The 535 won't start, gotta be electrical, help please.

[BFEINZIMER]

So after my accident I've had the car garaged, I took it out a few times, had to jump it once a few weeks ago but drove it and yea. Started it a few days ago, ran it for a few mins, then the next day it would not start. Finally got a chance to try and jump it today and it was a no go. First we hooked it up and it cranked for a sec but nothing. Then I decided to wait, took the key out of the ignition but the obc center display stayed on displaying "Fasten Belts" along with a few other dash lights. I was puzzled. We disconnected, switched sides of the cables, and repeated about 2 times but these times not even clicking. And all the while the Brake Fluid light stayed lit dimly in the dash. So I disconnected the neg terminal of the batt a few times for a few seconds each time, it went off but on each re-connect the light lit up. Well we hooked up the jumpers again, waited several minutes while revving the other car, and tried to start the E34, no clicks nothing. Any ideas please? That Brake Fluid light will just continue to drain the batt. and I have no idea why its on. Note the car does have LoJack so consider its small battery. Also, we did get a spark on connection of the neg jumper cable each time although sometimes it was tiny and sometimes it was significantly visible (what I would consider normal). Battery is also just a few months old. Thanks!

UPDATE: Went out about 20 mins later to push car into garage, dash lights were off, and when I turned the key to II some came on dimly, but shut off once I removed the key.

On the note of what I'll do with the E34. I'm accepting Farmers check, the E34 will take a salvage title, Tim and Kim are going to help me repair anything mechanical and I'll try to buff out some of the paint stuff. Then flip the wheels, tires and anything else I have a stock part for and then sell the E34 to another BMW person who want to fix it up. So yea. :(

[Tiger]

Go to bmwe34.net for hints on electrical repairs... I am guessing fusible links. A short somewhere.

[Ross]

Connect directly to the battery and give it time to recharge.
Even with good cables I've had little luck jump starting a BM with a really low battery.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well I;ve had to jump it a few times over the past few years all for reasons that we're resolved previously, but we jumped it with these cables a few weeks ago and it worked fine. Other than the fusible link are there any other ideas? Can a trickle charger directly connected to the battery do anything possible to harm it, or the car? When I connect those chargers anywho, do you leave the car's electrical system hooked up or completely disconnect it when you connect the charger? Thanks!

[BFEINZIMER]

How likely is it the fusible link? I won't be able to check until tomorrow afternoon or even Friday morning...and I've read there are 2. Is the 80A wrapped in plastic that I have to unravel, or in a plastic case with clips? And should I completely disconnect the battery before messing with it, or just one end? Thanks!

[sal_park]

switch behind the ignition barrel ?

[BFEINZIMER]

switch behind the ignition barrel ?

I've never even heard of that. Please things that won't freak me out!

[Tiger]

Disconnect the battery cable and charge up the battery with trickle charger first.

[bubba966]

Disconnect the battery cable and charge up the battery with trickle charger first.

+1

When the big ass batteries on these E34's go really dead they won't start with a jump. Yeah, you jumped it a couple of weeks ago when it was dead. But a few weeks later it's got even less juice in it than it had the last time.

And when the battery on an E34 is almost dead it'll have weird stuff go on with the instrument cluster.

I'd bet that if you let the battery charge for a few days it'll crank over fine and start and your instrument cluster will be back to normal.

[BFEINZIMER]

Hm I'll def hook up that charger tonight, how long (on avg.) do you think it will take to charge the big ass thing? I want to have it up by Saturday morning...If its not finished by then should I jump it then just to get it up?

Also do you think its worth pushing the car out of the garage to check the fusible link or the batt just needs a good strong charge? One thing I did note is that when those lights were staying on in the cluster, they did not get brighter durring the jumping operation, even when the other engine was being reved. Weird or normal?

[Tiger]

Sounds like alternator problem when cluster light is on while ignition is off... However, I am not quite sure... Seems like you got a short somewhere.... door switch? by the impact area?

