Can any of you Steering guru's confirm this one???

[e34.535i.sport]

I've recently replaced upper/lower control arms, shocks and mounts... Tie rods and sway links done not too long back.

After the revamp of the front end it drove really nice for a while then I started getting a little knocking noise on the pasenger side when going over little bumps... Naturally I suspect the sway link - check it out and the boot is ripped to shreds. I jumped the gun and changed it today but the noise is still there! :(

Now, other symptoms after careful consideration include 'loose' steering and a knock when hitting the brakes sharply at low speeds...

The knocking noise always happens when I go over a 'lip' of pavement on the way into my drive. The funny thing is it only makes the noise when the wheel is turned to the left???!! When it happens you can feel it through the wheel too... If I turn the wheel right or have it straight forward and go over the lip then no noise or feeling.

My prognosis is the IDLER arm (the one that bolts to the centre tie rod and the chassis - I've done some research!!!!), does this sound right to anyone? Has anybody experienced this part fail before and had similar symptoms?

Just looking for a more concrete diagnosis before jumping the gun again and getting another unnecessary part! I have tried to move it by hand and it feels tight - but I know from experience this can be misleading... Any input much appreciated...

[genphreak]

1. Check for loose bolts in good light. If unsure maybe remove and inspect the threads so you know they are tightening ok.

2. thrust arm bushing broken- if you did it, did you have the car on level ground when tightening the thrust arm bushing bolts? The stock bsuhes only have so much 'give', so if they are tightened with the suspension at the wrong height they rip internally and cause erratic noises and/or behaviour... if someone else did the work, you can be sure unless they can convince you (properly) that they did the right thing.

If you are sure the right thing was done, next thing to check is the front spring not seated on th side you get the noise (depending on the noise- we can't tell you about that but the spring shifting on its seat is obviously more a twang, not so much a knock)

If you are still stumped after this, remove the sway bar to see if the links are the cause.

[e34.535i.sport]

1. Check for loose bolts in good light. If unsure maybe remove and inspect the threads so you know they are tightening ok.

2. thrust arm bushing broken- if you did it, did you have the car on level ground when tightening the thrust arm bushing bolts? The stock bsuhes only have so much 'give', so if they are tightened with the suspension at the wrong height they rip internally and cause erratic noises and/or behaviour... if someone else did the work, you can be sure unless they can convince you (properly) that they did the right thing.

If you are sure the right thing was done, next thing to check is the front spring not seated on th side you get the noise (depending on the noise- we can't tell you about that but the spring shifting on its seat is obviously more a twang, not so much a knock)

If you are still stumped after this, remove the sway bar to see if the links are the cause.

Hey thanks - I've checked all nuts and bolts with the torque wrench and all good. :)

I actually jacked up under the wheel hub to simulate the weight of the vehicle before tightening the pivot bolts up but I'll get it on ramps today and try to retorque under normal load. I have the 750i bushes at the moment so don't want to ruin them too quickly! :p

I checked on the seating of the coil too and no problems there, I had that last time I took the shocks off and learnt a lesson!

The sway link shouldn't be the problem as I replaced the noisy side yesterday... No change :(

I might take the idler arm off while I'm under there today... Didn't really want to go to the trouble of taking it off, putting back on to get the part and then changing it!!

[632 Regal]

clunks like that are usually loose/worn balljoints. Very hard to check for but the telltale is a clunk while jabbing the brake at very slow speeds.

New parts... if not Lemforder good as junk IMO, I could tear a 750 bushing up as soon as it was installed, the M5 bushing is one tough mother. If the bushing is already torn can cause a clunk.

Usually an idler arm or steering parts dont make the clunk thing. Sure the arms are installed on the correct side? They will install on the wrong side...LOL I wont mention names.

[e34.535i.sport]

clunks like that are usually loose/worn balljoints. Very hard to check for but the telltale is a clunk while jabbing the brake at very slow speeds.

New parts... if not Lemforder good as junk IMO, I could tear a 750 bushing up as soon as it was installed, the M5 bushing is one tough mother. If the bushing is already torn can cause a clunk.

Usually an idler arm or steering parts dont make the clunk thing. Sure the arms are installed on the correct side? They will install on the wrong side...LOL I wont mention names.


LOL - defo installed correctly! The big L & R gave it away! (I assume that the LEFT and RIGHT mean as you are sitting in the drivers seat????!!!!)

Just had it on ramps - got the GF to sit in the passenger seat and undone/retorqued pivot bolts just incase. Then done the same on the drivers side. Also while I was under there I had access to the idler arm so I took it off and inspected... It looked ok as far as I could tell. The parts I got weren't Lemf' unfortunately but the other side has been perfect since and they seem like they're good quality. Balljoints are all good and bushings seem as new.

