Racing Dynamics M30 Headers?

[happifella]

Does anyone have a set for the 535 that they want to sell?

TIA
Jeff

[Scott H]

I'm not falling for that again!

[winfred]

NO ****


I'm not falling for that again!

[Scott H]

NO ****

[632 Regal]

I didnt

[Martin in Bellevue]

I'm not falling for that again!

[Scott H]

I was avoiding doing this just not to get caught up in it all, but I guess it was unavoidable all along. Let me get the finishing touches done to the E34 Midwest Meet web page, and I'll come back to post the story

[happifella]

Geeze, not the responses I was thinking I would get. I came back to look at my post to see if anyone had repsonded and I see 6 responses! I am thinking "great there are some for sale." Ha, kinda funny. Can't wait to hear the story. And NO, this is not Jeff Ireland.

Jeff
'91 5351
'90 535i
'97 740i

[Scott H]

I will have the story in a bit but basically I have a set of the early design RD headers for M30B35 (which have never ever been installed on an engine) and have been trying to find places to create ones very similar for other E32/E34 brethren. My first attempt was with Jeff Ireland at Ireland Engineering, but turned out to be a sour deal........which is where the story comes in.

I'm still trying to find a few places that can do this project, but the problem is cost. I am trying to find a place that can make them so that retail will be btwn $500-$600 per set, but this is difficult.

[Tiger]

Rat bastards... greedy morons... Can you imagine how much money they makes on these headers... won't cost them $100 in materials to make it... but will probably cost them $200 labor each... yet... that is still rich.

[Jeff N.]

Low volume kills the deal. How many people want to put headers on a E34 M30? Not many.

[Scott H]

The market has obviously changed and the E34 is between 10 and 16 years old now. It is also no longer the second-most current model, but the third. A lot of people just don't want to dump a lot of cash in to these cars anymore, and you can't blame them. Only a few people continue to do so, and those amounts will only dwindle from here-on.

I wish I had this kind of project on my plate at the time RD stopped making the M30 headers......probably could have had a few dozen people on the line at the time.........now we are lucky to see 10. The other market left are the people who are using the M30B35 as engine swaps in to older BMWs. It still may be worth a shot....we'll see.


Low volume kills the deal. How many people want to put headers on a E34 M30? Not many.

[happifella]

On another related note, I plan to install the Stainless Steel e34 M5 version of the Supersprint exhaust on my 1991 535i. The cats and pipes are rusted out and I have been looking at the Supersprint front exhaust section that replaces the cats. It appears to be pretty rare and may not even be made for the M5 anymore. Has anyone seen it for sale before? I attached a pic of it.

Thanks
Jeff

[Craig]

The market has obviously changed and the E34 is between 10 and 16 years old now. It is also no longer the second-most current model, but the third. A lot of people just don't want to dump a lot of cash in to these cars anymore, and you can't blame them. Only a few people continue to do so, and those amounts will only dwindle from here-on.

I wish I had this kind of project on my plate at the time RD stopped making the M30 headers......probably could have had a few dozen people on the line at the time.........now we are lucky to see 10. The other market left are the people who are using the M30B35 as engine swaps in to older BMWs. It still may be worth a shot....we'll see.

Don't be too sure about that. As the cars age and the price goes down people have more disposable money to spend.

Look at the market for the E28 on the mye28.com board- there is a LOT of money spent on those cars. The big items being exhaust (cat back), suspension parts and wheels. Some have done headers too (I might consider it, there is quite a bit of room under there if it's a bolt in).

[Unregistered]

Don't be too sure about that. As the cars age and the price goes down people have more disposable money to spend.

Look at the market for the E28 on the mye28.com board- there is a LOT of money spent on those cars. The big items being exhaust (cat back), suspension parts and wheels. Some have done headers too (I might consider it, there is quite a bit of room under there if it's a bolt in).

Sorry, I disagree, the E28 is a different car, different market. The E28 always had more of a following amount enthusiasts. Why? Lighter car, easier to work on, more "performance" stuff developed for it. If you drive both, you can feel the difference. Sort of like comparing an E30 to an E36, the "purist" will always choose the E30.

