changed the transmission fluid in the 540.

[dt8068]

I posted this in the bimmerforums e34 section also...


A month ago my transmission started flashing TRANS PROGRAM at me every now and then, and I would just turn off the car, start it again and be good to go. Recently it had gotten worse, and started making a whining noise before it warmed up, especially at the shift points and the trans program would come on after a few miles of driving. Then it got to the point where it would bang into reverse and drive.

I was sick of only one gear, so I decided to change the fluid and filter yesterday with Valvoline Max Life (which claims to be La2634 compatible), and a Filtran filter. It was such a pain in the ass because I didn't have access to lift (jacked it up on 4 jackstands), and the damn hand pump that I used decided to break halfway through filling... After running to advance auto to get a new pump, I was able to pump back in about 8 quarts of fluid after draining the trans. The old fluid was really dark and the old filter was dated February 1993 and oddly enough, it wasn't even a Filtran filter and it was slightly collapsed. I couldn't believe the fluid was still void of any sludge or particles after 212,000 miles, and it was damn clean inside the transmission. To fill the trans I pumped in fluid until it gushed out, then started the car, turned on the lights and a/c, let it warm up a bit, then pumped in more fluid (it took A LOT more) until it gushed out again. Then I started running it through P/N/R/D and pumped in even more fluid till it gushed out then plugged it back up. WHAT A FRICKIN MESS this was. I was absolutely covered in trans fluid after finishing the whole job; I want to know why the hell anyone would think its an awesome idea to put the fricking FILL plug at the lowest point on the transmission. GREAT IDEA. Also, why on earth use a 17mm hex? Seriously, what is the advantage to that besides making it hard for the DIY'er so that we would be forced to have it serviced at a shop? Why not use a conventional 17mm bolt plug?

Well luckily the fluid/filter change stopped the whining and the trans program is now gone :). And to my amazement the transmission now shifts very smoothly; the only shift you slightly feel is 3rd to 4th, and it goes from reverse to drive very smoothly. Hopefully the trans doesn't decide to self destruct in a few hundred miles because of the fact I didn't use the shell fluid. I will report back in a few thousand miles to let you guys know how its running...

[whiskychaser]

I started running it through P/N/R/D and pumped in even more fluid till it gushed out then plugged it back up. WHAT A FRICKIN MESS this was. I was absolutely covered in trans fluid after finishing the whole job; I want to know why the hell anyone would think its an awesome idea to put the fricking FILL plug at the lowest point on the transmission. GREAT IDEA. Also, why on earth use a 17mm hex? Seriously, what is the advantage to that besides making it hard for the DIY'er so that we would be forced to have it serviced at a shop? Why not use a conventional 17mm bolt plug?
...
Yes its messy. Yes putting a fill plug at the bottom of the sump is stupid. Yes 17mm is a daft size. Yes the whole filling procedure is a PITA. I think all members with autos should design a new sump and dipstick combo and get somebody to make them. How hard can it be? Worth it to avoid all this nonesense?

[russiankid]

I don't think thing it would be hard to weld on a dip stick. However, getting the proper length of the dipstick itself would need to be dead on accurate so you get an accurate reading.

[h2oyo]

Yes its messy. Yes putting a fill plug at the bottom of the sump is stupid. Yes 17mm is a daft size. Yes the whole filling procedure is a PITA. I think all members with autos should design a new sump and dipstick combo and get somebody to make them. How hard can it be? Worth it to avoid all this nonesense?