Checked the seating of the spring on that side too - all ok, and tightened up the top mounting nuts for the suspension. I had previously checked the torque on all balljoint nuts too.

EVERYTHING seems tight down there which is really bugging me. Also, its only when the wheel is turned to the left. OR Jabbing the brake at low speeds... This is the key I think, but I just can't think what it could be after checking the rest.

Luckily though while I was down there I noticed a small leak from the sump plug as it has loosened... Tightened it up and all good.

Bloody car keeps me on my toes... (normally walking because its broken! LOL! :p)

[NovceGuru]

clunks like that are usually loose/worn balljoints. Very hard to check for but the telltale is a clunk while jabbing the brake at very slow speeds.

New parts... if not Lemforder good as junk IMO, I could tear a 750 bushing up as soon as it was installed, the M5 bushing is one tough mother. If the bushing is already torn can cause a clunk.

Usually an idler arm or steering parts dont make the clunk thing. Sure the arms are installed on the correct side? They will install on the wrong side...LOL I wont mention names.


Shut up :(

[genphreak]

Best also check the shock absorber's top nut. These tighten until the shock shaft spins, you might need some vice grips on the very top part of the shaft(i usually put a little bit of rubber in their teeth to stop them damaging the shaft)... I've seen this cause noise with suspension travel.

[Ferret]

When you figure this out, let me know! I've been chasing a nearside clunk since I got the car :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Been down there again today with the torque wrench... All nut's and bolts seem to be well torqued. The only ones I didn't check were the control arm balljoint nuts. I've checked them before but I'll prob check them again tomorrow. I also checked the top nut on the shock was tight... seemed sound.

Spring was seated well still, even with the wheel turned to the left.

I might take the strut assembly off again to check that the collar nut for the shock is tight enough. I cant see it being that though because that wouldn't make a noise when I Jab the brake but I'll try anything at the moment.

THe passenger side seems like a weak link with my car, when anything oges wrong its always on that side! The drivers side seems strong and planted, the passenger side feels loose and soft.

I feel like taking a baseball bat to the thing sometimes!!!! :p

[632 Regal]

strut collar is possible, use a pipe wrench to tighten it up while jacked up. the only when turned left comment is interesting though. It may be possible the strut mount is worn but the only when turned left... strange

[Ferret]

strut collar is possible, use a pipe wrench to tighten it up while jacked up. the only when turned left comment is interesting though. It may be possible the strut mount is worn but the only when turned left... strange

Given the appalling state of the roads over here, he could have hit a foot deep pothole on full lock left...

[e34.535i.sport]

strut collar is possible, use a pipe wrench to tighten it up while jacked up. the only when turned left comment is interesting though. It may be possible the strut mount is worn but the only when turned left... strange

Thanks I'll give it a go tomorrow... Things are evolving though - Its now doing the noise no matter which may the wheel is turned. I hope I'm not ruining my good parts by running it with something amiss.

The Sway bar bushes have now also become a suspect, as I am running out of options. And now I've got a rattle at the back too which is driving me mad.

Went to get the wheels balanced before which has rid me of a 50mph shimmy I had... But I managed to snap the key into one of the locking nuts putting it back on like a muppet. I got lucky to get the broken peice out again and I have a spare key. Someone up there must still like me...

[Ferret]

Thanks I'll give it a go tomorrow... Things are evolving though - Its now doing the noise no matter which may the wheel is turned. I hope I'm not ruining my good parts by running it with something amiss.

The Sway bar bushes have now also become a suspect, as I am running out of options. And now I've got a rattle at the back too which is driving me mad.

Went to get the wheels balanced before which has rid me of a 50mph shimmy I had... But I managed to snap the key into one of the locking nuts putting it back on like a muppet. I got lucky to get the broken peice out again and I have a spare key. Someone up there must still like me...

Sounds like mine at the moment, so many bits falling apart and not enough time to fix it all up :/ Wife's going crackers at the moment!

[e34.535i.sport]

Sounds like mine at the moment, so many bits falling apart and not enough time to fix it all up :/ Wife's going crackers at the moment!

I'm hearing you on that one!!! It's really annoying and then she makes it worse by whining about how much it costs to keep it running! :(

I'm contemplating getting myself a motorbike at the moment and replacing the 5er... :(

It'll be a sad day when I do let her go... (the missus or the 5????!!!!! LOL!)

[e34.535i.sport]

Update: I got under yesterday and removed the steering plate that attaches to the underside of the hub and popped he lower and upper control arm balljoints and put them back in... Re-attached the steering plate and the noise is still there.

[Ferret]

I figured out what my clunking noise is, the poly bushes fitted to the thrust arms by the PO have collapsed.

