1995 BMW Handling Problems-what to do?

[Russell]

1995 BMW Handling Problems
168,000 is approximate mileage. I am at a loss on what to replace/repair next. I just do not want to throw expensive parts at it. TIA

Following are my issues and what i have done to it.


Notes

Continuous Correction needed to keep in lane..
Drifts to the right a lot on straight roads while holding steering wheel straight.
Continuous Correction needed in turns-not so much after car “sets up”.
Feels a bit twitchy at higher speeds, especially with wind
Tire pressure does not seem to make much difference
Rear tires seems to thump/move a lot on bumpy roads
Often looks as if driver’s side rear of car sags a little
Tie rods and center link have not been replaced
Rear struts and sub-frame mounts have not been replaced
Could “rear steering” cause problems? Understand that sub frame mounts can cause this issue


Service/parts already replaced


Front Suspension/Steering

Tightened steering column nut @ 82,578 mil
Front sway bar links @ 92,084 miles
Adjusted steering box @ 95, 673 miles
Front struts replaced with Boge Automatics @105,598 miles
Upper control arms @ 123,931 miles
Idler arm with Lemforder part @ 136,267 miles
Sway bar bushings @159,040 miles
Front-end alignment by S&S Tire (Richmond Road) with Hunter 4-wheel alignment system. @ 164,362 miles



Rear Suspension

Rear dogbones/pitman arms @ 100,576 miles
Fill rear sub frame mounts with soft urethane (3M Windo-weld) @ 134,231 miles
Rear sway bar links @144,299 miles
Rear sway bar bushings @ 159,040 miles

[Jr ///M5]

Did you torque the upper control arms in the loaded position when you installed them?

[Russell]

Did you torque the upper control arms in the loaded position when you installed them?
It was my understanding they were. They were done by an independent BMW shop of 20 years experience.

[632 Regal]

RECHECK tightened steering column nut @ 82,578 mil
Front sway bar links @ 92,084 miles
RECHECK Adjusted steering box @ 95, 673 miles
Front struts replaced with Boge Automatics @105,598 miles
Upper control arms @ 123,931 miles
Idler arm with Lemforder part @ 136,267 miles
Sway bar bushings @159,040 miles
Front-end alignment by S&S Tire (Richmond Road) with Hunter 4-wheel alignment system. @ 164,362 miles



Rear Suspension

REPLACE Rear dogbones/pitman arms @ 100,576 miles
CHECK Fill rear sub frame mounts with soft urethane (3M Windo-weld) @ 134,231 miles
Rear sway bar links @144,299 miles
Rear sway bar bushings @ 159,040 miles

[/quote]

[Jeff N.]

Curious. I'd try a finding a good alignment shop and pay them for a workup.

[whiskychaser]

Could “rear steering” cause problems? Understand that sub frame mounts can cause this issue
This would be top of my list. Had the same problem with a light gust of wind, having to correct in bends etc. You would point the car and then it would decide where it wanted to go. Diagnosed it simply by rocking the car in gear-the front of the subframe went up and down!

[Russell]

Could “rear steering” cause problems? Understand that sub frame mounts can cause this issue
This would be top of my list. Had the same problem with a light gust of wind, having to correct in bends etc. You would point the car and then it would decide where it wanted to go. Diagnosed it simply by rocking the car in gear-the front of the subframe went up and down!
Could you explain rocking the car in gear? Mine is an auto. Thanks

[Russell]

Curious. I'd try a finding a good alignment shop and pay them for a workup.

Here are the specs after my latest alignment. I sat in the car with full tank of gas while he did the alignment. Tech did not indicate any problems with front end wear.

[Russell]

Thanks, Rear dogbones do not look worn?? Even so, you are saying they wear out fairly quickly. Interesting

[whiskychaser]

Could you explain rocking the car in gear? Mine is an auto. Thanks

Sorry-mine is an auto too. Put it in park with the handbrake off. You will still be able to move it backwards and forwards a bit. (I turned a rear wheel to do it. ) When you hit the 'stop' as the travel in the transmission is taken up, look for any movement in the subframe.

[Jeff N.]

I'm not an alignment guru but doesn't something look a bit odd?

- right front camber, caster and left rear camber, toe are off compaired to the other cross?

You said the car pulls right. And the right cross is off.

I'd say something's bent or something's loose.

Here's an idea - you say the rear sags and you have a thumping in the rear. Have you checked the upper rear shock mounts? If one of those is failing/failed, it could cause both the sag and the thumping you are hearing.

[Russell]

I'm not an alignment guru but doesn't something look a bit odd?

- right front camber, caster and left rear camber, toe are off compaired to the other cross?

You said the car pulls right. And the right cross is off.

I'd say something's bent or something's loose.

Here's an idea - you say the rear sags and you have a thumping in the rear. Have you checked the upper rear shock mounts? If one of those is failing/failed, it could cause both the sag and the thumping you are
hearing.

Thanks, I will check out the rear shock mounts.

[paanta]

If it's not mounts...

I didn't see if you'd changed them yet, but I'd take a look at the tires themselves. A tread separation could cause most of what you're talking about. I had a snow tire go bad once and the car would pull to one side and felt really squirrely at speed. Didn't realize what the problem was until I put the summer tires on and it cleared right up.

