the headgasket blew :(

[BigKriss]

I was outside just checking my engine bay and looked at the coolant and there was this brown sludge in there. I emptied the radiator and there was some oil in the coolant also. I only replaced the coolant about 6-8 weeks ago :(

so yeah I'm going to buy a headgasket set and replace it myself. the engine never overheated so I won't be getting it planed straight. I replaced the headgasket myself around 25,000kms ago :(

I was thinking of reusing the head bolts.

Okay I'll take pictures later.

[Tiger]

Are you sure those are not leftover oil and sludge from before you changed the headgasket? I would do test before I do the headgasket. Easiest is the CO dye detector on your coolant. Coolant system pressure test.

[whiskychaser]

Are you sure those are not leftover oil and sludge from before you changed the headgasket? I would do test before I do the headgasket. Easiest is the CO dye detector on your coolant. Coolant system pressure test.
x1
No overheating, no coolant loss, no mayo and no crap in the oil? I'd def be doing some checks before ripping the head off:) But if it does come to it, I'd have the head pressure tested and checked for true. I'd always use new bolts whatever the motor - I'd probably break an old one part way through the final torque sequence :(

[632 Regal]

+1 on new head bolts


I'd always use new bolts whatever the motor - I'd probably break an old one part way through the final torque sequence :(

[tim eh?]

good luck Kriss - +1 I don't think it's worth skimping on bolts ever esp. for that kind of thing... always new stuff.

[Mordan]

new bolts sucks when you bought them new a few miles before lol happened to me.

of course doing the headgasket on those M20s and M30s is a lot easier than on newer engines. once you have done it once, it is easier than most jobs.

[Paul in NZ]

mine had a blown headgasket Chris,seemed to have no symptoms at all apart from a miss at start up.....no oil in coolant,no coolant in oil,no overheating,no seemingly mad over pressurizing in system...slowly increasing coolant consumption.New headgasket,new rocker arms,she is good for another 250 000 kms now

[Martin in Bellevue]

Get a machinist's straight edge & check the deck surfaces.

[nirvana19]

I can't contribute to the diagnosis, but is there any reason the head gasket would blow after only 25k?

[Sixdown]

Get a machinist's straight edge & check the deck surfaces.
Right. It could be a warped head from previously or the gasket just wasn't installed correctly.

[GJPinAU]

Time to upgrade to a V8.

Hey, I know where there is one for sale!

[BigKriss]

Thanks for eveyones comments. as for not replacing the head bolts there are comments to suggest it doesn't need doing. (http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52919&postcount=2)

Yeah it went in about 25,000kms. I'm almost certain that it's the head gasket because I never saw oil in the coolant before.

I don't think the head is warped only because I got it machined flat last time I installed it and I got it pressure tested for crack also and it and it never overheated this time.

Maybe I didn't install it correctly last time - I thought I did. I used plenty of hylomar to keep the gasket sticky. The surface of my block doesn't look too good. I used some jb weld to straighten out the block material to make it flat (poor English) I need to show you some pics later

I think think of anything else now to add. cheers :)

[632 Regal]

Okay I see Bill R's post, i thought these all were supposed to use new bolts including the M-30 up to a certain year or type of bolt.

JB weld to do what??? I might not want to know. Perhaps you didn't retorque the steps as it heats up and that caused the problem... if there really is a problem.

Just my 2¢

[BigKriss]

My old post when I chaged the headgasket last time got lost, so there was material missing from the block and I put Jb weld were the missing material was to make it "flat" again. I retorqued the steps properly as outlined in the Bentley manual. I just followed the Bentley manual mostly and responded to posts in my old thread.


Okay I see Bill R's post, i thought these all were supposed to use new bolts including the M-30 up to a certain year or type of bolt.

JB weld to do what??? I might not want to know. Perhaps you didn't retorque the steps as it heats up and that caused the problem... if there really is a problem.

Just my 2¢

[632 Regal]

okay I think if you really have a bad headgasket (if) then you need to disassemble to inspect. I am really unsure if you need one from what you have posted so far.

[632 Regal]

cant find you in my messenger list, contact me there dude.

