Car not starting...

[Travis_WA]

Hey guys, bit of a problem with the car tonight. Stopped at a grocery store and when I went to leave, couldn't get her started.

The battery is fine, engine will fire for a couple seconds and then die. If it sits for a few minutes, it runs a couple seconds longer, whereas repeated starts it dies straight away.

Thought it might be bad gas, or the tank being a bit low and the car on a (very) slight incline, but adding another half gallon of gas didn't help.

Currently waiting until tomorrow to get it towed to the indie... Thinking it might be the fuel pump?

I have tomorrow to try whatever I can to get it started and avoid the tow, so any ideas would super helpful.

[bmwrp8]

I had the same problem a couple of years back, check your fuel pump as mine before it was the pump

[Travis_WA]

Yeah, that'll be the first thing I check. Trying to work out the best way to get it towed. Worst part of this might be having to drive the family S-10 around -_- the ride makes me cringe.

[BMWCCA1]

How far away was the store? M50 is known for flooding out after a short hop. Have you checked the plugs? Just a thought from a country away.

[Travis_WA]

Five miles or so. If it was flooding wouldn't it not want to fire at all, rather than run for a few seconds before dieing?

[bubba966]

Had this happen on a '95 525iT. Turned out to be a huge vac leak under the intake manifold. The plastic connector that connects the vac line from the ICV to the intake had snapped it's retaining clip off and it's come out of the manifold. $6 later at the dealer and the problem was fixed.

The car was also throwing a MAF code when it was doing this. And the MAF was never the problem (found that out after buying a new MAF after having no luck with a used one).

What code/codes is the car displaying on a stomp test?

[Travis_WA]

Haven't actually gotten my car's stomp test to work, and I've tried several different times.

Just went over and tried to start it again, won't fire at all now. Looking in the bentley real quick before calling tow places.

Fuel filter probably wouldn't have a sudden clog this severe after months of smooth running, eh?

Might try and test the fuel pump relay.

Will definitely check the air intakes again, nothing seemed out of place under the hood when I looked, but it was just a few minutes. Also pumped the little accelerator thing under the hood (don't remember what it's called) and that didn't do anything either.

[bubba966]

You should try asking the local CCA people if one of them's got a Peake you can borrow. I know there's lots of people that frequently step up when someone asks to use one. Just aren't recalling anyone close by you at the moment. I'd take a look at it if you were closer.

And you aren't going to see the connector I said to check just by looking under the hood. It's underneath the intake manifold. Only real easy way to see if it's connected or not is to pull the throttle body off and look into the intake manifold through the hole that the throttle body connects to.

That connector is #9 here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD63&mospid=47404&btnr=11_1124&hg=11&fg=40

and in fact you can almost see the hole for the connector in the manifold in that diagram. Though it might not make any sense if you're not already familiar with the intake manifold and how it all looks when it's pulled apart.

[Travis_WA]

Well, I had the car towed to the mechanic Sunday as I couldn't really leave it there longer, and didn't want to pay for two tows if it wasn't something I could fix at home.

Got the car back tuesday. Was told he found a loose electrical connection, bled the fuel system, and that my fuel gauge was optimistic in its reading. Not sure how low my tank was, but I know it had gas in it.

All was fine until today when it failed to start at the store again. Thinking I'd check the electrical connection I took off the access panel in the trunk (I've since learned this is just for the fuel level sender) and basically jiggled the wire, and then the car started, ran fine, and has since started just fine 5 more times. So, I'm pretty much back at the start, although it's now apparent this is something intermittent.

Thinking it might be the fuel filter, not sure when it was last changed as I've only had the car since June, so I'm going to do that in the next couple days. Possible the tank got low and some water got into the system? My mechanic said he bled the fuel system, but I don't know if that would include draining the tank or not...

So I'm fairly lost again, but at least I now have a photo of my car getting towed -_-

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/epiloguetravis/101208_185500.jpg

[Travis_WA]

How far away was the store? M50 is known for flooding out after a short hop. Have you checked the plugs? Just a thought from a country away.

Meaning checking the plugs to see if they're wet? I haven't, didn't think to do it the first time. The car wouldn't fire at all the following day though, so would I be correct in ruling out a flooding issue?

[Ferret]

Well, I had the car towed to the mechanic Sunday as I couldn't really leave it there longer, and didn't want to pay for two tows if it wasn't something I could fix at home.

Got the car back tuesday. Was told he found a loose electrical connection, bled the fuel system, and that my fuel gauge was optimistic in its reading. Not sure how low my tank was, but I know it had gas in it.

