rookie steering questions...

[tim eh?]

Just about ready to tackle the front end (i think I can) and I have a couple of really dumb questions first- I've never done anything like this before. First I'll hit the steering column but I would like to also change the tie-rods and idler arm bushing, then maybe get the front shocks and mounts done at my favourite garage.

1- (really dumb) when it says to raise the front of the car in the bentley, can I just do it on ramps or do the front wheels have to be up?
ie it's just so you can get underneath?

2- ball joint puller - I should get one I think - any suggestions?

any other tips? I've been reading other threads I am such a newb. :D

[whiskychaser]

Just about ready to tackle the front end (i think I can) and I have a couple of really dumb questions first- I've never done anything like this before. First I'll hit the steering column but I would like to also change the tie-rods and idler arm bushing, then maybe get the front shocks and mounts done at my favourite garage.

1- (really dumb) when it says to raise the front of the car in the bentley, can I just do it on ramps or do the front wheels have to be up?
ie it's just so you can get underneath?

2- ball joint puller - I should get one I think - any suggestions?

any other tips? I've been reading other threads I am such a newb. :D

If you are working on suspension you need the wheels off the ground. The wheels will be in your way anyway and you dont need the weight of the body on the springs and roll bar making life any more difficult
Suggest you get a ball joint splitter something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laser-Ball-joint-splitter-scissor-type-0282_W0QQitemZ270390958694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ca rsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item270390958694&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
If you use the 'fork' type that you hit with a hammer, you run the risk of splitting the joint rubbers and having to replace the joint
I dont want to sound patronising, but if you are new to this a couple of safety tips:
1. Put car on axle stands and chock the rear wheels. Put car in gear or park and pull the handbrake on. Then push it as hard as you can to the side and front and back. Better find out now its not on properly than if you are underneath heaving away with a breaker bar
2. Put the wheels you have taken off underneath the car
3. Dont work under the car on your own. Have somebody standing by even if its to pass you a spanner, hold your coat or make you cups of tea.
My apologies if I sound like your grandfather

[mzarifkar]

I went through 2 different balljoin pullers without success, I finally removed the whole assembly by loosening the steering arms and having away at ball joints with a large hammer.
Good luck!!

[tim eh?]

My apologies if I sound like your grandfather
not at all - that is why I gave the noob alert so I'd get life-saving tips like that. thanks for the link also.


If you are working on suspension you need the wheels off the ground.


ok but I just want to do the steering. I should explain the situation a bit.

My car's front jacking points are patched and won't support the car. I don't have ramps or stands but I would prefer just to get ramps mostly for that reason but the work area is sloped and not brilliant for stands... also I am a lazy ass. I was hoping I could do whatever I could with ramps, then get the shocks done at the garage along with an alignment.

[tim eh?]

I went through 2 different balljoin pullers without success, I finally removed the whole assembly by loosening the steering arms and having away at ball joints with a large hammer.
Good luck!!

why wouldn't they work? see.... me+steering+hammer=trouble is what I am afraid of...

[whiskychaser]

You could probably do steering with just ramps but I wouldnt use them on a hill. If you have good eye-hand coordination you can free the ball joints using two hammers. You just have to make sure you hit the flange through which the taper passes on both sides at the same time - and not the rubber on the joint;) This may be 'old school' but you might need the technique if you use a splitter and the joint still refuses to play:)

[leicesterboy15]

oh man, ball joints are one of satan's creations, they turn a simple job into a complete effin nightmare! Do not attempt it without the right tools! I am a relative noob at this stuff and I say you NEED the ball joint separator and only the type in the above link will do. It will come in handy for all suspension jobs so think of it as an investment. Even with this tool its still not what I would call easy!

Some say you can smack it with a hammer, probably true if you are good or experienced with this stuff (or a bit kamikazi) but when you think that you are stuck under the car at the time and there are things in every direction to stop you getting a good swing - and you need accuracy as well. Then theres the method where you take the complete sub frame from the car, again great if you are a veteran but you are talking many more bolts to do this and if just one gets stuck you are in the same boat - and you're 5 hours down the line and minus a few more knuckles.

