella ;)

[525i winter driver]

This is the most likely cause -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364448,00.html

ewwwwww i ate raw tomatoes yesterday

maybe here are some solutions to the coming food/energy crisis.

http://www.hempcar.org/indexOLD.html
http://www.jackherer.com/popmech.html

could work... the only obstacles i can see are the oil, pharma, food, forest, and cotton megacorporations and they are sure to have our best interests in mind no?

[repenttokyo]

beware the cotton megacorporations.

[pundit]

Several transport companies and many owner drivers have gone bankrupt over here already while others are in receivership over fuel prices.
So it's likely there will be shortages of items, initially caused by transportation issues.

There are currently mass protests and blockades occurring around the world.

"If we stop because we haven't got the money to buy fuel then the country will stop." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7443257.stm)

Adding fuel to the food crisis fire (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/10/2269605.htm)

Fishermen, police clash in EU fuel protest (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/05/2265727.htm)

French truckers, taxis stage fuel protests (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/04/2264237.htm)

Fuel prices 'push Qld fishing fleet close to collapse (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/03/2263153.htm)

Fuel prices threaten livelihoods across Europe (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/31/2261190.htm)

Not to mention the fertilisers and pesticides that require petrochemicals.

[Ross]

I figured you'd jump on this pundit.
The reason is fear of e-coli bacteria. Rather than demand workers wash their hands after wiping their McAss they eliminate sliced tomatoes. Cherry tomatoes remain.

[Jon K]

LOL food shortage....

its called a salmonella spread...

[repenttokyo]

LOL food shortage....

its called a salmonella spread...


it's called a joke.

[ThoreauHD]

While this post was made in humor due to e-coli and salmonella, I think it will be the truth in a year. What trucker can survive paying a european rate for gas in a country our size? Who's going to buy a crate of milk when the shipping costs as much as the crate? For large countries, cheap travel is necessary for commerce aka food.

I don't think we've gotten there yet, because truckers are in the midst of dying. When they are dead, we will be screwed. Get used to the reality of locally grown food and produce.

As far as the world food shortage aka rice shortage, I can't say I give a rats ass. To be blunt, I don't know any european American that eats rice as a staple. Whitey don't care. He'd outlive the cockroaches even if every rice field in the world bursts into flames. Potatoes, maybe. Rice, hell no. And for the asians in America, well, they'll just have to eat like the rest of us or get used to disappointment. Sorry for the "racial" and doom and gloom trucker slant, but water's wet and the sky's blue. Ignore it at your peril.

[525i winter driver]

beware the cotton megacorporations.
:D ... ok ya got me there's no monsanto cotton division (actually, i bet there is!) but there are plenty of lobbyists and it's a big industry with some political clout....

[whiskychaser]

Posted a thread some time ago about how to level ground to build a greenhouse. I received lots of constructive advice. Some of which I actually followed:-) So you could say that thanks to this board we have potatoes, tomatoes, chillies, onions, peppers and god knows what else she planted:-) And we live in the middle of a town. Ok we dont have a goat and she doesnt look like Felicity Kendal (in her younger days!) but we wont starve. Tanker drivers are due to go on strike for 4 days so best get some potato peelings and get the still going if we are to get about

[pundit]

I figured you'd jump on this pundit.
The reason is fear of e-coli bacteria. Rather than demand workers wash their hands after wiping their McAss they eliminate sliced tomatoes. Cherry tomatoes remain.
Some more 'e-coli' ;)...

Two dead amid Europe, Asia fuel protests (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/11/2270723.htm)

So far most of the shortages are due to the strikes and blockades.
While their actions are no doubt causing a great deal of angst amongst the population in their own countries, it's really showing how quickly things can come to a stop when the transportation industry does.
As transport companies and owner drivers go to the wall the shortages will become more serious.

Initially many governments will be forced into either lowering fuel taxes or increasing subsidies... they'll simply have no choice.
However as fuel becomes even more expensive this will begin to have major negative consequences on their economies.

It shows just how fragile our modern social framework is.
I'm sure plenty of people have been pissed off when they found out McDonalds were out of tomatoes, or someone else was out of potatoes.

Try and contemplate a week long transport shutdown.
How long before the supermarket shelves are empty?
How long after that before social breakdown?