Don't get me wrong, the E34 is a great car. However, it is heavier and designed with more *luxury* in mind. Yes, there will always be people willing to spend $$$$ on things like fancy exhaust, chips (actually a good thing for an E34), spinner wheels and "let's drop em' lower" suspensions, so maybe there are 10+ people out there willing to pay $$$-$$$$ for headers, maybe......Of course, real motorheads like Bruno, will abandon these limos in favor of a 3 series like a nice E30 or E36 (especially the M3). Now THAT is where you're really gonna find people dropping $$$$$$$$$!

[Craig]

Sorry, I disagree, the E28 is a different car, different market. The E28 always had more of a following amount enthusiasts. Why? Lighter car, easier to work on, more "performance" stuff developed for it. If you drive both, you can feel the difference. Sort of like comparing an E30 to an E36, the "purist" will always choose the E30.


E28s are getting pretty old now though- and people are moving on. I've owned 4 E28s, am now moving into E34-land.

So while I would say you make some good points, I wouldn't count the E34 out just yet.

[Porschmn]

I agree with Graig. I was finally able to afford an E34 540/6 and I am trying to by everything I can find for the car. Since the car was cheaper it opened up more possibilities. I think as the car prices fall to levels anyone can afford the tuning market for that type car opens up again. Look at the old Hondas. Kids are buying old 89-95 Hondas and dropping tons of money into them. Just go to your local drag strip any night of the week. The money they spend would send your kids to college for a year. I would love to see more items for E34's. I agree the market is smaller because of the amount of cars available but at the same time I believe ever owner is looking for some sort of tuning upgrade. Just my .2 cents.

[632 Regal]

try www.lemonsheaders.com

they made a pretty set for the Regal at under 1400.00 ceramic coated in and out!

[Scott H]

After some time has passed, I'm not as upset as I was at the time, but it was an interesting experience nonetheless. I didn't proofread this so chill out on the spelling and grammar ;)

So a couple YEARS ago, Stewart E from the board was looking for RD headers, as people do from time to time. Since RD no longer made the headers for the M30, he was thinking of having some made. I happened to stumble across an unused set in Chicago a few weeks earlier, and offered the RD headers up to use as a guide (whatever you want to call it is up to you :p ). Stewart contacted Jeff Ireland to see if he was interested in the project. Jeff agreed to have them made if we could get a minimum amount of people to commit to purchasing them. After polling the board, we got almost a dozen people together for a group purchase, and Stewart left the rest up to Jeff Ireland and I.

[bored yet? I am............]

I contacted Jeff Ireland to arrange for shipping, project expectations, etc. I let him do ANYTHING he wanted with them as long as he didn't destroy them. In return, I was told I could have a set of his adjustable camber plates or possibly a set of KMACs. I was truly disinterested in making out from this project, and just wanted to help my friends find a solution for headers........so Ireland was the only one to be making money on the project.

We had talked via phone, and I shipped them out to him just before Halloween of 2002 AT MY EXPENSE. I packed the three piece (front, rear, and downpipe) in two seperate boxes with adequate padding materials and sent them from a Mailboxes, Etc for roughly $75 (extra insurance). Ireland told me he would get to the project within a few months, and I told him I had no plans for the headers anytime soon, so I did not put any pressure on him to turn them around.

A few months went by with no contact from Ireland, so I decided to call. He was not available, but one of his employees, Jeremy, was. Jeremy was courteous, and told me he would find out from Jeff himself because he was in charge of that project. I did not hear back for another month, so I called again. By this time it was February of 2003, and I was beginning to get deep in to tax season at work, so again I made it clear I was in no hurry, and was merely trying to get a feel for the project so I could report back to my Stewart and my E34 bros.

Another couple of months went by, and tax season was over. I once again called Ireland to get a feel for the progress, and was told there was NONE. At this point it was 6 months since I had sent him the headers, and I began to ask him to get a move on it. I told him that he made us get guys to commit and that he was not following through on his end. He promised he would take it to his header fabricator and get it going by the end of that week. I let a couple more weeks pass to give him some time, and called back once again. Still no progress on the headers.

At this point, I asked him if he felt like the prject was a good idea and he insisted that it was, and that is was a product he would like to have in his catalog. I let the issue rest, asked him to get the project moving, and left it at that. From July of 2003 until Nov of 2003 I called him once/month for an update, and each time he had nothing to report.