If you're doing the steering you'll need a splitter for the tie rods anyway, and make sure you're face is well away from the arms you are splitting because when the ball joint pops out its ferocious.

The above is all relative though to how long the parts have been on the car (among a few other things) which is why some people have it easy and some people have it really tough - unfortunately I was the latter, I had to take mine to the garage in the end to remove the ball joints for the susp so when I did the tie rods I got the puller and all went well!

[whiskychaser]

make sure you're face is well away from the arms you are splitting because when the ball joint pops out its ferocious.

Thats because you have the splitter under so much tension:D Thats why I said give it a tap if it refuses to play. Its a bit like using a valve spring compressor and not giving the collets a tap first. The power of the hammer is greatly under-rated. As is the power of the left boot when you can only get a ring spanner on where a socket should go (e.g. guibo nuts)

[Tiger]

Yes, you can work on ramp to do your steering. I have done it twice. Not a problem. When you put in your tie rod, adjust it so it just slips in easily or your alignment would be way way way off.

The secret to make the job easier is... big hammer... the heavier it is, the easier it is... 24 or 32 oz. ball pean. All I used was a split fork. It has to be the narrowest on your can get... still cheap. If you can't get it off, turn the fork around and have at it. One side is way way way easier to pop ball joint off.

Be absolutely sure you installed it the right way before you tighten down the nut... or you are gonna have to whack on the new parts to get it off... believe me, I have done this too.

[tim eh?]

I might me able to find the dough for this little guy... and save up for ramps later maybe, and self-locking nuts. That ebay link is gone so I'm not sure. So is this with a proper hammer the best gear for the job or should I get a fork instead/as well?

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6782&stc=1&d=1242621921


One side is way way way easier to pop ball joint off.


let me guess... the driver side is way way easier. when I first got the car I had the front shocks replaced. They also did the ds tie rod and said the rest was still ok... right shock is starting to leak already but it is 15,000km on and the steering is getting loose again and the mounts and springs are pretty old I think.

It will be a while before I do this anyway but ideally I'd like to do as much of the steering as I can and get it right the first time using the right parts and the right tools. I think ramps would be very handy to have also, stands would make me nervous where I work - don't worry gramps, it's just a little uneven. You know, if you have a lancashire accent you probably do sound like my grandfather used to. :D Thanks for all your advice guys!

Oh and if anyone wants to lend me a 32mm spanner for a couple of days I'd be much obliged. holy #$@% 32mm yeah just let me check my pockets...

[632 Regal]

I don't think this toy will be up to the job. Coarse threads are a pretty good indicator.

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6782&stc=1&d=1242621921

[e34.535i.sport]

As is the power of the left boot when you can only get a ring spanner on where a socket should go (e.g. guibo nuts)

... Or even differential flange bolts. ;)

[e34.535i.sport]

I might me able to find the dough for this little guy... and save up for ramps later maybe, and self-locking nuts. That ebay link is gone so I'm not sure. So is this with a proper hammer the best gear for the job or should I get a fork instead/as well?

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6782&stc=1&d=1242621921


No, as grampa Whisky suggested you want one of these:

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/52000174/Images/3/LAS-0282.jpg

Don't bother with anything else - this will do the job if you use it correctly.

A good tip if you don't wan the arm to ping out is to leave the nut on the end of the thread when you're removing it. Just make sure it's on enough so it holds and doesn't damage the thread when it pops. Don't be too scared though, once you've done one you'll wonder what you were worrying about. :D

[e34.535i.sport]

Oh and if anyone wants to lend me a 32mm spanner for a couple of days I'd be much obliged...

Where you at? I have one if your near the NW UK... Will probably cost you more in juice to pick it up than to buy one though to be honest! :p

[Tiger]

If you are not reusing the part, just use the fork. Once the fork is in right position... it pops out rather easy with a couple of hits. Otherwise you need the scissor type that 535 is saying with that link.

The real key is the hammer... heavier is better...32 oz makes the job so much easier... 40oz is solid! Cheap enough on HarborFreight and maybe on ebay.