While I'm not suggesting this is going happen next week, double the cost of fuel and think about what will happen then.

[pundit]

... As far as the world food shortage aka rice shortage, I can't say I give a rats ass. To be blunt, I don't know any european American that eats rice as a staple. Whitey don't care. He'd outlive the cockroaches even if every rice field in the world bursts into flames. Potatoes, maybe. Rice, hell no. And for the asians in America, well, they'll just have to eat like the rest of us or get used to disappointment. Sorry for the "racial" and doom and gloom trucker slant, but water's wet and the sky's blue. Ignore it at your peril.
Hungry people are pissed off people, whether they live next door or not.
Rice is the staple food of half the world's population.
While those who are currently starving in the third world may pose little personal threat to us, food shortages in more developed countries will affect global stability and have global repercussions.

[bsell]

Pundit,
One thing that ain't gonna happen in the U.S.A. is food shortage. We feed half the world already (a good deal for free, thank you) and ourselves.
While the oil and sand countries are swinging their meat currently, we can adapt to life with only our own energy sources. They will be chewing sand.
Like I stated, Micky D didn't run out of anything. It was a heath precaution.
Perhaps someone here would like to post a picture of their local grocery store's shelves to ease 'ol pundit's mind.

While we may stand as a country after the dust settles, post food/energy crisis) how we look may be much different than either you or I can imagine. This abundance of food stuffs we produce is due to the gifts of good old oil. Remove the petrochemical fertilizers and the fuel to run the equipment and where (or better yet, back when) are we? Back in the 'good old days' of farming, subsitance farming, i.e. you worked yourself almost to death just to get by. I'm sorry, but there are just too many of us to go back to subsistance farming.

It is folly to think the USA will keep on, keepin' on, while 'Rome' burns. We will feel our own brand of pain, some home-grown, some from the 'neighbors.' Does it matter if the next big war is over food, energy, or breaking border sovereignty? War is war and will be harder to avoid as food and energy shortages worsen.

What's the saying, necessity is the Mother of Invention? Well come on Mother Invention! Create us a way out of this oil stranglehold!

Brian

[Ross]

Pundit,
One thing that ain't gonna happen in the U.S.A. is food shortage. We feed half the world already (a good deal for free, thank you) and ourselves.
While the oil and sand countries are swinging their meat currently, we can adapt to life with only our own energy sources. They will be chewing sand.
Like I stated, Micky D didn't run out of anything. It was a heath precaution.
Perhaps someone here would like to post a picture of their local grocery store's shelves to ease 'ol pundit's mind.

[repenttokyo]

Pundit,
One thing that ain't gonna happen in the U.S.A. is food shortage. We feed half the world already (a good deal for free, thank you) and ourselves.
While the oil and sand countries are swinging their meat currently, we can adapt to life with only our own energy sources. They will be chewing sand.
Like I stated, Micky D didn't run out of anything. It was a heath precaution.
Perhaps someone here would like to post a picture of their local grocery store's shelves to ease 'ol pundit's mind.


i think pundit is also referring to the fact that with high energy prices, we might see breakdowns in the transportation of food to said grocery store shelves.

[RockJock]

Pundit,
One thing that ain't gonna happen in the U.S.A. is food shortage. We feed half the world already (a good deal for free, thank you) and ourselves.
While the oil and sand countries are swinging their meat currently, we can adapt to life with only our own energy sources. They will be chewing sand.
Like I stated, Micky D didn't run out of anything. It was a heath precaution.
Perhaps someone here would like to post a picture of their local grocery store's shelves to ease 'ol pundit's mind.

Okay.....;) :D

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn291/190166/lotsafood.jpg

[pundit]

i think pundit is also referring to the fact that with high energy prices, we might see breakdowns in the transportation of food to said grocery store shelves.
Correct. Food itself won't suddenly vanish, at least in the U.S.
It's the fuel effected transport industry that may be the cause of sudden shortages.
Don't matter how many eggs Farmer Brown has to sell, if he can't get 'em to market, you can't buy 'em.

The other angle is once a few things start becoming short in supply, people will start panic buying and escalate the situation.

I used to subcontract to a major electronics manufacturer of telecommunications equipment which included PABX systems.