[shogun]

"Unless specified otherwise, 30W motor oil is the standard lubricant for automotive fasteners. If we want to achieve loads similar to the OEMs. we need to lubricate our fasteners with 30W oil. Don’t forget that underhead and thread friction both need to be controlled, so lubricate both areas. In the case of head bolts going into the water jacket, the sealer on the threads will provide the lubrication needed, so just apply oil to the underside of the head of the bolt. Super lubricants may actually get you in trouble by relieving too much friction, leading to over-tightening."
and more here
Threaded Fasteners Torque-to-Yield and Torque-to-Angle
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/652338/


P.S.@ Kris, just sent out to your address the Meyle tie rod and the Hella voltage regulator by SAL, takes about 2 weeks to AUS.

[BigKriss]

theres some sludge in the radiator hoses, how do I get rid of that besides cleaning rags?

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1522/dsc00160medium.jpg

How do you remove the a/c lines - there in the middle of the pic - I disconnected and removed the a/c radiator but can't remove these two lines that go into the firewall

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9826/dsc00167medium.jpg

[BigKriss]

So it's been raining here a bit and I'm busy doing other work so it's slow progress but I'm almost ready to remove the cylinder head now. It's taken me about 10 hours so far to get to here.

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8861/dsc00197medium.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2918/dsc00191medium.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9149/dsc00190medium.jpg


note to myself. install the manifold first and then the first part of the exhaust.

[BigKriss]

maybe low octane fuel. I never heard any knocking though.


I can't contribute to the diagnosis, but is there any reason the head gasket would blow after only 25k?

[whiskychaser]

Wow! With the M50 you can leave the exhaust manifold on the head and just disconnect it at the downpipe. You dont need to remove the rad, grille or bumper and the aircon lines arent in the way. That looks like a right PITA

[BigKriss]

I removed the a/c condensor and lines, am raplcing the water pump, removing the alternator and doing some other work, so I removed everything to get to things easier.

I removed the exhaust manifold because with it on the car, the cylinder head is to heavy to lift out of the engine bay


Wow! With the M50 you can leave the exhaust manifold on the head and just disconnect it at the downpipe. You dont need to remove the rad, grille or bumper and the aircon lines arent in the way. That looks like a right PITA

[whiskychaser]

I removed the exhaust manifold because with it on the car, the cylinder head is to heavy to lift out of the engine bay
Yes its heavy and really on the limit of what I can lift on my own - particularly as you are leaning over the wing at the time. The benefit to me of leaving it on was not having to mess with the manifold bolts and its something to hang on to. When it came to putting the head back on, I placed a couple of bits of thin timber across the top of the block. That way I didnt catch an open valve on the block face and bend it and I could also wiggle the head a bit to make sure the dowels were lined up nicely.

[BigKriss]

yeah i need my father to help me lift the head off the car with just the intake manifold there. it would be impossible for me to lift the hear head up by myself without anything attached to it to. I will put two pieces of wood across the car, so when i lift it initally, just a few inches, I will rest it on some wood planks first and then in a second effort out of the engine bay.


Yes its heavy and really on the limit of what I can lift on my own - particularly as you are leaning over the wing at the time. The benefit to me of leaving it on was not having to mess with the manifold bolts and its something to hang on to. When it came to putting the head back on, I placed a couple of bits of thin timber across the top of the block. That way I didnt catch an open valve on the block face and bend it and I could also wiggle the head a bit to make sure the dowels were lined up nicely.

[BigKriss]

I don't know whats wrong with it, the head looks fine, the block looks fine, the headgasket looks fine also :(

There was a lot of sludge when I removed the headbolts on the block circled below. I don't know what else to do. I guess I'm going to put on a new headgasket and hope for the best.
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7631/m30block.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7706/head1d.jpg

[Jeff N.]

If you haven't already, get the head pressure tested before re-installing. You could have a crack somewhere.

[whiskychaser]

There looks to be a load crap on that block face but I'm sure it was spotless when you put the head on. No insult intended, but you did dry out the bolt holes to prevent dieseling?

[DaveVoorhis]

Might be worth getting the head pressure-tested in case it's cracked somewhere. On my first E34 with the M20 engine, the head was cracked around the cam journals. No apparent failure of gasket or surfaces.

[DaveVoorhis]

No insult intended, but you did dry out the bolt holes to prevent dieseling?
You can get worse than dieseling if the bolt holes aren't dried thoroughly. The locked-in fluid will expand and crack the block.