Trickle charger... probably takes a whole day. If it has automatic charging, it will vary the amperage charging the battery until it is fully charged.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well I really hope the accident did not bring up any electrical gremlins. I'm just weirded out by how on the first attempt on the jump yesterday it clicked for a second and when we tried it everytime there after it wouldent even do that much...so do you think its worth checking the link?

[tim eh?]

Sounds like alternator problem when cluster light is on while ignition is off... However, I am not quite sure... Seems like you got a short somewhere.... door switch? by the impact area?

Trickle charger... probably takes a whole day. If it has automatic charging, it will vary the amperage charging the battery until it is fully charged.

i had a problem on a '83 dodge where eventually the ignition would stay on no matter what you did with the key - had to disconnect the battery cable to turn it off. turned out to be a rotten starter relay... obviously this is apples and oranges but i would for sure check continuity for the whole battery/starter/alternator circuit and any related relays.

[BFEINZIMER]

I wish I could ask on how to check continunity and such but our multimeter is mia, and the only person that I know that has one is my ex gf's dad haha so that's prob out of the question :/

[Tiger]

Took a look at your pictures again... not a whole lotta damages that I can see that affects your electrical works. It is possible your starter might have a short there... take a look for any metal contact.

Then I would look at the door switches to see if any contacts there too... just pull out the switch from the jamb.

[Ross]

I wish I could ask on how to check continunity and such but our multimeter is mia, and the only person that I know that has one is my ex gf's dad haha so that's prob out of the question :/
Meter schmeter, get the battery charged or try a new/different one.
Low voltage causes these cars to do all sorts of bizzare things, don't worry about the rest until you have a strong battery. If the drain persists you may then begin diagnostics. As is with a dead battery you will chasing red herrings.

[BFEINZIMER]

Can you throw up an image of the starter? To get to that door jam I'd havta pull the car out, and dam pushing the car up my tiny incline back in the garage is a bittttt*h!

[tim eh?]

I wish I could ask on how to check continunity and such but our multimeter is mia, and the only person that I know that has one is my ex gf's dad haha so that's prob out of the question :/

well you could still visually double-check the electrical connections at the starter and alternator for breaks or rust or just loose a bit - maybe something got cracked or squished in the accident? ... charging the battery is good... i just had bad battery terminal clamps once too.

[BFEINZIMER]

Thanks ross ill hook it up tonight and see what it gets me...how many hours should I give it before I attempt a start? Though I guess I can just geta good indication of power by seeing if the interior lights turn on haha. Aso f

[BFEINZIMER]

It will be hard since the alternator is so deep, where exactly is the starter guys? Excuse my ignorance

[Tiger]

Lots of info at bmwe34.net!

[BFEINZIMER]

Haha figured there would be pics there, cept I'm on my blackberry in class tho :P ill check out more in like 30 mins when I can jump on a computer and post any further questions. If I do decide to check the fusible link while I have the batt disconected anyway, what should I do to open it, so I don't get stuck when I get to that point?

[bubba966]

Really, don't bother with the fusible link or anything else for that matter until you've got a decent charge on the battery. Having dealt with dead batteries in E34's I'd bet you good money that your only problem is a seriously dead battery.

Last time my old battery crapped out so bad it couldn't be jumped I had it on the charger @10A for 3 or 4 hours and that was more than enough to get the car running fine again. Trickle charge is usually in the 2A range. If using that setting I'd give it at least a day.

[Ferret]

Really, don't bother with the fusible link or anything else for that matter until you've got a decent charge on the battery. Having dealt with dead batteries in E34's I'd bet you good money that your only problem is a seriously dead battery.

Last time my old battery crapped out so bad it couldn't be jumped I had it on the charger @10A for 3 or 4 hours and that was more than enough to get the car running fine again. Trickle charge is usually in the 2A range. If using that setting I'd give it at least a day.

Yeah, if you let a wet cell battery escape into 'deep' discharge, it's very very hard to get them back. Sounds like the OP has something draining current somewhere and it's knackered the battery over however long its been laid up.

