OT: Poor state of affairs - Garage chimps...

[e34.535i.sport]

So I finally got round to taking the car in to get the front wheels aligned (tracking) today... Took it to a couple of places who refused to do it because it needs 'special weighting' or some rubbish - I said I couldn't care less just get it as close as poss as I've changed out all the front end parts (arms/shocks etc)... They said it wasn't happening.

So I take it to a big place nearby that specialises in tires/alignment/balancing etc and they throw it straight on the ramps (well I did)... and put the laser guides on. It's out a fair whack.

The guy lifts it up and stands underneath for a while looking around. I'm watching him as he fumbles around looking bewildered... I tell him it should be pretty simple with the new track rod ends and such... He hasn't got a clue what I'm talking about. A couple of minutes later he goes to get someone else to help him... After a while they start trying to undo the self locking nuts with one spanner. By this point I'm getting worried and pissed off so I try to explain to the less than average intelligence fellow how to do it. He still hasn't got an igloo so has to get the manager to come and show him how it's done. I stood back and watched as it took three guys to sort out the alignment when a chimp could do it and I thought to myself - what a world it is we live in.

The simple job ended up taking about 20-25 minutes out of my day while she's guzzling away up there and I ended up paying £23.50 for the privilege!

http://www.wnd.com/images/story/cb_chimp.jpg

[BigKriss]

hmmmm, i can't understand what's to hard about adjusting tie rods either.

[Ferret]

hmmmm, i can't understand what's to hard about adjusting tie rods either.

Last time I took mine in after replacing the whole steering set, the poor guy doing the alignment was throwing spanners across the garage cos he couldnt get it to line up.

It was so far out when I took it in that it took three attempts on the ramps to get it tracking straight and in alignment. Really got my 25 quids worth of value out of them on that job.

They did try and charge me £35 for having to do a 'prestige' rack and pinion car... but they were kinda stumped when I pointed out it doesnt have rack and pinion steering.

Mucking Fuppets :D

The steering was fun:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Ferret101/Steering/ff.jpg

Some of these places really need to get their guys trained up, I usually wont leave my car while they're working on it - I've had some bad run ins with partially trained chimps in kwik fit and the like!

[Ross]

Tire stores must be the same there as here, only yank mucking fuppets.
Special weighting consists of weighting the car to simulate a driver and passenger on board. Last time I read the newspaper in the driver's seat while the muppets toyed. To no avail as the job was botched anyway.
"while she was guzzling away"? You left it running? Is this their interpretation of "special weighting"?
All that can be adjusted is toe anyway. Look up your countryman BarneyPaulEdwards. I suspect he can do it with a measured length of rope and some rocks.

[BigKriss]

wow, Australia must actually be ahead the rest of the world because I've never had problems before.

yeah there was a link a few months to doing the wheel alignment DIY. I wonder where it is now?

[shogun]

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35642&highlight=trakrite

[Ken35i]

I used 3 string lines and a measuring tape to do mine. TURNed out great. :)

[E34-520iSE]

I did mine with a length of timber nearly a year ago - I still can't see any shoulder wear on the front tyres!

Cheers,

Shaun M

[e34.535i.sport]

Tire stores must be the same there as here, only yank mucking fuppets.
Special weighting consists of weighting the car to simulate a driver and passenger on board. Last time I read the newspaper in the driver's seat while the muppets toyed. To no avail as the job was botched anyway.
"while she was guzzling away"? You left it running? Is this their interpretation of "special weighting"?
All that can be adjusted is toe anyway. Look up your countryman BarneyPaulEdwards. I suspect he can do it with a measured length of rope and some rocks.

Yeah they always say to leave them running... Not too sure why? :(

[whiskychaser]

'Dad, do you know the E34's on my foot?' 'You hum it son and I'll play it!'

I've got some string. Must ask BPE what the rocks are for...:D

[e34.535i.sport]

I used 3 string lines and a measuring tape to do mine. TURNed out great. :)

Can I ask exactly how you did it?! I'd rather do it myself next time I was worried about them rounding the nuts the way they were fumbling around...

[Paul in NZ]

i say you got what you asked for.....BMW do specify certain weight(s) in the car....I would have got out of that place a soon it was evident hey didnt know what they were doing...There is no reason to have the car running.

[Ken35i]

Can I ask exactly how you did it?! I'd rather do it myself next time I was worried about them rounding the nuts the way they were fumbling around...