It was a very unionised workplace.
Whenever there was industrial action initiated by the production workers or electricians their union representatives would go to 'storemen and packers' rep and arrange for all 'inwards and outwards' goods to be shutdown.
It didn't matter if whether the 'storemen and packers' had a gripe with the company or not.
They would just follow the request of the ETU (Electrical Trades Union) and BINGO the company would grind to a sudden halt.

Shutting down stores had an immediate effect on the companies ability to function.
It would take a lot longer for striking production workers or electricians to begin to effect operations.
Although it was known as a 'secondary boycott' and was illegal under the law they didn't care.

The company would give in within a few days.
Needless to say production has since shut down altogether and all the manufacturing went offshore... so they lost their jobs in the end.

[bubba966]

The other angle is once a few things start becoming short in supply, people will start panic buying and escalate the situation.

Have seen that happen recently with rice (I work at a Costco). We didn't have any problem until the news said there might be a rice shortage. Then people started coming in and buying a whole hell of a lot more rice than they normally would (like coming in and buying 1,000 pounds of rice!).

Of course we would then run out rather quickly as it'd sell faster than it could come in.

So then people would come in and look for rice. We didn't have any because it was overbought. They then panicked and would come every day and line up 2-3+ hours before the store opened to buy as much rice as they could. Then we put a 20 bag limit on rice.

That quickly turned into a 4 bag limit. Once we were at the 4 bag limit people were getting into arguments and were almost starting fistfights over who did & didn't get rice.

Next thing you know we're at a 2 bag limit. At a 2 bag limit it takes less than 8 minutes to sell 100 bags of rice (each weighing 50 pounds). It woulda sold faster if we could've loaded up people's carts faster.

Then we're at a 1 bag limit. Still takes a matter of just a few minutes to sell out a pallet of rice.

Eventually the panic buying slowed down (really, how much rice can you buy without it going bad?). Yes, we still sell out of rice when we get it in. But it takes hours and hours now to sell out a pallet.

Was there ever really a rice shortage? I don't think so. But the people thinking there was and panicking about it made it happen as they bought so much of it to horde that there was nothing left to buy.

If the media hadn't said anything about a possibility of a rice shortage I don't think anything would have happened. But the thought of a shortage ands up making a shortage due to panic buying.

[525i winter driver]

the us won't run out of food that's ridiculous but it might cost a lot more to buy it. the whole infrastructure of the us (and canada) has pretty much been built on cheap oil. us currency is weak and other countries can pay far more for us exports than they used to.

i think the problem is compounded in oz by the endless drought - importing stuff to australia must be getting really expensive. i can see why pundit is right on top of this as i can imagine australians being more affected by the current conditions than us north americans... but i think this will affect everyone to some degree.

man... cherry tomatos forever :(

[pundit]

...i think the problem is compounded in oz by the endless drought - importing stuff to australia must be getting really expensive. i can see why pundit is right on top of this as i can imagine australians being more affected by the current conditions than us north americans... but i think this will affect everyone to some degree.
Water costs are going to double here over the next few years.
Our third largest capital city (Brisbane) came close to running out of water last year.
Goulburn (near Canberra) did actually run out of water a while back.

Grocery prices are going up but so far it has more to do with price gouging by the supermarket chains than anything else.
Fuel costs and the occasional cyclone up north seem be the excuse the supermarkets are giving for the price hikes but the farmers say they aren't receiving in more for their produce.

The other issue for transport is many companies often sign 3 or 5 year contracts to supply the supermarket chains and have not been able to increase their prices to to rising fuel costs.
It won't be long before a fuel levy will have to be included in any contract.

[RockJock]

Water costs are going to double here over the next few years.
Our third largest capital city (Brisbane) came close to running out of water last year.
Goulburn (near Canberra) did actually run out of water a while back.

------snip-----

I've heard that some of the mining towns in SW Australia are entirely supplied via pipeline (300km+) of water pipelines...... is this true? Recipe for disaster?

[pundit]

Okay.....;) :D

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn291/190166/lotsafood.jpg
That looks a very 'low fat' selection of produce on there, them shelves!
It's a shame really, the food graphic wall paper above the shelving gets my mouth watering... pity you can't eat that! ;)