The arms are sliding up and down on the bushings, contacting the bodywork and transmitting loads of road noise into the vehicle.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

LOL!! Been chasing that knock for three years, replaced the bloody lot, even dropped the idler bush checked tolerance (good) greased and replaced. After wailing the cr.... out of it round Europe the slight knock still there but only on UK rough roads.Live with it.........!

[e34.535i.sport]

LOL!! Been chasing that knock for three years, replaced the bloody lot, even dropped the idler bush checked tolerance (good) greased and replaced. After wailing the cr.... out of it round Europe the slight knock still there but only on UK rough roads.Live with it.........!

I think I'm going to have to! I've checked and rechecked everything now, and I've had enough. I'm lucky that it's not all the time, it's only when I hit a harsh 'lip' in pavement or whatever. However even if the lip is only and inch or two it lets me know.

I hate it so much!

[Allen]

I know that you said that you checked everything but I had the same type of noise, only occured when I turned right though. When I went back through everything I found that some how I had not torqued down the three bolts that attach the strut assembly to the plate that the tie rod and control arms attach.

[e34.535i.sport]

I know that you said that you checked everything but I had the same type of noise, only occured when I turned right though. When I went back through everything I found that some how I had not torqued down the three bolts that attach the strut assembly to the plate that the tie rod and control arms attach.

Hey thanks - I've definitely torqued those down - twice! Can I ask what torque you done yours too? I have mine torqued to 70nm at the moment but maybe they need to be tighter?

[AngryPopTart]

It'll be a sad day when I do let her go... (the missus or the 5????!!!!! LOL!)

Well, I love her,
But I love my Five,
I spend all day out in the garage,
To keep that six alive,
But today she met me at the door,
Said I would have to choose,
If I touch that '89 today,
She'd be packin' all her things,
And she'd be gone by noon,

......

Well, I'M GONNA MISS HER!

[Allen]

I would have to double check my Bently manual to see what spec is but I would think around 70nm/51lbft would be about right. That would certainly be tight enought to keep it from moving around.

[e34.535i.sport]

I would have to double check my Bently manual to see what spec is but I would think around 70nm/51lbft would be about right. That would certainly be tight enought to keep it from moving around.

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's right too, but may tighten them up a touch just incase.

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Obviously this is not just our problem....I too have tried everything possible which is why I said "live with it",my best guess was strut top mounts but they made no difference,somebody suggeted that the register on the strut body was loose on the body below the retainer,no luck there either,but it MAY be the distance/length of the shock top with no thread is longer that the strut top mount so needing a spacer BELOW the mount, thats my next move when I get the motivation.....

[e34.535i.sport]

Obviously this is not just our problem....I too have tried everything possible which is why I said "live with it",my best guess was strut top mounts but they made no difference,somebody suggeted that the register on the strut body was loose on the body below the retainer,no luck there either,but it MAY be the distance/length of the shock top with no thread is longer that the strut top mount so needing a spacer BELOW the mount, thats my next move when I get the motivation.....

For me it's only on one side so I guess it's not a part 'fitting' fault... My next move is powerflex thrust arm bushes... I reckon they're the end of my noise for good... Well i hope!

[genphreak]

For me it's only on one side so I guess it's not a part 'fitting' fault... My next move is powerflex thrust arm bushes... I reckon they're the end of my noise for good... Well i hope!I've 3 e34s and 3 e28s myself. None of them did this once the bushings were replaced with poly bushings (which you can see deteriorating) or unbroken good ones. Top strut mount would show signs of failure before making noise... Good luck! Change the bushings and you should be done...

[e34.535i.sport]

Still chasing it... got the clunk still and I've investigated further by removing the anti-roll bar and driving a lttle without it (only in out close!). Noise was still there so it;s not anti-roll bar related!

I also have an 80mph shimmy and if I try to brake out of it it gets angry! Classic thrust arm bush I reckon... I'm going for the Powerflex bushes!!!!

[Ferret]

Still chasing it... got the clunk still and I've investigated further by removing the anti-roll bar and driving a lttle without it (only in out close!). Noise was still there so it;s not anti-roll bar related!

I also have an 80mph shimmy and if I try to brake out of it it gets angry! Classic thrust arm bush I reckon... I'm going for the Powerflex bushes!!!!

Hah, I'll be doing the poweflex bushings shortly, my thrust arms are sliding up and down on the current poly bushings! Getting really annoying when you drop the anchors hard on the M4 because some tit's just cut you off doing 40mph less than you, and the arms shift and you go veering off to one side :D Kinda dangerous, but kinda fun in that 'you never know when you're gonna die' way.