My answer to the auto issues on my 95 540i was a 5 speed:). Now to find a 6 speed that I can afford :D

[charlie]

I have done this on mine and it is a PITA. the only reason I can think is these krauts don't want anyone fiddling with the transmission and discourage all but the hardcore DIY'ers from doing their own tranny service

[dt8068]

UPDATE:

Bad news bears... the TRANS PROGRAM started coming back. Here's the circumstances: The transmission still shifts extremely smooth while driving and while going from Reverse to Drive and vice versa; and the whining that it did before I changed the fluid is still non-existent. The Trans Program message comes up after about 20 minutes of driving, and until then the car shifts perfectly. I think limp mode is engaging once the trans fully warms up; when cold it will not go into limp mode. Once the Trans Program comes on the shift from drive to reverse, and reverse to drive is pretty rough, but this is only after its in limp mode (the shift between D and R will be perfectly smooth right up until TRANS PROGRAM appears, then it all goes to hell). In limp mode if i go from drive-neutral-drive or reverse-neutral-reverse, the shift is perfectly smooth. It is only rough when switching back and forth from R and D. what does this mean?

Since the transmission works flawlessly until the instant it goes into limp mode, it makes me believe there is no mechanical issue and something else might be going on. I don't believe its a valve body problem either because it doesn't have that held back hesitation feeling when accelerating from a stop, which is typical of the "reverse and drive at the same time" thing that usually occurs when these 5hp30s die. The car still accelerates hard right off the line.


So, what could the problem be? I'm stuck at this point and I can't think of what to try. When the trans program comes on I can turn off the car for like 30 seconds then restart and the message will be gone. Is there anyway to read the transmission codes, kinda like the stomp test?

[whiskychaser]

UPDATE:
So, what could the problem be? I'm stuck at this point and I can't think of what to try. When the trans program comes on I can turn off the car for like 30 seconds then restart and the message will be gone. Is there anyway to read the transmission codes, kinda like the stomp test?
Getting the codes read is definitely the best place to start. The tranny has its own ECU where it stores them and you will need a code reader like Carsoft or get some garage to do it for you. This will give you an idea of what the codes are: http://www.e38.org/e32/bmw%20code%20defaut.pdf

[Tiger]

I think you need to have your valve body rebuilt... early trans like ours does have electrical problem that is solved by chanigng out the wire harness attached to the valve body selenoids.

I think one or more of your selenoid is failng therefore starving your transmission of fluid. It is much easier to rebuild the whole valve body and just put it back in. I done this like 8 years ago... no problem to date.

[whiskychaser]

You can check the resistances on your tranny with a DMM at the tranny ECU end:
Output speed sensor: 325 ohms
Input speed sensor: 325 ohms
Temp sensor:
820 ohms at 0 deg C, 962 ohms at 20 deg C, 1118 ohms at 40 deg C, 1289 ohms at 60 deg C
EDS (Pressure regs x 5) No.1= 5.9 ohms Nos 2-5= 6.4 ohms
MV (Magnetic valves x 3) 28 ohms

I've had an input sensor go out with the symptoms you describe. If the code check comes up with 'Turbocharger speed sensor' (which it may if you go to BMW), it really means turbine sensor which is the input one:)

[dt8068]

You can check the resistances on your tranny with a DMM at the tranny ECU end:
Output speed sensor: 325 ohms
Input speed sensor: 325 ohms
Temp sensor:
820 ohms at 0 deg C, 962 ohms at 20 deg C, 1118 ohms at 40 deg C, 1289 ohms at 60 deg C
EDS (Pressure regs x 5) No.1= 5.9 ohms Nos 2-5= 6.4 ohms
MV (Magnetic valves x 3) 28 ohms

I've had an input sensor go out with the symptoms you describe. If the code check comes up with 'Turbocharger speed sensor' (which it may if you go to BMW), it really means turbine sensor which is the input one:)



Awesome info! Is there a diagram of the trans ECU pin-out so I know which pins each of these sensors/valves are at the ECU harness? Also did you take these readings with the ECU out and the car off (obviously after the trans was at the appropriate temperature)?

[Tiger]

I think it was the speed sensor that was also replaced.. on thing Kirt really want to change out.