[BFEINZIMER]

Can I rechage the batt with the charger if its been "deep discharged"? Its just a few months old, the old batt had a wayy old date code it was like 10 some years old. Does this mean I might havta spring for a new batt? Once I get the car running, how long and often should I run it to maintain a proper charge on the batt?


Yeah, if you let a wet cell battery escape into 'deep' discharge, it's very very hard to get them back. Sounds like the OP has something draining current somewhere and it's knackered the battery over however long its been laid up.

[Tiger]

No... it won't hold charge. The trickle charger will go crazy on that type of battery. If you have a meter on that charger, you will see it flips from full charge to empty in seconds and repeats all over again. Or it goes into full charge and no more charging.

If it is a few months old, then go exchange it for new one and skip the charging... they will test your battery before giving you a new one... unless they are super swamped... then they might just give you a new battery.

Now put that Blackberry down and pay attention to the Professor... or juggies... whichever is closer.

[BFEINZIMER]

my dads charger is from the dinasour age and it does have a meter but I don't know if its "normal" or a "trickle" I just kinda of used the termonolgy. Neither would charge the big batt? If not I guess its a trip to Sears...removing the batt from the car to bring it in won't void the waranty?


No... it won't hold charge. The trickle charger will go crazy on that type of battery. If you have a meter on that charger, you will see it flips from full charge to empty in seconds and repeats all over again. Or it goes into full charge and no more charging.

If it is a few months old, then go exchange it for new one and skip the charging... they will test your battery before giving you a new one... unless they are super swamped... then they might just give you a new battery.

Now put that Blackberry down and pay attention to the Professor... or juggies... whichever is closer.

[Tiger]

That charger will charge the big battery if the battery is in good shape. Use normal mode to charge the battery.

No. it won't void the warranty by bringing it in... bring it in with your reciept... they are a stickler for reciept. They can't expect people to tow their car in to change the battery.

[bubba966]

My 7 year old Douglas battery was ok after being discharged so low that it couldn't be jumped. It was no different than it was before. It wasn't great before, but it was still at the same level of performance after going dead and then being charged on the charger for a few hours as it was before it went dead on me.

As your battery is only a few months old it'll probably still hold a charge fine. Killing it probably knocked at least a few months of life off of it. But you're not going to be owning the car long enough for that to be any kind of issue.

You can either take it in and try to get them to give you a new one. Or you can let it charge and see how it is.

[BFEINZIMER]

Ok I'll throw it on the charger tonight and try to start it in the morning....overnight should be long enough rite? If the meter on the charger is acting whacky, should I just disconnect it and give up? Also is it best practice to remove the battery from the car since its in the rear seat, arnt they like 60 ponds or somthign crazy? although I coudl lift that haha.

[Tiger]

Yes... if it still act wacky after 30 minutes, then forgeddaboutit. More like 40 lb... it got handles and that helps alot.

[BFEINZIMER]

So I pulled the battery, and it was not held in by either of the two braces that are supposed to be in place, maybe I should ask Sears about that? Anywho, I opened the small plastic box for the fusible link, the metal contact was gradually lifted toward the middle but completely in tact, how can I get to the second link?

I put the batt on our charger which has a maintenance free battery setting, and its a 10 amp charger...any wild guesses on how long it will take for the needle to return to zero and be fully charged? My buddy's dad has a multimeter but I'm guessing I won't be able to check the starter until the batt is charged. I'm going to vaccum out the underseat area and snap some pics, be back with them in a little bit.

[Tiger]

10A charger... should be a couple of hours... I'd say about 7 hours. That charger is more than enough for anyone... to charge up dead battery.

[BFEINZIMER]

Lookin good?:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/th_DSC_0318.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/DSC_0318.jpg)
What is this #1 (same side, next to batt.)?:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/th_DSC_0349.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/DSC_0349.jpg)
What is this #2 (same side, next to batt.)?:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/th_DSC_0350.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/DSC_0350.jpg)
What is this #3 (other side of the rear seat, drivers side)?:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/th_DSC_0356.jpg (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/DSC_0356.jpg)

And the object below the rear seat, on he batt. side it has a cover (over the carpet) and nut, it appears to be some kind of grounding thing...what is that?

