Valve lifters noisy on startup

[Ferret]

Gents,

It appears my valve lifters are magically de-priming with time since I oil changed her last month.

If I leave her overnight and startup from cold in a morning, I've got a single or a pair of lifters ticking at startup. The ticking stops at the same point on the temperature guage every day, though sometimes will cut out immediately after startup etc.

If I leave her for a few days in freezing conditions then start her up, most of the right bank's lifters clatter quite noisily, then quiet one by one in a front to back order...

She was oil changed with Mobil S or the like 10W-40 and almost immediately started getting noisy.

The PO had the oil pump bolts done (going on 2 years ago) etc, so I'm wondering if this is oil or pump related.

Quite tempted to drop some 15w40 in and see what happens.

Thoughts?

[632 Regal]

I am thinking that your oil is too thick, not allowing the lifters to re-prime. Especially in cold weather. I am running 0w-30 and only hear the lifters when it gets very cold, I would imagine thicker oil would only take longer for them to prime especially of not a synthetic oil.

[whiskychaser]

My handbook says 1040 is good for -20 to +30 deg C and 1540 is good for -10 to +40 deg C. Unfortunately it doesnt list the 540. I use 1040 and have one noisy lifter. It stops tapping as soon as the idle settles after turning the key. If it didnt I'd certainly be giving the 1540 a go - dont think we've got down to -10 yet have we?:(

[Jehu]

I heard this on mine (at least I hope that's all it is and not a rod bearing) even with 5w30 royal purple synth. Began hearing it only when the temps were at or near freezing overnight and I don't think I have heared it consistantly every morning but admittedly i don't always listen for it. How harmful can this kind of thing be?

[Washburn]

Yeah, 15w40 would make it worse. (15 is thicker than 10) I run 5w30 all year myself, and haven't had any problems. When I ran synth, I would put 0 weight Mobil One in...maybe that would quite them down?

[Ross]

I heard this on mine (at least I hope that's all it is and not a rod bearing) even with 5w30 royal purple synth. Began hearing it only when the temps were at or near freezing overnight and I don't think I have heared it consistantly every morning but admittedly i don't always listen for it. How harmful can this kind of thing be?
If it's a rod bearing it wont go away.

[Jehu]

If it's a rod bearing it wont go away.


Yah I thought it sounded too light and near the upper engine to be that but another bimmer indy shop guy I found last nigth ,in conversation happened to mention when we were discussing my options for my oil leak in response to my question about what might fail first in the engine. he said Rod bearings,like ifyou hear a tapping when its cold.... and this came to mind but I figured itd unburden myself of the thought so thanks for the info.. should I perhaps try 0w30 instead of the 5weight next change now we're getting into the real Arctic colds here in New Hampshire?

[632 Regal]

Definetly try the lighter oil, synthetic right? Synthetic will protect a chevy V8 at 400 degrees and piston or bearing wear for 50 miles.... I know. It was 5w-30 and wow purple exhaust manifolds are rare.


Yah I thought it sounded too light and near the upper engine to be that but another bimmer indy shop guy I found last nigth ,in conversation happened to mention when we were discussing my options for my oil leak in response to my question about what might fail first in the engine. he said Rod bearings,like ifyou hear a tapping when its cold.... and this came to mind but I figured itd unburden myself of the thought so thanks for the info.. should I perhaps try 0w30 instead of the 5weight next change now we're getting into the real Arctic colds here in New Hampshire?

[Ferret]

Yah I thought it sounded too light and near the upper engine to be that but another bimmer indy shop guy I found last nigth ,in conversation happened to mention when we were discussing my options for my oil leak in response to my question about what might fail first in the engine. he said Rod bearings,like ifyou hear a tapping when its cold.... and this came to mind but I figured itd unburden myself of the thought so thanks for the info.. should I perhaps try 0w30 instead of the 5weight next change now we're getting into the real Arctic colds here in New Hampshire?

I was reading something the other day about these oils... 0w and 5w are both basically 5w oils (you cant get a 0w oil as the number refers to the amount of seconds a set amount of oil takes to flow through a restricted nozzle) 0w is a special case oil that has a different 'pouring point' - aka it turns to jelly at a MUCH lower temperature - like -40C or the like...

5w should protect down to something quite reasonable still? I just see a lot of 0w stuff marketed at boy racers when it's actually a cold weather oil?

[Rick L]

Yep... That is the flow weight when cold. In warm weather climate, having 10w-XX or 0w-xx shouldn't make any difference.


I was reading something the other day about these oils... 0w and 5w are both basically 5w oils (you cant get a 0w oil as the number refers to the amount of seconds a set amount of oil takes to flow through a restricted nozzle) 0w is a special case oil that has a different 'pouring point' - aka it turns to jelly at a MUCH lower temperature - like -40C or the like...

5w should protect down to something quite reasonable still? I just see a lot of 0w stuff marketed at boy racers when it's actually a cold weather oil?

[Tiger]

Yes, 5W is good enough as it is the most common type of oil... 0W is harder to find and as far as the 30 and 40, I'd choose the 30 over 40.

[Grantus]

Not wanting to argue, but present a different point of view for consideration.
I wonder whether heading toward the other end of the viscosity spectrum would help.

I am thinking of a 5W or a 10W, by virtue of their low viscosity when cold, draining away from the lifters and other parts when the car is stationary and cooling down.

The sub zero temperatures referred to probably mean that every piece of metal in the engine has shrunk, causing wider clearances and resultant noise.

I didnt see whether the car has high miles or not, of which the first symptom of engine wear is often noisy lifters.

On engines with moderate wear I have often cured noisy lifters by using an oil additive such as Morey's or Lucas products.

I think the problem is caused by the oil draining nearly completely away.

A sump heater and a more mid range oil would probably be a worthwhile option for consideration in my opinion.

Before you buy some lighter oil to change the lot, consider spending less and putting a litre of Morey's in. It is really good at taking up the slack.

[ryan roopnarine]

in the ewe-kay, you all have a product called wynns tappet cleaner. i'd try that at the end of your oil life, no matter what oil choice you make. it couldn't possibly hurt.

[632 Regal]

appreciate the input, addatives are always a last resort. Ig the clearances are worn then thin oil will cause knock but if the entire engine is cold than the clearances would be the same as when warm unless there is aluminum piston rods... hardly the case. A rod knock in cold is a higher pitched sound similar to an empty tappet until the lifter pumps up. This is where the variences of oppinion can abound. In either situation thinner oil in the cold will silence the sound faster than thicker oil. Engine oil heater a BIG plus in either situation. Here it's cold and the car starts and runs great until I pull out of the garage and the intake sees the ambiant outside temperature. Engine acts good but intake sees sub temps and instantly idles up to compensate for an already somewhat warm engine.

[attack eagle]

Not wanting to argue, but present a different point of view for consideration.
I wonder whether heading toward the other end of the viscosity spectrum would help.

I think the problem is caused by the oil draining nearly completely away.

A sump heater and a more mid range oil would probably be a worthwhile option for consideration in my opinion.



correct. my m50 has immediate lifter tick on 10w40 dino, and zip on 20w50.
synths are a bit different and you can go a lot lower before the hydraulic lifters become an issue.
I'd try 15w40 before i'd go LOWER weight.