****!! - Did you hear what just happened?!!

[pundit]

NAH!! - Get ****ed!!... You don't want to know! ;)

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40129

[bad_manners_god]

Notice how you never here about BMW, Audi, VW, Mercedes-Benz or any of the Japenese car makers in debt....espically 60 billion.

I don't think they can sell 2,400,000 Malibu hybrids at 25,000 in +/-90 days

[E3420]

Is that for real? I figured Obama was going to push for it, oh well, not like we need Mexican sports cars any more.

[attack eagle]

I'm fine with it. e3420 both Obama and Bush are pushing for it... their opinion only matters if they are going to veto it. The unions didn;t want to take paycuts to keep their existing jobs and help the companies become profitable.

We all should have seen this coming last year, early spring when the announcement was made that Gm owed more in union pensions/healthcare than the company was worth... i say the union should just take the company as payment in full and become worker owned... either they make it as self employed contractors or it fails. done.

[repenttokyo]

Toyota sales are down 34 percent and Lexus 40, so don;t think the market is only ****ed for domestic automakers.

[632 Regal]

UAW is the failure for the companies. In bankruptcy they can eliminate the union, the benefits, the retirement packages etc, let the old folks fend for them selves. They should be able to anyways for being overpaid to screw nuts on bolts.

But.. this will cause a major change and it will not be good short term. Short term they will not be able to get parts, make payments to suppliers, pay bills etc etc until they officially enter bankruptcy which will most likely take months, which at that point in time they are gone financially... double edge sward, GM wanted the funding so they could FILE for it, not a free for all like the bankers.

Ahh well, the rep and bankers win again... Oh well another day another dollar.

[BMWCCA1]

Regarding poor sales from everyone, not just the Used-to-be-Big-Three, I wrote this earlier in the month to another automotive list:


Figures don't lie.

3-Series sales are down 43% for the month of November; 20% for the year

The only not-new model up for the month is the old 7-Series, but a 15% increase means only about 150 more cars. And the Seven is still down 8% for the year.

BMW as a Brand is down 36% for the month and 12% for the year.
BMW cars are down 35% for the month and 13% for the year.

The cars BMW wants you to think are hot?
1-Series (all models): 644 sold for the month. That's got to be something like less than two per dealer
X6? 398 for the month.
X3? 748
6-Series? 338

Cars we know aren't hot?
Z4: 334 sold for the month

So, BMW kills the Z4, moves production to Europe, and replaces it in Spartanburg with a new truck that sells 60 more units a month?

Biggest selling models?
3-Series (all models): 6,645 in November

Next best?
5-Series (all models): 2,927

Best spin on the figures?
If you include MINI in what now becomes the BMW Group (where are the Rolls Royce figures?), then sales are only down by 27% for the month and 7% for the year.

But take MINI by itself as a brand and their sales are up 43% for November, and 31% for the year.
MINI Cooper and Cooper S coupes (not convertibles or Clubmen) are the second-best-selling "BMW" model (behind only the 3-Series) at 3,172 MINI coupes. In fact, the Cooper and Cooper S coupes outsold ALL BMW SAVs combined for the month of November. And for the YTD, too!!!


Total BMW car and SAV sales for the month averages out to less than forty vehicles per huge BMW Center location.
Total MINI sales works out to over 50 units per tiny box store.It doesn't really look good anywhere.

[632 Regal]

egads

Regarding poor sales from everyone, not just the Used-to-be-Big-Three, I wrote this earlier in the month to another automotive list:

It doesn't really look good anywhere.

[mikell]

It ain't over 'til it's over. . . the Big 3 will be saved. . . bend over, it won't hurt a bit.

BTW, why not offer cars without all the crap that just adds expense and weight? (and all the electronic doodads that have nothing to do with transportation and break expensively) Is it even possible to get a "stripper" anymore?

[repenttokyo]

It ain't over 'til it's over. . . the Big 3 will be saved. . . bend over, it won't hurt a bit.

BTW, why not offer cars without all the crap that just adds expense and weight? (and all the electronic doodads that have nothing to do with transportation and break expensively) Is it even possible to get a "stripper" anymore?

it's very possible to get a stripper - many cars can be ordered with no equipment at all. but it's not doodads that add the weight, it's safety equipment and the fact that all vehicles have ballooned in size over the past 20 years. look at a new 3 series - it's as big as our 5's and weighs close to the same.

[Rick L]

I sure all auto sales are down do to economy. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread but I have noticed many BMW owners purchasing Audi. Even some of my BMW enthusiast friends have purchased Audi over BMW. I myself wouldn't purchase E60, E90, etc. I too might go with new Audi over BMW. They seemed to be more appealing to me as well. And for Mini sales being up, I think that has a lot to do with high gas prices during summer and fall.



Figures don't lie.

3-Series sales are down 43% for the month of November; 20% for the year

The only not-new model up for the month is the old 7-Series, but a 15% increase means only about 150 more cars. And the Seven is still down 8% for the year.

BMW as a Brand is down 36% for the month and 12% for the year.
BMW cars are down 35% for the month and 13% for the year.

The cars BMW wants you to think are hot?
1-Series (all models): 644 sold for the month. That's got to be something like less than two per dealer
X6? 398 for the month.
X3? 748
6-Series? 338

Cars we know aren't hot?
Z4: 334 sold for the month

So, BMW kills the Z4, moves production to Europe, and replaces it in Spartanburg with a new truck that sells 60 more units a month?

Biggest selling models?
3-Series (all models): 6,645 in November

Next best?
5-Series (all models): 2,927

Best spin on the figures?
If you include MINI in what now becomes the BMW Group (where are the Rolls Royce figures?), then sales are only down by 27% for the month and 7% for the year.

But take MINI by itself as a brand and their sales are up 43% for November, and 31% for the year.
MINI Cooper and Cooper S coupes (not convertibles or Clubmen) are the second-best-selling "BMW" model (behind only the 3-Series) at 3,172 MINI coupes. In fact, the Cooper and Cooper S coupes outsold ALL BMW SAVs combined for the month of November. And for the YTD, too!!!


Total BMW car and SAV sales for the month averages out to less than forty vehicles per huge BMW Center location.
Total MINI sales works out to over 50 units per tiny box store.

[attack eagle]

it's very possible to get a stripper - many cars can be ordered with no equipment at all. but it's not doodads that add the weight, it's safety equipment and the fact that all vehicles have ballooned in size over the past 20 years. look at a new 3 series - it's as big as our 5's and weighs close to the same.

exactly... a compact car now is the the same size and weight as a midsized car in the early 80s.

[Jehu]

Just my two cents... I bought a Brand New Chevy G2500 Cargo Van in 1997 financed to $26,000 over 5 yrs. By the time I sold it for $500.00 with 335,000 miles on it in 2003. I paid $23,000.00 early pay off. BUT It was on it SIXTH Transmission, Second Engine, second A/C system and ECU.The thing was always breaking down. I got one Tranny under warranty, and the engine ( for which I was required to show a stack of Oil Change receipts). One of the Tyranny's for which I paid $2k had to be replaced within days due tot he failure of the dealership shop to adequately clean the shrapnel from the last one) and then I had two more full rebuilds. So One original blew at 40,000 miles, one under the original warranty, bought a third ,replaced within two days so that's four then two more rebuilds.. The engine blew up at 98,000. I had the extended warranty and they tried very hard to deny me the new engine but when I handed them a stack of receipts for oil changes they shut up and did it.
I will N E V E R buy an American made car as long as I live again!