[whiskychaser]

You can get worse than dieseling if the bolt holes aren't dried thoroughly. The locked-in fluid will expand and crack the block.
Exactly. There was me trying to be subtle:)

[DaveVoorhis]

Exactly. There was me trying to be subtle:)
Oops. That was me being thick as a brick. :p

[BigKriss]

Yeah, last time and this time, the bolt holes were cleaned of oil and dyed and then I used a tap for the bolt holes also to clean them up.


You can get worse than dieseling if the bolt holes aren't dried thoroughly. The locked-in fluid will expand and crack the block.

[Mendozart]

Might be worth getting the head pressure-tested in case it's cracked somewhere. On my first E34 with the M20 engine, the head was cracked around the cam journals. No apparent failure of gasket or surfaces.

+1
My head surface and gasket looked good, but there was an internal crack.

[BigKriss]

I think the heads fine but the block is not so good.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9735/dsc00241large.jpg

I'm going to try and patch up the coolant passages with jb weld onbe more time and if the headgasket goes again then I will put in a second hand engine.

[Mordan]

I think the heads fine but the block is not so good.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9735/dsc00241large.jpg

I'm going to try and patch up the coolant passages with jb weld onbe more time and if the headgasket goes again then I will put in a second hand engine.

thx for the update. what happened to the block? It looks melted

[Bimmerman]

Thats where he did the JB weld I believe... Big K if you need a hand I'm in Sydney for another month or so...

[whiskychaser]

From the pics it looks like you have got 'good metal' for max half the width of the gasket in two places. I'd be looking to an engineering firm to grind it out, weld it up and make sure it was flat afterwards. There is a lot of work involved to strip it all down again if it goes pear shaped:(

[BigKriss]

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8581/dsc00242h.jpg
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/2697/dsc00243.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2182/dsc00245p.jpg

so theres some more pics of it. if it doesnt work again then I will have to look for a second hand engine and put it in. yeah.

[632 Regal]

You should be able to have the deck surfaced easily enough, just need to strip the block down.

[BigKriss]

I'm not going to do that I dont want the trouble of removing and rebuilding the engine.

[Bimmerman]

I'm not going to do that I dont want the trouble of removing and rebuilding the engine.

Ever consider a V8?

[BigKriss]

then i need a new trans also, so no.


Ever consider a V8?

[BigKriss]

Okay still going here. well i needed a new tensioner bracket and I thought I pruchased one a long time ago, but I went to install it and it was the wrong one :( so i have to wait untill it comes so i can drive the car as its attached to the power steering pump :(

I put some Ireland Engineering urethane trans mounts in.

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=63775&highlight=
They fit okay (fine). I guy on mye28.com told me about them, as for quite a long time I could never get a proper answer on my auto trans mounts :(

Still haven't put the cylinder head back on.

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9537/dsc00248y.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4204/dsc00251g.jpg
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6457/dsc00253u.jpg

[BigKriss]

OKay more stuff, I found my first headgaket change post here;
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?p=240986 - There's some background on the time I did it.

I just had a look through my photos and I don't know what going on here, you can see in this picture that when I took the valve cover off and the timing chain cover off, the dowl on the camshaft sprocket is 180 degrees off? this seems weird as I'm almost ceratin the top dead center mark on the vibration damper is aligned properly. I will check tomorrow to make certain. but I don't know why it has moved. the picture was before the head was taken off, and did 20,000kms like that.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/479/dsc00205t.jpg

[632 Regal]

if the top cams were synced to the bottom end then no need to worry. the dowels and marks are a reference only. Id post more but I have a fu~king turtle on the floor got to go.

[BigKriss]

its running again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWP0QNpsMj4

[BigKriss]

so I filled it up with water and took it for a run but now the car is idling rough and when I drive it there's no power (about 30%) under WOT and the car is missing. I checked the cps (new item) gapped to ~1mm, check the leads, they seemd okay, spar plugs okay (but will put in new items tomorrow),

I'm thinking there might be an exhaust leak on the downpipes where they attach to the exhasut manifold. Do the two flanges have to touch each other to seal properly? becasue when I tightened them up they weren't doing that. its not noisy down there and I cant smell an exhasut leak. so maybe it's the leads (i dont think so). any other idea guys?

[myles]

Are you a tooth off with the cam timing?

[BigKriss]

I don't think so the cam alignment is out - even if it was, wouldn't the car pull strong either up low or up top? It seems ****ed all the way through the rev range and it almost wants to stall sometimes (but never does), such as when you get on the throttle from standstill.