[Tiger]

1 is fusible link.
2 is a connector... not sure what it is for. I think I got one of that too disconnected.
Don't know about the rest.

[BFEINZIMER]

Yea I'm trying to figure out what those 3 connecters are, and what that ground thingy is also. Heres a pic of it:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/BFEINZIMER/DSC_0358.jpg

BUT GOOD NEWS:

Around 2 am it was flickering between 3 and 3.5 amps so I decided to disconnect it and put it back in the car...bimmer fired RIGHT up, it was rough for a bit because of the computers reseting, ran it for about 15 mins and today I'm drive it before my 40 miles freeway trip Saturday. Anything I should look out for other than fluid levels? Thanks for ALL of everyones help.

[Ross]

the connection below the seat cushion is the main ground. Behind it is access to the connection. Handy way to disconnect the battery without removing the seat if the car is to sit a while. 750 owners REALLY appreciate this as the rear seat in those is a real bugger to r&r.

[BFEINZIMER]

really i can disconnect the battery from there??? do I just undo the bolt?

[Ross]

really i can disconnect the battery from there??? do I just undo the bolt?

Yep. Have a look where the negative cable goes to while the seat is out.

[bubba966]

Good to hear it was just a dead battery like I'd (and a few others) said. I would've left it on the charger longer as it wasn't fully charged yet when you pulled it off. But you can hook it back up when you're back from your Saturday trip and get it fully charged.

Must say I'm still a bit confused as to why you're going to sell it and go Japanese. $5,500 buys a whole lot of parts for that car, and that seemed to be your big concern is not having to drop $ on parts.

[BFEINZIMER]

Good to hear it was just a dead battery like I'd (and a few others) said. I would've left it on the charger longer as it wasn't fully charged yet when you pulled it off. But you can hook it back up when you're back from your Saturday trip and get it fully charged.

Must say I'm still a bit confused as to why you're going to sell it and go Japanese. $5,500 buys a whole lot of parts for that car, and that seemed to be your big concern is not having to drop $ on parts.

Well it kept flipping between 3 and 3.5 so I thought I read once it starts acting erratic take it off. It started strongly and I drove it about 30 miles each way the day after and been driving it every day since. Should I really put it back on?

Well I have to look long term. We are in an economic mess, meaning we should prepare. I'm a student. Keeping this car in good condition has cost $10,000+ including gas and insurance. Thats alot of money. If I sell the 535, I can take all that money and buy an economical Civic. Sure, I'll hate the way it drives, I'll hate it forever and ever, but I most likely won't be pouring money into it just to keep it running. I need to tool to get me to school and work and to go out. I love the bimmer but its killing me $ wise. Plus, If I spend the cash to fix it, and this happens again, which is totally likely, then what? Double screwed.

Yea it sucks and I'm heartbroken but it has to be done. After I finish a few things for school and work on claying the wheel and the paint to try to get rid of as much as I can from the accident, I'm going to put it up on the boards for sale. I got some suggestions on prices from some friends with E34s,E30s and a few E36's, variations in price due to having the Smoked Hella's on, and having OEM throwing stars on with almost new PS2's, or selling that all separately. So yea. Sucks.

[bubba966]

If the charger was still giving the battery 3-3.5A then it was still charging it. Should be giving it half that or less if it was charged. Do you really need to put it back on the charger? Not if you're dumping the car soon I guess. It's certainly charged enough for daily use and after a week or two of driving it like you've been doing it might be fully charged.

So you've spent $10k on the car since you bought it. How much of that was actually spent on parts for maintenance? I know smoked hellas, EAT chips, PS2's, T-Stars, etc. aren't maintenance items (and that's what, $3k right there?). How much of the typical maintenance 535's need have you already done? How much would you actually need to do over the next couple of years?