I knew I should have taken pictures. But whilst I was doing it i thought I was crazy because it wouldn't work and at the same time thinking it would because it's simple. But it did; my wheels were out when I reinstalled the steering box. Steering was about 1/16 of a turn out. Now it's striaght as a diver and wheels are parallel.
I'll take some pictures, draw it and do a write up. I don't know if it's anymore accurate than a professional shop with all their equipment. But for a do it yourself, it's good.;)

[nizmainiac]

i say you got what you asked for.....BMW do specify certain weight(s) in the car....I would have got out of that place a soon it was evident hey didnt know what they were doing...There is no reason to have the car running.

i think its either a 100 or a 150 kilos in each seat and a full tank of gas , from memory

[Ken35i]

This is how I did it. It takes a bit of space, time and maybe another person would help. I quickly set up the car to take pictures for this to make this easier.

1) Have about 3 meters of driveway in front of your car.

2) Put the car up on stands; front and rear. Enough so you can under there.

3) Lock the steering wheel in the 'straight ahead' position. i.e. taking the key out and turning the steering wheel left and right slightly to lock it in the straight ahead position. You know...

4) After that; you need to lay down the 'center line' of the car. You'll need 3 of blocks of wood (the bigger the better), 3 nails, string-line and a few bricks to use as weights to keep the string taut. Hammer a nail into one of the blocks but only a bit, you want about half of the nail sticking out of the wood.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/UnderCenter.jpg
You can use these points; measure the distance with a measuring tape, place a block of wood with a nail in it in the middle of the distance you measured. Of course you want the nail to be at the middle point of the distance.
Do the same with the front end of the car. Then tie the string-line on the rear-end nail, run it past the front-end nail so that it is just touching it, don't loop it or have it so the nail bends the string line.
Then run the string-line out in front of the car (I had mine about 2.5meters in front of the car) and tie it around the 3rd nail in a block. Once you have made sure that the nails under the car are in the middle of the measuring points, find a datum line for the nail out the front of your car. The datum can be a fence or the side of the house. Take the measurement and write it down. This is just incase you accidentally kick the block off its mark. I've done it many times, I'd stand up to walk somewhere and my fat foot would kick the block or string line; so if this happens just measure from your datum line and put the block back where it was.

5) Now that your center-line is set up, it's time to set up the wheel lines (front wheels). You will need 2 blocks of wood with nails, a couple of bricks and 2 string-lines (1 for each wheel).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/LinesUp.jpg
What I've done here is run a string line IN one of the tire tread grooves around once then brought it out to the side of the tire and run it out to the front of the car. Bit hard to see but that little lip on the tire next to the edge of the rim is the widest point of the tire and I used these points to line up the tire with the string.
Ran the string out to the front of the car and tied it to the block of wood with a nail in it.
Do the same with the other wheel and you will have something, basically, like this...

[Ken35i]

6) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/FrontLines.jpg
...except with strings and blocks of wood...
AC, EF and BD are string lines. AEB and CFD are measuring points. The goal here is have the distance between points AE, EB, CF and FD the same that way the wheels are pointing in the same direction (ahead) and are parallel.

In my case my steering as a whole was out so both of the wheels were pointing in the same direction (parallel) so this was actually easy to fix than having both wheels pointing in different directions.

So set up the wheel string lines so that they are just touching the edge of your tires (i.e. in line with your wheels), like the picture above, not like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/InLine.jpg
or this.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/OutLine.jpg.

Setting it up like this shows you how out of line your wheels are and you can adjust accordingly.

7) To find out if your wheels are parallel, measure the distance between AB and CD, if they are the same, they are parallel and you can adjust each wheel equally. The way I did it is to move the string lines until they are pointing straight ahead; you will need to measure from the centre line to move the string lines by the same distance. Once you’re happy that distances CF and FD are the same may start adjusting the tie rods until the edge of your tire is just touching the string line, this is where you might need your friend, or who ever, to tell you when you’ve touched the string line while you’re under the car adjusting. Remember; on one side of the car the front of the wheel will be moving away from the string line, and the other side of the car, the front of the wheel will be moving toward the string line.

Once distances AE, EB, CF and FD are the same, tighten your tie rods and you’re done.

8) If your wheels are not parallel then you will need to do a similar procedure, as above, only for each wheel. First; if one of your wheels pointing outward then adjust it so it is pointing inward so the string line is not touching the front of the wheel. Then; move the string line so that the distance of AE and CF are the same (will help if a second person held the measuring tape to the string line). Once you’re happy with distances being the same then, like above, adjust the tie rob until the tire just touches the string line.

Same deal with other wheel. Again; once distances AE, EB, CF and FD are the same, tighten the tie rods and you’re done.

And that is it. Take it for a drive and see how it is. Might seem crazy but I’ve done this and it works. Seems like a lot of setting up, but it should only need to be done if you have done some major work on the steering and the wheels are out of line so much that you don’t feel comfortable to drive it to a ‘shop. I didn’t feel comfortable driving to a ‘shop because the car was unregistered. Heehaw.

Let me know if anythign is unclear.

[e34.535i.sport]

Let me know if anythign is unclear.