Finally, late in 2003 I called up Ireland and asked him to send the headers back to me. I spoke to Jeremy again, who was pleasant, and asked him if he could deal me on a set of KMAC camber plates. I was informed that they couldn't, but they were trying to get rid of the last of their stock. I appealed that considering they had my headers for over a year, did nothing with them, and made no effort whatsoever to contact me with updates, that it would be nice if they cut me a break on the KMACs. Eventually I got the set of camber plates for their cost.

About three weeks passed and I had not received news of any shipment of my headers from Ireland. I called once again, and Jeremy said they had been sitting in the shop waiting to be packed up..............thanks for getting on that and keeping in touch with me guys.........send the **** NOW.

I got the stuff back just before Thanksgiving of 2003 stuffed in one box (all three parts of the header, and the camber plates). The box had been beat up and obvously broke open because the camber plate packaging had burst open, and I was missing one part of one plate. I contacted Ireland regarding the issue, and Jeremy offered to have a part made in place of the missing part, but I decided at this point that I was done with Ireland Engineering.

[I'm super bored now]

A few months passed and it was now early 2004. A friend linked me to Ireland Engineering website and what do you know...........there is a set of M30 HEADERS listed on his products page! How nice is that......were these replicas of my headers which he had for over a year? I decided to call and speak to Jeff Ireland regarding the issue.

I reminded Jeff who I was, and asked him what the deal was with the M30 headers on his website. He told me that the M30 headers were designed based on early M30 short headers they found in a scrap yard, and they had designed different downpipes to fit each BMW chassis that use the M30 engine. Most importantly, he told me they were not the long headers I had left with him for over a year. I found it interesting that he had M30 headers for sale only a few months after dealing with me. He assured me that the project was something he ALWAYS wanted to get done, but never had time to take on. After discussing the issue for a few more minutes, I decided to let it drop, but I realized my issue was not with the headers itself, but how Jeff Ireland conducted himself throughout the entire deal.

I basically told him that he let a lot of people down (people he had made commit to him), and that he did a terrible job of communicating with me throughout the whole thing. His response to me was really appalling (from my POV): "You also said you had no immidate plans to install them on your car. I am too busy to attend to some guy who sends me headers to make, and I am too busy to call you. I responded to your e-mails, what more did you want." I asked him if he thought "no immediate plans" meant <6mos, <1 yr, or <5yrs in his book. I also reminded him that e-mails were ALWAYS initiated by me, and that the phone calls were too. I asked him if this is how thinks he should treat someone who was trying to ENABLE him to add a GREAT product to his portfolio without asking for ANYTHING in return except for a set of his camber plates which retailed for $100 at the time (I can accurately speculate that it cost him no more than $60 to make each set.) I also asked him if our project helped accelerate his M30 header project in general.

I realized I was dealing with someone who was not making any effort to see my side of the situation, and he basically told me to take a big hike. I was trying to see if he would budge one ounce from his point of view and, and he wasn't. I was absolutely stunned by his terrible customer relationship skills in dealing with the situation.

In closing, he offered me a free set of those M30 headers, at which time I had to remind him that I ALREADY HAD A SET OF M30 HEADERS. He suggested I SELL them to a friend. I refused his offer mainly because I think that would have let his conscious off the hook on the matter......something I didn't want to let happen. Like I'm gonna sell a set of those things to my E34 friends while leaving everyone else out of the deal who was along for the ride.

so there's my story........I've haven't written anything this long since college.

[Jeff N.]

That, or I get tired of the gas bills for the M30 :D



E28s are getting pretty old now though- and people are moving on. I've owned 4 E28s, am now moving into E34-land.

So while I would say you make some good points, I wouldn't count the E34 out just yet.

[DrewZ]

it sounds like your experience is typical of the customer-service(?) experience that others have had with Ireland. Quality products when delivered, but God forbid you ask for anything in return. (Sound like the "Shmoopy/Soup Nazi" Seinfeld episode?)