I aligned the crank to 0|T and the cam was aligned properly (that I know of). Yeah. I dont really know what else to do. I put in a new CPS, so I thought that maybe it, but I put the feeling gauge on .85mm and then a tiny bit more for the 1mm. Initially the cps was set at .5mm but the car still seemed to run the same when I widened the gap slightly.

Yeah one other item I mucked around with was the AFM, I stuffed around with it not knowing what I was doing. but I reset it to fully in, and then 1.5 turns outward. but it didn't seem to make any difference again :(

There are no intake leaks I can see. I checked all the hoses and few times so I'm thinking that the downpipe isn't mating to the exhaust mainfold properly, but I can't work out whats wrong.

I will go over it tomorrow again. Thanks Myles.




Are you a tooth off with the cam timing?

[Martin in Bellevue]

Kris, can you rotate the crank back to TDC #1, bringing the cam dimple closest to the block surface? How's the motor run with the cam 180 degrees out?
Also, where'd you get the idea to jb weld the block?

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/479/dsc00205t.jpg

[BigKriss]

the cam is 180 degrees out in that photo but I rotated back to normal before it started.

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showpost.php?p=249189&postcount=1


Kris, can you rotate the crank back to TDC #1, bringing the cam dimple closest to the block surface? How's the motor run with the cam 180 degrees out?
Also, where'd you get the idea to jb weld the block?

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/479/dsc00205t.jpg

[genphreak]

Hey Kris, the flanges don't go togetehr all the way, usually an obvious gap, the seal is made between each pipe's pressed end (flange) and the manifold joiner. If you have a leak, it will tell you very loudly this close to the engine the moment she fires up. The heating of the manifold/expansion is likely to reduce it if you do.

How have you started her? After this kind of task the engine should be run on pure water for some time as the gasket will leak whilst its bedding in- certainly until you've got it torqued after the run-in. She's pretty thin on so I'd say your prep is critical to this job. Did you re-dress it with a mill-smooth file? That head surface needs to be perfect to the touch for the gasket to seal, as well as the high points flattened out. Did you use any sealer? Did the number 1 spark plug issue resolve ok?

[BigKriss]

hey Nick, yeah I ran the car and retorqued the headbolts. I stipped a bolt somehow on the distributor cap, so I think it's running poorly becasue of that I dont know for sure becasue I have still to replace the bolt on it. I filled it up with just water so far, but will replace it with coolant shortly after its on the road again. the exuast is quiet so thanks for the tip on joing the manifold to the downpipe, I guess its fine then.

I used some hylomer om the block to keep the gasket stuck to it but none on the head.

I should have run a tap though the sparkplug holes when the head was off but I stupidly didnt, so I just put a lot of grease on a tap and put it into the sparkplug whole with the head on. the sparkplug goes in so easy now.

The other issue is the battery is flat, I disconnected it while it was off the road, but I put a new headdeck in and I was playing around with it when the car was off the road. so are these battery chargers okay; what would you buy?

http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=MB3604&CATID=18&form=CAT&SUBCATID=295

http://www.jaycar.com/productView.asp?ID=MB3606&CATID=18&form=CAT&SUBCATID=295

The car <barely> started last time.

cheers



Hey Kris, the flanges don't go togetehr all the way, usually an obvious gap, the seal is made between each pipe's pressed end (flange) and the manifold joiner. If you have a leak, it will tell you very loudly this close to the engine the moment she fires up. The heating of the manifold/expansion is likely to reduce it if you do.


How have you started her? After this kind of task the engine should be run on pure water for some time as the gasket will leak whilst its bedding in- certainly until you've got it torqued after the run-in. She's pretty thin on so I'd say your prep is critical to this job. Did you re-dress it with a mill-smooth file? That head surface needs to be perfect to the touch for the gasket to seal, as well as the high points flattened out. Did you use any sealer? Did the number 1 spark plug issue resolve ok?

[BigKriss]

yeah I pulled the valve cover cover toady and two of the headbolts had backed out (wtf) and I need a another engine. okay cya.

[genphreak]

Hey Kris, the screws on the dizzy cap only locate it they are unliklely to make any real difference unless its wobbling around. They are awful those things, designed by electrical (not plastics) engineers I suspect ;)

Anyway the bad running is makig me think its water again or the cam/crank gear positioning, nothing else it can be if your plugs are not all fouled (?)...

This is bad, I hop it works out. It has to!