You could swap tires left to right and see if it changes the situation (obviously not in the rain if they're unidirectional...)

I'd also use a tape measure to check the wheel center->fender ride height measurement all the way around and make sure it's within spec.

[Russell]

If it's not mounts...

I didn't see if you'd changed them yet, but I'd take a look at the tires themselves. A tread separation could cause most of what you're talking about. I had a snow tire go bad once and the car would pull to one side and felt really squirrely at speed. Didn't realize what the problem was until I put the summer tires on and it cleared right up.

You could swap tires left to right and see if it changes the situation (obviously not in the rain if they're unidirectional...)

I'd also use a tape measure to check the wheel center->fender ride height measurement all the way around and make sure it's within spec.

Good thought re tires. However, I had the same problems with my winter/snow tires as I do with my current Michelin Exalto A/S tires. Same propblem with previous tires. I really need to check ride height carefully. Perhapsa s someone said, I have a busted spring pad.

[genphreak]

Have I missed it or have the rear strut mounts never been replaced... duh!

If they have not, pull the rear seat, pillar covers, rear deck and the big rubber mount covers to inspect for deterioriation.

These are a very weak point and cause erratic wandering. Are the sway bars mounted solidly/not broken off the frame? If none of these RECHECK the front thrust arm bushings, tho that requires re-aliging the front... :) The little splits are at least easy to see once you flop them down from the mounts and wangle them with a screwdriver.

[Russell]

Have I missed it or have the rear strut mounts never been replaced... duh!

If they have not, pull the rear seat, pillar covers, rear deck and the big rubber mount covers to inspect for deterioriation.

These are a very weak point and cause erratic wandering. Are the sway bars mounted solidly/not broken off the frame? If none of these RECHECK the front thrust arm bushings, tho that requires re-aliging the front... :) The little splits are at least easy to see once you flop them down from the mounts and wangle them with a screwdriver.

Great point! I think I am going ahead and replace the rear stuts and related parts as they have never been replaced.

I will have it done by my indy as I am just not physically up to it anymore. Plus being generally lazy with more honey-do jobs than I really want:)

Thanks again,

[genphreak]

Great point! I think I am going ahead and replace the rear stuts and related parts as they have never been replaced.

I will have it done by my indy as I am just not physically up to it anymore. Plus being generally lazy with more honey-do jobs than I really want:)

Thanks again,

Pull the interior parts yourself, it is easy and the indy will probably damage them if you don't. Beware; you need to do the rear pillar covers carefully as they seat in position on tabs... I think these require you to simply pull the rear door rubbers clear, and (with clean hands) pull the covers forward.

The indy will just rip out the shelf and mark those pillar covers in the process. It takes a 10mm socket on an ratchet with a extenstion bar to remove the rear seat. First, get in and pull the headrests up and out. Then pull the lower seat cushion up by hand and remove from the car. Then undo the plastic nuts (3?) behind the arm rest, then 2 at the bottom corners near the seatbelt sockets. Then pull the rear upper cushion free. Then pull the pillar covers, then the shelf, which just has standard plastic fasteners holding it down.

Plus, ur indy will love you for doing the bit they don't like :)

[Russell]

Pull the interior parts yourself, it is easy and the indy will probably damage them if you don't. Beware; you need to do the rear pillar covers carefully as they seat in position on tabs... I think these require you to simply pull the rear door rubbers clear, and (with clean hands) pull the covers forward.

The indy will just rip out the shelf and mark those pillar covers in the process. It takes a 10mm socket on an ratchet with a extenstion bar to remove the rear seat. First, get in and pull the headrests up and out. Then pull the lower seat cushion up by hand and remove from the car. Then undo the plastic nuts (3?) behind the arm rest, then 2 at the bottom corners near the seatbelt sockets. Then pull the rear upper cushion free. Then pull the pillar covers, then the shelf, which just has standard plastic fasteners holding it down.Plus, ur indy will love you for doing the bit they don't like :)
Pulling the parts is no problem. I have had them all out to redye the package shelf and check out the antenna amp and filter.

[libimmerman]

Just want to add a couple of things, I do alignments on a regular basis. The results of your alignment are not the cause of your problem. you didn`t mention what type of tire or size. A lower profile tire or one that's worn close to it`s useful life will typically follow road crown and cause some wandering left or right as the road changes. Shocks and struts will effect ride quality, Bounce or bumping up and down. I feel that its more likely that some one is missing loose bushings in the front end, not necessarily broken but worn with excessive play. just my 2 cents.

[Russell]

225x60x15 tires (stock wheels) with Michelin Exalto A/S tires with 12,000 miles. Same problems last winter with my winter tires. I also think front end components are "weak" However, no one will state it as a fact. I am considering replacing center drag link and both tie rods. That said, I just do not want to thow parts at it.

[libimmerman]

well your tire size does not to appear to be the source of the problem, again more common with 40 series tires and lower, but I would look more at the lower control arm bushings, have done many of those or idler arms. Just some more thoughts

[Russell]

So many ideas. I am so confused??? :) Still looks like i need to toss a few parts at it.