All was fine until today when it failed to start at the store again. Thinking I'd check the electrical connection I took off the access panel in the trunk (I've since learned this is just for the fuel level sender) and basically jiggled the wire, and then the car started, ran fine, and has since started just fine 5 more times. So, I'm pretty much back at the start, although it's now apparent this is something intermittent.

Thinking it might be the fuel filter, not sure when it was last changed as I've only had the car since June, so I'm going to do that in the next couple days. Possible the tank got low and some water got into the system? My mechanic said he bled the fuel system, but I don't know if that would include draining the tank or not...

So I'm fairly lost again, but at least I now have a photo of my car getting towed -_-

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t35/epiloguetravis/101208_185500.jpg

The mechanic will have 'bled' the fuel system because when you kicked over the engine and it fired, it's sucked all the fuel out of the lines that was static.

Allegedly - these cars are supposed to self bleed

Take the connector off the fuel tank connection, give it a scrape and a spray of contact cleaner and she'll probably be fine till the day she goes to the great scrapyard in the sky :P

[Travis_WA]

I did clean the connection in the trunk, which didn't look bad. The bentley seemed to indicate the connection is just for the fuel level. Does it power the pump as well? Even though the car started after I jiggled it, I'm not convinced it was the problem. Just got a new fuel filter and going to put that in after work tomorrow.

[Dave M]

I did clean the connection in the trunk, which didn't look bad. The bentley seemed to indicate the connection is just for the fuel level. Does it power the pump as well? Even though the car started after I jiggled it, I'm not convinced it was the problem. Just got a new fuel filter and going to put that in after work tomorrow.

I haven't read the whole thread (shame on me), but can tell you that the power supply travels through the wiring harness you access in the trunk (really, where else would it get power ;) ).

I had a lengthy thread on this, but can't find it. Anyhow, here are some pics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Fuel%20Pump/DSC00514.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Fuel%20Pump/DSC00512.jpg

The power supply is the BR/OR (brown/orange) in the beautifull diagram and the bottom right (corroded) terminal in the second pic.

Dave

[Travis_WA]

Thanks! Seems I overlooked the next page of the bentley. Makes me a feel a bit better about it actually being the wire I jigged causing the issue, although the connection really did look pretty good. Still going to change out the fuel filter this weekend, and test the power usage of the fuel pump as per the bentley's instructions, just to be sure the fuel pump is good.

For the fuel filter: I got new hose clamps in case I need to replace the old ones, and plan on starting the car with the fuel pump fuse pulled to de-pressurize the fuel lines. Anything else I should be aware of?

Bit irked that in my mechanic's thorough testing of the electrical connections it appears he didn't check the one in the trunk....

[Ferret]

For the fuel filter: I got new hose clamps in case I need to replace the old ones, and plan on starting the car with the fuel pump fuse pulled to de-pressurize the fuel lines. Anything else I should be aware of?


If I were you, I'd disconnect the fuel hose at the tank access panel before removing the filter - the filter is at one of the lowest points in the whole fuel system, there's always the slight risk that you'll start syphoning fuel out of the tank :)

Expect quite a lot of fuel to run out of the lines - I'd get a coke bottle or the like to stuff the end of the hose in when you first disconnect it at the fuel filter!

[Travis_WA]

If I were you, I'd disconnect the fuel hose at the tank access panel before removing the filter - the filter is at one of the lowest points in the whole fuel system, there's always the slight risk that you'll start syphoning fuel out of the tank :)

Expect quite a lot of fuel to run out of the lines - I'd get a coke bottle or the like to stuff the end of the hose in when you first disconnect it at the fuel filter!

I take it just clamping the hose would be a bad idea?

[Dave M]

I take it just clamping the hose would be a bad idea?

No, thats fine. You'll always get a few drops, but nothing too messy.
'De-pressurize' the fuel system by removing the fuel pump relay and running the engine till it dies.

Dave

[Travis_WA]

Okay, so I changed the filter out last night. Went well except the super-soaker spray of fuel for a few seconds.

Didn't think to blow through the new filter for comparison but the old one did take some (not a lot) of effort to blow through, and the throttle response seems improved now.

No idea if this could have been the issue... Think i'll probably wait and see if the car continues to start as I'm running out of things to test.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[Travis_WA]

Alright. So I got out the DMM tonight and started testing more stuff, still not satisfied. The connection for the positive in the connector in the trunk seems to go to ground (has .1 resistance to ground). Relay is pulled from the e-box. Bit new to using the DMM. Anyway. I have no idea where to start looking for a short in the wiring harness, it disappears into the chassis there and I assume is one of the cables under the rear seat.

Any ideas?