[whiskychaser]

Awesome info! Is there a diagram of the trans ECU pin-out so I know which pins each of these sensors/valves are at the ECU harness? Also did you take these readings with the ECU out and the car off (obviously after the trans was at the appropriate temperature)?
The info is from a file I had saved. Couldnt find the link this morning as I was in a rush but I found it here:
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/BMW%20Transmission%20Specifications.pdf
The pinout as such isnt in Bentleys but the pin numbers are in the wiring diagrams. (Cross reference the pin numbers it gives for the speed sensors with those in the fault code file-in my case Bentleys was wrong on one of them.) The transmission ECU has the pin numbers stamped on its socket. Well, there are 3 rows of pins and it has the numbers at either end of each row - visible but very small. Remember you need to 'mirror' them when it comes to connecting to the corresponding 'holes' in the cable socket! :D
HTH

[Mr._Graybeard]

Awesome info! Is there a diagram of the trans ECU pin-out so I know which pins each of these sensors/valves are at the ECU harness? Also did you take these readings with the ECU out and the car off (obviously after the trans was at the appropriate temperature)?

This may help, check section 2460.7.

http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/e34_94.pdf

[whiskychaser]

This may help, check section 2460.7.

http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/e34_94.pdf

That looks pretty good until you look at it closely - it shows pin 14 and pin 16as being for both the input and output sensors (depending on polarity) for both the 5HP18 and 5HP30. Its Friday so I will be frank and say thats a load of bollocks. IMHO it should read something like 'put your meter across pins 16and 44, and 14 and 42 to get the resistance values of the input/output sensors respectively'. Your DMM will lock on a good sensor at about 350 ohms (they are affected by temp too) but it will scroll over the meg mark and keep going on a duff one.

[Mr._Graybeard]

That looks pretty good until you look at it closely - it shows pin 14 and pin 16as being for both the input and output sensors (depending on polarity) for both the 5HP18 and 5HP30. Its Friday so I will be frank and say thats a load of bollocks. IMHO it should read something like 'put your meter across pins 16and 44, and 14 and 42 to get the resistance values of the input/output sensors respectively'. Your DMM will lock on a good sensor at about 350 ohms (they are affected by temp too) but it will scroll over the meg mark and keep going on a duff one.

Hm, I'm not sure what you're objecting to. The pages I linked to are from an online version of the ETM with pin assignments and schematic for the A5S560Z (5hp30) transmission control unit. Our friend dt8068 asked if there was one available.

[whiskychaser]

Hm, I'm not sure what you're objecting to. The pages I linked to are from an online version of the ETM with pin assignments and schematic for the A5S560Z (5hp30) transmission control unit. Our friend dt8068 asked if there was one available.
Perhaps I should have said 'The EGS compares the signals from the input and output sensors. But the pin assignment list appears to show both sensors connected to the same pins (14 and 16) That doesnt look right .Can anybody help me understand it?'
I thank you for posting the link and have saved the file for reference!:D

[Mr._Graybeard]

Perhaps I should have said 'The EGS compares the signals from the input and output sensors. But the pin assignment list appears to show both sensors connected to the same pins (14 and 16) That doesnt look right .Can anybody help me understand it?'
I thank you for posting the link and have saved the file for reference!:D


You can see the speed sensors on the schematic in the box that represents the valve body. The pins to one circuit are 14 and 44; the pins to the other are 16 and 42.

There's also a cylinder represented with broken lines around the circuits. From what I've read, I believe that's a grounding shield that protects the speed sensor circuits from interference. The pin chart identifies the connections to the shield (15 and 23) as Type M, which is the designation for grounding points. It's probably worth making sure that those points are providing good grounds.

The ETM link came from a sticky on bimmerboard, a great resource for all E34 models. I'm sure it's been cited here before, probably by Shogun. :)

[whiskychaser]

You can see the speed sensors on the schematic in the box that represents the valve body. The pins to one circuit are 14 and 44; the pins to the other are 16 and 42.

There's also a cylinder represented with broken lines around the circuits. From what I've read, I believe that's a grounding shield that protects the speed sensor circuits from interference. The pin chart identifies the connections to the shield (15 and 23) as Type M, which is the designation for grounding points. It's probably worth making sure that those points are providing good grounds.