Anyway, I read the whole post. What do I win? Maybe you can fab up some non-standard poster frames for me . . . :)


After some time has passed, I'm not as upset as I was at the time, but it was an interesting experience nonetheless. I didn't proofread this so chill out on the spelling and grammar ;)

So a couple YEARS ago, Stewart E from the board was looking for RD headers, as people do from time to time. Since RD no longer made the headers for the M30, he was thinking of having some made. I happened to stumble across an unused set in Chicago a few weeks earlier, and offered the RD headers up to use as a guide (whatever you want to call it is up to you :p ). Stewart contacted Jeff Ireland to see if he was interested in the project. Jeff agreed to have them made if we could get a minimum amount of people to commit to purchasing them. After polling the board, we got almost a dozen people together for a group purchase, and Stewart left the rest up to Jeff Ireland and I.

[bored yet? I am............]

I contacted Jeff Ireland to arrange for shipping, project expectations, etc. I let him do ANYTHING he wanted with them as long as he didn't destroy them. In return, I was told I could have a set of his adjustable camber plates or possibly a set of KMACs. I was truly disinterested in making out from this project, and just wanted to help my friends find a solution for headers........so Ireland was the only one to be making money on the project.

We had talked via phone, and I shipped them out to him just before Halloween of 2002 AT MY EXPENSE. I packed the three piece (front, rear, and downpipe) in two seperate boxes with adequate padding materials and sent them from a Mailboxes, Etc for roughly $75 (extra insurance). Ireland told me he would get to the project within a few months, and I told him I had no plans for the headers anytime soon, so I did not put any pressure on him to turn them around.

A few months went by with no contact from Ireland, so I decided to call. He was not available, but one of his employees, Jeremy, was. Jeremy was courteous, and told me he would find out from Jeff himself because he was in charge of that project. I did not hear back for another month, so I called again. By this time it was February of 2003, and I was beginning to get deep in to tax season at work, so again I made it clear I was in no hurry, and was merely trying to get a feel for the project so I could report back to my Stewart and my E34 bros.

Another couple of months went by, and tax season was over. I once again called Ireland to get a feel for the progress, and was told there was NONE. At this point it was 6 months since I had sent him the headers, and I began to ask him to get a move on it. I told him that he made us get guys to commit and that he was not following through on his end. He promised he would take it to his header fabricator and get it going by the end of that week. I let a couple more weeks pass to give him some time, and called back once again. Still no progress on the headers.

At this point, I asked him if he felt like the prject was a good idea and he insisted that it was, and that is was a product he would like to have in his catalog. I let the issue rest, asked him to get the project moving, and left it at that. From July of 2003 until Nov of 2003 I called him once/month for an update, and each time he had nothing to report.

Finally, late in 2003 I called up Ireland and asked him to send the headers back to me. I spoke to Jeremy again, who was pleasant, and asked him if he could deal me on a set of KMAC camber plates. I was informed that they couldn't, but they were trying to get rid of the last of their stock. I appealed that considering they had my headers for over a year, did nothing with them, and made no effort whatsoever to contact me with updates, that it would be nice if they cut me a break on the KMACs. Eventually I got the set of camber plates for their cost.

About three weeks passed and I had not received news of any shipment of my headers from Ireland. I called once again, and Jeremy said they had been sitting in the shop waiting to be packed up..............thanks for getting on that and keeping in touch with me guys.........send the **** NOW.

I got the stuff back just before Thanksgiving of 2003 stuffed in one box (all three parts of the header, and the camber plates). The box had been beat up and obvously broke open because the camber plate packaging had burst open, and I was missing one part of one plate. I contacted Ireland regarding the issue, and Jeremy offered to have a part made in place of the missing part, but I decided at this point that I was done with Ireland Engineering.

[I'm super bored now]

A few months passed and it was now early 2004. A friend linked me to Ireland Engineering website and what do you know...........there is a set of M30 HEADERS listed on his products page! How nice is that......were these replicas of my headers which he had for over a year? I decided to call and speak to Jeff Ireland regarding the issue.

I reminded Jeff who I was, and asked him what the deal was with the M30 headers on his website. He told me that the M30 headers were designed based on early M30 short headers they found in a scrap yard, and they had designed different downpipes to fit each BMW chassis that use the M30 engine. Most importantly, he told me they were not the long headers I had left with him for over a year. I found it interesting that he had M30 headers for sale only a few months after dealing with me. He assured me that the project was something he ALWAYS wanted to get done, but never had time to take on. After discussing the issue for a few more minutes, I decided to let it drop, but I realized my issue was not with the headers itself, but how Jeff Ireland conducted himself throughout the entire deal.