[whiskychaser]

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6782&stc=1&d=1242621921

I think the people who designed this are the same people who make ball joints - The fork end makes nice holes in the rubber and lets the grease out so you need to buy a new a new joint. Think there is a consensus that the scissor type is best and you can probably get one for less money. A good 2lb hammer is a must for any tool kit.
While I come from Lancashire I dont eat tripe, black pudding or cow heel pie -or have the accent:D

[tim eh?]

:D - figures that's the only model canadian tire (or 'crappy tire' as some call it) has. Not to bash canadian tire, I buy lots of stuff there, but they do sell some garbage.


If you are not reusing the part, just use the fork.

I don't want to reuse any parts. I'd like to do it all in one go - 3 tie rods, tie rod ends, idler arm - so... tear away then?
Should I look at anything else? What about the 'rod lever' part#1?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HC23&mospid=47402&btnr=32_0336&hg=32&fg=25

So here's my shopping list then:

center, left & right tie rods
tie rod ends
idler arm
locking nuts

ramps
big ballpean hammer
skinniest fork

rod lever? (not the tennis player)
scissor puller tool? maybe not if I can bust 'em up?

Am I missing anything?



Where you at?
:D haven't installed the hovercraft option yet... yeah I'll go get one... a wrench that is.


While I come from Lancashire I dont eat tripe, black pudding or cow heel pie
what about fried bread?

[Tiger]

No on #1.. don't need it.

[whiskychaser]

:
what about fried bread?
No. I dont eat that either but I know people who do:D I do eat Lancashire Hot Pot but not often. And it has to be made with smoked bacon. Oh, and despite what my good friend E34.535i.sport says, I am not grampa! :D

[e34.535i.sport]

... Oh, and despite what my good friend e34.535i.sport says, i am not grampa! :d

:d

[leicesterboy15]

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6782&stc=1&d=1242621921

I think the people who designed this are the same people who make ball joints - The fork end makes nice holes in the rubber and lets the grease out so you need to buy a new a new joint. Think there is a consensus that the scissor type is best and you can probably get one for less money. A good 2lb hammer is a must for any tool kit.
While I come from Lancashire I dont eat tripe, black pudding or cow heel pie -or have the accent:D

I've got all three - the fork, this thing and the scissor type. Each time one didn't work I had to go out and buy the next one up.

The only way this thing works is to leave the nut on the end by a few threads as 535 says but it still has a tendancy to slip.

[Ross]

If you are not reusing the part, just use the fork. Once the fork is in right position... it pops out rather easy with a couple of hits. Otherwise you need the scissor type that 535 is saying with that link.

The real key is the hammer... heavier is better...32 oz makes the job so much easier... 40oz is solid! Cheap enough on HarborFreight and maybe on ebay.

Tiger is right. No need to be tip toeing around parts destined for the heap.
I use a three pound hammer and usually a couple good whacks is all it takes.
A word of caution; when removing the tie rod ends, ball joints etc. loosen the nut all the way first then thread it back on a couple of turns to retain the parts when things succumb to brute force. This way you won't have parts flying about.
Also DON'T put the locking nuts back on too far, into the prevailing torque castellated or nylock area or the stud will spin with nut once loose from the steering knuckle. Guess how I learned this?

[tim eh?]

guys once again thanks a whole lot! tbc I am sure!

[tim eh?]

ok I have finally had a good look underneath and I am confused about the idler arm / pitman arm / drop arm.

on this realoem diagram they are bits#10
10 DROP ARM D=28MM 1 09/1989 32211134126 ENDED
10 DROP ARM D=30MM 1 09/1989 32211137467 $130.57

and #14
14 Pitman arm D=27MM 1 32211136450 $83.70

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6854&stc=1&d=1245602016


So what's the deal - my 'drop arm' looks original but the pitman arm has been replaced at some point, along with the centre tie-rod and the right-side tie rod. I kind of want to do it all once. Should I replace the 'drop arm' too while I am doing this? I can't imagine there is a way to test it while it's on there.

***-whoops i mean pitman looks original, but drop arm has been replaced.

Ugly little pitman...

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6855&stc=1&d=1245602072

...'drop arm'...

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6856&stc=1&d=1245602771

and yes i greased the suckers... hope that's not a bad thing but the creaking is starting to get really annoying.