The ETM link came from a sticky on bimmerboard, a great resource for all E34 models. I'm sure it's been cited here before, probably by Shogun. :)

Hadnt looked at the VB diagram - thats more like it! I agree you are looking at pins 14/44 and 16/42 for the speed sensors - but thats at odds with the pin chart :D Its no problem for me as I know which pins do what - but if I were coming at this for the first time I'd find that confusing. Still a great find though! Hope it helps dt8068 solve the problem:)

[dt8068]

Lots of great information here! Whiskeychaser - I think your confusion with pins 16 and 14 being wrong in the wiring diagram pdf that was posted, is that you were looking at the diagram for the EGS of the A4S-310R transmission. You need to look at the diagram for the AGS of the A5S-560Z trans (which is the 5hp30).

I just have one question - in the fault code chart, it lists the pins for the turbocharger speed sensor (which is the input speed sensor if I'm not mistaken) as 16 and 44. But, on the wiring diagram for the 5hp30 it looks like the input sensor is pins 14 and 44 (if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly).

[Mr._Graybeard]

I agree, it's confusing. It looks to me like pins 16 and 14 each connected to the turbine and output sensors at different dates of manufacture. I could be misreading it -- but it seems as though pins 42 and 44 are consistent regardless. So you should be able to determine which circuit is which by checking for continuity at 14, 16, 42 and 44.

Let me toss in my two cents here. You've got an apparently decent-shifting transmission with 212K miles on it that's starting to get a little erratic, but it's apparently not slipping, which is (IMO) the real kiss of death for an automatic. I suspect these transmission drive components are mechanically very robust -- it's the controls you have to worry about. If I were in your shoes, I'd think about replacing both sensors and doing a valve-body rebuild, as Tiger suggested. You're looking at maybe $200-$250 in parts. Beats a $5K total rebuild by a long shot, especially if you're willing to do the work yourself. The fluid/pan drop is a lot easier the second/third/fourth time around. I'd recommend throwing out the torx-head pan bolts, BTW, and replacing them with standard hex-head machine screws.

There's a lengthy and excellent writeup on the valve body rebuild on the Web; I just did the procedure on my 540 about 10K ago. The car now seems far less prone to downshift from 5th under load. Plus, there's the dreaded check ball issue to consider; it's worth opening the VB to check that hazard off the list of things that can go wrong...

I've got my V-8 under the knife as we correspond, BTW, bundling the ugly jobs around the front of the motor. New Graf water pump, voltage regulator (there was an interesting collection of jetsam under the cover on the back of the alt), new belt tensioner pulleys and (of course) new serpentine belts. Gonna test the cooling system for leaks Sunday.

Best wishes



Oh, and search the archives for Kirt Koeller and his phone number. He'll give you a good deal on the necessary transmission parts and all the technical support you could ask for.

[whiskychaser]

Lots of great information here! Whiskeychaser - I think your confusion with pins 16 and 14 being wrong in the wiring diagram pdf that was posted, is that you were looking at the diagram for the EGS of the A4S-310R transmission. You need to look at the diagram for the AGS of the A5S-560Z trans (which is the 5hp30).

I just have one question - in the fault code chart, it lists the pins for the turbocharger speed sensor (which is the input speed sensor if I'm not mistaken) as 16 and 44. But, on the wiring diagram for the 5hp30 it looks like the input sensor is pins 14 and 44 (if I'm reading the wiring diagram correctly).

I was looking at the pin out for your tranny on page 2460.7.a. It shows pins 14 and 16 for both the output and turbine speed sensor. They are two different sensors and the EGS has to compare the signals between them.
It cant do that if they arrive at the same pins. Which is why I made the initial remark about its accuracy:D
I know there is also a difference between what the fault code chart and the wiring diagram say about these pins. I think the fault code chart is right. Check it both ways and prove me wrong :D
The easiest way to check what causes the car to go into limp mode is to have the codes read;)