Now if I could only get the other cars to veer out of my way I'd be happy...

[genphreak]

That's all the symptoms you need. Its just bushings. Once the upper arms are off, (be very careful not to damage the rubber boots, yank the lower arms around and see if the lower ones have worrisome play. If they do, you'd best do them too.

I tend to just replace the arms and the bushes- to be sure I have good boots, good bushes and don't have to do it again...

[e34.535i.sport]

That's all the symptoms you need. Its just bushings. Once the upper arms are off, (be very careful not to damage the rubber boots, yank the lower arms around and see if the lower ones have worrisome play. If they do, you'd best do them too.

I tend to just replace the arms and the bushes- to be sure I have good boots, good bushes and don't have to do it again...

Ha, I won't be doing it again for a while I can tell you that! The suspension had it's attention quota - about ten yrs worth... and I haven't even had it 2 yrs! :p

I replaced the lowers with the uppers... so they should be sound. I'm not going to remove the balljoint end... I plan to take the plate with the lower/upper arms still in it into work, I have access to a press. It's not designed for car work, but it should get the old bushes out.

POWERFLEX bushes are on route!!! WOO!!! £45 quid but worth every penny if they shut up that clunk and stop the annoying shimmy! I'm going to keep resurrecting this thread until these symptoms are dead and buried! :D

[Tiger]

so what is the result? Was it the upper control arm bushing? I am chasing the same clunk you are.

[Ferret]

so what is the result? Was it the upper control arm bushing? I am chasing the same clunk you are.

Assuming they arrive I'll also be seeing if the powerflex bushings sort this bloody clunk out this weekend!

[e34.535i.sport]

so what is the result? Was it the upper control arm bushing? I am chasing the same clunk you are.

Well it did get rid of it for a short time but it reared it's ugly head again shortly after! It just so happens I got some POWERFLEX thrust bushes through the post today - We'll see if they get rid of it! I'm gonna try to get them in tonight but I'll be lucky with this weather... I'll keep you updated! :D

[e34.535i.sport]

P.S Yes I've only just got them now - the service I got was ridiculous. I was going to email for a refund if they didn't come today so it must have been fate. :)

[e34.535i.sport]

My resident clunk has been evicted!!! :D Got the first powerflex bush in and took it on a short test run before removing the steering plate on the other side... What a result no more clunk in the usual places! :D

I'll update once the job is done!

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Powerflex thrust bushes? Where from and did you get the part number, could be owing you a beer or two................

[e34.535i.sport]

Powerflex thrust bushes? Where from and did you get the part number, could be owing you a beer or two................

Hehe sounds good to me! I got them from an ebay seller called Amberperformance... He sells them in full sets for the front and rear but I mailed him saying how much for just the thrust arms - £45 quid for the two. Only prob with this guy is it ended up taking a few weeks to get them... He blamed the manufacturer making him wait... He did keep in touch when I mailed him over it so that is to his credit I suppose. Part number is PFF5-601 and you obviously need two of those they don't come as a pair! :D

[sal_park]

Hi Guys,

Just read this thread - interesting as I've just gone through most of this myself (thrust arms, control arms, antiroll bar links, disc's & pads - see picture below).

One thing that occurs to me is that the 3 steering plate bolts need to be locktited with locktite (sp?) 270 - not seen this mentioned above so I though I'd chip in :)

Here's what my NS looked like the other day after it was all fitted:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/2840164635_6446c2ce50_b.jpg

.

[Ferret]

Hi Guys,

Just read this thread - interesting as I've just gone through most of this myself (thrust arms, control arms, antiroll bar links, disc's & pads - see picture below).

One thing that occurs to me is that the 3 steering plate bolts need to be locktited with locktite (sp?) 270 - not seen this mentioned above so I though I'd chip in :)

Here's what my NS looked like the other day after it was all fitted:

<snip>

.

I'd be a bit careful about locktiting those bolts ... it may be that when you come to undoing them a bit down the line you'll shear them off!

[sal_park]

I'd be a bit careful about locktiting those bolts ... it may be that when you come to undoing them a bit down the line you'll shear them off!

Better than them falling off when driving at speed though ? Either way, it's what the bentley recommends and presumably what BMW did when they were new. Also I'd doubt that you would shear them, they are quite big :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Better than them falling off when driving at speed though ? Either way, it's what the bentley recommends and presumably what BMW did when they were new. Also I'd doubt that you would shear them, they are quite big :D

We managed to sheer a bolt almost twice as thick on the captains e36 so I wouldn't discount it! I haven't locktighted them - and won't be in future to be honest. I've had them on and off more times than most pppl have had hot dinners and they've never loosened off on their own... Also I think you would notice there was something wrong before they all fell out while driving! :D