Like my car needs a bit of love in the parts area at the moment (radiator soon, shocks, and some front suspension parts) that's not going to be cheap. But when that's done, it'll be good for some time. Engine is a newer Alusil block and runs beautifully. Put a new tranny in last year. Driveline & diff are good for some time. Brakes are good for a long while. Battery just got slapped in 2 weeks ago.

Basically what I'm saying is that E34's are fairly reliable. By now people know what does and doesn't go wrong with them. And they know how long things last. So you should be able to figure out what your car would roughly cost you to run over the next few years. Is it really going to be that high?

[BFEINZIMER]

If the charger was still giving the battery 3-3.5A then it was still charging it. Should be giving it half that or less if it was charged. Do you really need to put it back on the charger? Not if you're dumping the car soon I guess. It's certainly charged enough for daily use and after a week or two of driving it like you've been doing it might be fully charged.

Well the most I'd be driving it any way would be 7 or so miles each way and it would prob. be at night, with the lights on (HID). So maybe I should hook it back up?


So you've spent $10k on the car since you bought it. How much of that was actually spent on parts for maintenance? I know smoked hellas, EAT chips, PS2's, T-Stars, etc. aren't maintenance items (and that's what, $3k right there?). How much of the typical maintenance 535's need have you already done? How much would you actually need to do over the next couple of years?

I see what you mean...though I have to consider because of the accident how much I would have to spend to fix the body. Right now the car needs to have the A/C (r12) recharged, need to fix the oil pan gasket (small oil leaks, "sweats oil" lol) and needs a few tiny covers and little parts. I could only pour money into what needs to be fixed, but thats still going to add up to thousands of dollars, and in the end, the car is the same value to the insurance, which means if I get in another accident I get screwed. As a college student, I really cannot afford to have this happen again. If I get a Honda for instance, the only thing I have to put into it is oil and a bit of gas. Thats my main reason. It is absolutely breaking my heart to leave the bimmer, but its a financial decision.


Like my car needs a bit of love in the parts area at the moment (radiator soon, shocks, and some front suspension parts) that's not going to be cheap. But when that's done, it'll be good for some time. Engine is a newer Alusil block and runs beautifully. Put a new tranny in last year. Driveline & diff are good for some time. Brakes are good for a long while. Battery just got slapped in 2 weeks ago.

Just as an example, I had my tranny rebuilt 2 years ago, just over $2k. But in the end, in the insurance company's eyes, it does almost nothing to the value. If I got hit or got into another accident, its basically throwing away my money.


Basically what I'm saying is that E34's are fairly reliable. By now people know what does and doesn't go wrong with them. And they know how long things last. So you should be able to figure out what your car would roughly cost you to run over the next few years. Is it really going to be that high?

I can't deny this, I LOVE my 535, its almost never let me down, and in the end when it has it was traced down to something understandable and fixable, and most of the time I've gotten tot he point where I'd never second guess the car starting when I needed it to. I'm kind of nervous getting a Honda, because I'm come to enjoy the "reliability" of the 535. It really is a great car. No doubt about it.

Sorry for the late reply but I've been doing a few papers. Looking forward to your reply.

[Tiger]

Don't worry about the battery. If I were you, I'd sell the car as is... keep all those receipts for other BMW owners who will come to take your car to use as a part car or they are willing to fix it up.

If you could... put back those old parts if you still hve them and sell the new parts. Wheels are easiest to swap out and I know you got them. Set your price of what you want to recover... put it on ebay... it cost you nothing until it is sold at your price. Lay everything out on the ebay... don't leave any details behind. Rebuilt transmission and good engine is already worth alot of money to someone.

[BFEINZIMER]

Well I might run up a few various totals for the car, the car w/wheels and headlights and so forth...

SOOOO tempting!!!

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/878998711.html

[Tiger]

Damn! Get it inspected before you buy it... Wow! I would have plunked on that... would do autocheck to see if there is anything to that car. You don't want to buy a car that change hand too many time recently.