First of all THANKS! Brilliant write up, you must have went to a lot of effort for that. You should put that info in a new thread and title it alignment or whatnot so it can be found in the archive...

I'll definitely be giving it a go myself next time I do some work up front. (I bet it's soon!).

Can I jut ask one thing - Why do you need the rear of the car jacked up? And do you think you'd get away without jacking the front up if you could get some plates or something under there? (I'm sorry for my ignorance!)

[e34.535i.sport]

I reckon your job is maths related... Am I right?

[E34-520iSE]

Aren't these cars supposed to have some 'toe-in'? I added a mil or so to mine to accomodate for braking etc.

Cheers,

Shaun M

[Ken35i]

First of all THANKS! Brilliant write up, you must have went to a lot of effort for that. You should put that info in a new thread and title it alignment or whatnot so it can be found in the archive...

I'll definitely be giving it a go myself next time I do some work up front. (I bet it's soon!).

Can I jut ask one thing - Why do you need the rear of the car jacked up? And do you think you'd get away without jacking the front up if you could get some plates or something under there? (I'm sorry for my ignorance!)

You're welcome! I'll consider it for the archives (clean it up ect.). :)
To find the middle between the rear wheels you'd need enough room to get under there and measure, wouldn't need to be much. Yes you need to jack up the front to adjust the wheels.


Aren't these cars supposed to have some 'toe-in'? I added a mil or so to mine to accomodate for braking etc.

Cheers,

Shaun M

Yeah maybe, I'll have to look that up.


I reckon your job is maths related... Am I right?
No, but I did study Mechanical Engineering. But at the moment by job isn't. :(

[Ken35i]

Aren't these cars supposed to have some 'toe-in'? I added a mil or so to mine to accomodate for braking etc.

Cheers,

Shaun M

Yes they are. Bentley manual says 0deg18minutes total; that's 9minutes inward each wheel. This is where a bit of maths is involved. Will have to wait for the weekend; winter here, not much daylight when I get home.

[Paul in NZ]

Yes they are. Bentley manual says 0deg18minutes total; that's 9minutes inward each wheel. This is where a bit of maths is involved. Will have to wait for the weekend; winter here, not much daylight when I get home.

9 minutes? thats .317 deg over the width of the tire x tan .317 = x mm :)

[E34-520iSE]

But the resulting toe angle 'X' will differ depending on the wide of the tyre, wont it? Should the toe angle not be the same for any width of tyre?

Just curious,

Shaun M

[Ken35i]

Okay folks, here's the rest of it. Adjusting toes.

9) Now that you have set your wheels straight and parallel; it’s time to adjust some toe in. According to the Bentley manual the E34 should have a total of 0deg18minutes toe in, that’s 9minutes each wheel inward.
So this is the set up for 1 wheel…
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/LinesAngle.jpg
Excuse my French, but we’re going to use metric. :D
I made the adjacent length 2meters long (from the point where string touches the edge of the tire, discussed further up). And we need to adjust 9minutes; which in degrees is 0.15. We get this because there is 60minutes in 1degree, so 9/60=0.15degrees.
So we have 2 knows and 1 unknown, the opposite length. So we use this formula:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/TanTheta.png
Put in our known values and do the math. You can use the Microsoft calculator; set it to scientific mode and set calculator in degrees.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/kenskee/OppLength.jpg
0.005meters or 5mm. Not much is it?
So we need to move the block of wood 5mm towards the center line, use your tape measure or ruler as a guide. Now the string line, which is now slightly bent by the wheel, is in the line where the wheel should be. So we need to adjust the tie-rod. I over adjusted so the tire would move away from the string, then moved the tire outward so the tire was JUST touching the string line (just like I did further up). Tighten the tie-rods and you’re away!
The other side of the car is a mirror of this side.
Of course you can change the values in the formula if you have a different adjacent length and/or want to have a different toe-in angle.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Tire stores must be the same there as here, only yank mucking fuppets.
Special weighting consists of weighting the car to simulate a driver and passenger on board. Last time I read the newspaper in the driver's seat while the muppets toyed. To no avail as the job was botched anyway.
"while she was guzzling away"? You left it running? Is this their interpretation of "special weighting"?
All that can be adjusted is toe anyway. Look up your countryman BarneyPaulEdwards. I suspect he can do it with a measured length of rope and some rocks.
Whats with the bloody rocks?? Thats what you throw at the muppets! Seriously,running thin string round the whole car will soon tell you how the front and rear tracking is, its easier if you have wheels close to the outside of the car but doable non the less. I loop the string from front left by attaching it to inner wing bolts,round the wheel and back to rear wheel,then under car to other rear wheel and forwards.Any in/out differences will be obvious but how you adjust is up to you!

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Sorry all been beaten to it by a far better bodger than myself. Comes to the same thing and saves a bomb, I keep string hanging in corner of shed.