I basically told him that he let a lot of people down (people he had made commit to him), and that he did a terrible job of communicating with me throughout the whole thing. His response to me was really appalling (from my POV): "You also said you had no immidate plans to install them on your car. I am too busy to attend to some guy who sends me headers to make, and I am too busy to call you. I responded to your e-mails, what more did you want." I asked him if he thought "no immediate plans" meant <6mos, <1 yr, or <5yrs in his book. I also reminded him that e-mails were ALWAYS initiated by me, and that the phone calls were too. I asked him if this is how thinks he should treat someone who was trying to ENABLE him to add a GREAT product to his portfolio without asking for ANYTHING in return except for a set of his camber plates which retailed for $100 at the time (I can accurately speculate that it cost him no more than $60 to make each set.) I also asked him if our project helped accelerate his M30 header project in general.

I realized I was dealing with someone who was not making any effort to see my side of the situation, and he basically told me to take a big hike. I was trying to see if he would budge one ounce from his point of view and, and he wasn't. I was absolutely stunned by his terrible customer relationship skills in dealing with the situation.

In closing, he offered me a free set of those M30 headers, at which time I had to remind him that I ALREADY HAD A SET OF M30 HEADERS. He suggested I SELL them to a friend. I refused his offer mainly because I think that would have let his conscious off the hook on the matter......something I didn't want to let happen. Like I'm gonna sell a set of those things to my E34 friends while leaving everyone else out of the deal who was along for the ride.

so there's my story........I've haven't written anything this long since college.

[Jeff N.]

.

[Bruno]

I twice bought some parts for some customers in Canada from Ireland engineering, I have a dealer account with them and never had any problem so far.

I had some problems with other companies like MEYLE.... heehe.

Anyhow, I try to do things locally with what I have like the remote filter kits (1 more in stock then I won't make more), or the reset tools....

I am now working on enlarged throttle bodies.

[Scott H]

we will continue our search.

Thanks for the confirmation Drew and Jeff........at the time, I thought I was picking a fight with someone who was already rather established in the community for invalid reasons.....wasn't sure if I had mis-stepped somewhere along that road..........glad to know I wasn't too far off...LOL

That poster still looks good in that fram Drew, you try ordering from the site I e-mailed you? Curious if you do, and what your results are.

[zmuff]

I recently bought a set of plug wires from Ireland Engineering and was very pleased with the quality and the service. But my real questions are: Are the short exhaust headers they are selling not as efficient as the longer style? Are they worthy of the $375.00 asking price or just expensive eye candy?

[Scott H]

$375 is not much for a set of headers though.......as most long/equal length headers are >$1,000 for any car. I'm sure you would see some additional improvement if these headers were installed with complementary modifications like MAF, cam, P&P, and bored t-body.


I recently bought a set of plug wires from Ireland Engineering and was very pleased with the quality and the service. But my real questions are: Are the short exhaust headers they are selling not as efficient as the longer style? Are they worthy of the $375.00 asking price or just expensive eye candy?

[Jeff N.]

$375 is not much for a set of headers though.......as most long/equal length headers are >$1,000 for any car. I'm sure you would see some additional improvement if these headers were installed with complementary modifications like MAF, cam, P&P, and bored t-body.

[Craig]

$375 is not much for a set of headers though.......as most long/equal length headers are >$1,000 for any car.

Well, any import at least. As a former Mustang driver I've seen plenty of $250 longtube headers... :D

Anyone ever dyno headers and see if they even do anything?

[632 Regal]

I spent 3500 bux on a trans for the racecar that I never saw from a very reputible racer... so i get fukt again, contacted him and he wants me to hook him up with customers to buy aflac to be even with me. all i need now is an extra 12k to finish the widow maker. can slam it together for 8k but who in their right mind would drive it without a parachure or wheelie bars? Not me, I made enough X wives so far.
:D

[Scott H]

By the time I get mine installed, the engine will be too different to tell solely what the headers have done, so Ed should dyno his :)


Anyone ever dyno headers and see if they even do anything?