[Ross]

Well I might run up a few various totals for the car, the car w/wheels and headlights and so forth...

SOOOO tempting!!!

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/878998711.html
Here is what I read between the lines on this one;
6 of 8 "maintenance "items were repairs
The statement about the rear links leads me to believe the current owner is short time, also a four year old radiator receipt from a previous owner may be the only documentation of any work done.
Performance and lighting are foremost concern to the current owner.
Stock hyperbole about the car tells nothing about condition.
No mileage stated so you know what that means.
Me thinks it's been driven hard and put away wet.

[Ferret]

Here is what I read between the lines on this one;
6 of 8 "maintenance "items were repairs
The statement about the rear links leads me to believe the current owner is short time, also a four year old radiator receipt from a previous owner may be the only documentation of any work done.
Performance and lighting are foremost concern to the current owner.
Stock hyperbole about the car tells nothing about condition.
No mileage stated so you know what that means.
Me thinks it's been driven hard and put away wet.

Nice looking car, HOWEVER

I'd be very, very, very suspicious of the transmission on this car.

These were fitted with the 2nd revision 6 speed getrags - which had nylon internal shift parts fitted.

A lot of people changed the transmission fluid to get away from the natural notchyness of the stock gearbox - and the additives in the new oil would cause the nylon shift components to swell up and break... Royal Purple was one of the names that kept popping up repeatedly with people and their broken getrags.

I came across a lot of this crap while looking for spares for my busted 6 speed - and there arent any parts out there on the market - if the box goes you have to buy a new one from bmw.

Try finding a scrap one that fits :)

Btw, there's drama all over the internet about this box, it wasnt just fitted to bimmers, it went into high power Mitsu road cars and something else as well - I cant remember off the top of my head.

It *could* be an excellent bargain, but thrash the box before you even think about parting with cash.

[BFEINZIMER]

Hm wow thank you for all the feed back on this car, this I why I love this community! :) However, I made a decision. Because I don't want to buy another BMW and pour money into upgrades I would want a certain one. I'm just going to save up till I find a 2001 540i6, silver exterior, (preferably dark interior), less than 100k miles, sport package. Any details you think I should seek out when looking for one of these in a few months?

[Tiger]

Anything is possible. So you abandoned your Honda route?

[BFEINZIMER]

Well I figured since the 01 540 sport has all the visual upgrades I'd want (shadowline, angel eyes, hid) I would not have to spend any more $ visually, just on maintenance items which is not such a bad prospect....am I making a mistake moving from an e34 to and e39 maintenance cost wise?

[Ross]

yes

[bubba966]

am I making a mistake moving from an e34 to and e39 maintenance cost wise?

Yes.

[Tiger]

You know... if you have the car inspected before you buy... you have to set aside $2000 for potential repairs... But buy when that car has everything you want at the right price in good condition. Don't buy to upgrade.

[Ferret]

Yes.

E39 = E34 with twice the floating link suspension and twice the trouble :P

[BFEINZIMER]

Haha I figure more features = more to go wrong with. I want another bimmer really bad but if I got an E34 id havta pour in the money to make it look like mine now...and If I picked up a silver 01' 540, cosmetically were all good in the hood. But dam our cars are expensive to maintain also, im torn :( honda - 540i :(

[bubba966]

E39 certainly has more electrical problems than an E34. And overall build quality isn't quite on par with the E34 which was built during the height of BMW's build quality. They didn't build 'em quite as good before the E34, and they didn't do it as well after the E34. If you want a little better mileage and nicer car why not get an E34 540? Or a 530 if you want some of the best mileage an E34 has to offer? Or if you want the ultimate E34, get yourself an M-Sport.

What all would you have to change on an E34 to make it look like your current one? Lights and T-Stars, what else? You've already got the lights and T-Stars so all you've got to do is swap 'em over. And hell, if you got yourself an M-Sport it's already got T-Stars on it (unless the PO changed the rims for some stupid reason).

Still not getting why you're just not fixing up the 535 and keeping it. But that's not for me to get...