Instrument cluster / phony mileage ….

[RockJock]

I’m assuming that the only way to clock an E34 is to swap out the instrument cluster with a lower mileage one. Thus, I’d like to know if there’s a definitive way to verify the originality of an instrument cluster. In Canada, it’s very, very common to find j-spec E34’s with either no or spotty history records, ratty interiors, more mechanical wear than their suspiciously low odometer readings seem to indicate….kinda like trying to pass-off a 45 year old cougar as a 21 year old hottie.

[Ross]

The coding plug contains the mileage and VIN.
If you hold in the right(?) side button on the cluster it will display it's identity, including VIN. If a cluster is swapped the #s won't match unless the coding plug was also changed in which case the original mileage would be displayed.
The plugs can be reprogrammed but by very few. Shogun has a contact in Germany that is capable but not for purposes of fraud. Given the values of E34s and the difficulty of resetting the odometer clocking these cars is a fools errand. If your VIN matches what the cluster displays I'd be confident the reading is correct. Unless you have reason to suspect it could have been clocked long ago when it might be cost effective for the perpetrator.

[RockJock]

The coding plug contains the mileage and VIN.
If you hold in the right(?) side button on the cluster it will display it's identity, including VIN. If a cluster is swapped the #s won't match unless the coding plug was also changed in which case the original mileage would be displayed.
The plugs can be reprogrammed but by very few. Shogun has a contact in Germany that is capable but not for purposes of fraud. Given the values of E34s and the difficulty of resetting the odometer clocking these cars is a fools errand. If your VIN matches what the cluster displays I'd be confident the reading is correct. Unless you have reason to suspect it could have been clocked long ago when it might be cost effective for the perpetrator.

Many thanks Ross. I just checked and on my 535iM, when I hold the button in, the central display shows a rectangular box then a few seconds later all the pixels light up…but no VIN number; can someone verify this on their car pretty please?! On j-spec imports I think clocking is common place, as I’ve seen several j-spec E34’s with less than 80K km on them with interiors that look much worse than my 89 535iM with 289K km on the clock with an “average” looking interior….I think it’s way easier to sell them on those site-unseen online Japanese auction houses when they’re clocked....

[shogun]

You are completely wrong. J-spec cars do not need clocking and it is completely unneccessary.
I have several 750, and no one has 200.000 km.
Standard in Japan is about 7.500 km per year in average. Often much less.

I can buy here cars with 50.000 km which are 15-20 years old, no problem at all.
People do not use usually to drive to office in the crowded areas of greater Tokyo Bay. First of all, train/subway is much faster and more convenient, and also cheaper.

And for long distances we use bullet trains, and they are also faster and more convenient and cheaper.

If something happens, then it happens between the Japanese export and the arrival at the enduser site in another country.
And yes, the car could look more used than you have seen on your car with 289 k km.
Because the time spent for let's say 100 k km is maybe the same like you spend in Canada for 289 k km.
I have an average speed of 25 kmh at the moment on my OBC, so you know how fast we go from A to B.
Here in Tokyo Bay we have more than 30 mio. people, and that is about 1/3 of the total population of Japan. Whenever possible, people avoid using a car, public transport is much more convenient, faster, cheaper and safer.

Your 1989 has the grey cluster, and there are not so many data to get out, there is no self test, see here
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/299960/299960.html

And of course it can be checked what a car has been driven. If the car was maintenanced by BMW Japan, always they write down the km on the invoice, and for Shaken (road test certificate) they also record the details.
But is it really worth to 'modify' the miles/km on a 20 year old car? I would be proud of it if my car had 500.000 km, but unfortunately my daily driver has only 156.000 km so far and that is from 11/1988.
And that I bought in 1994 with 32.000 km, and that was 100% not faked, because the car was owned by the uncle of my wife. And I know the history of the car better than he knows. So 6 years 32.000 kms only. He only used the car on weekends to drive to the mountain areas for the golf resort he invited his business friends, that was all the car was used. For real business he never used it, he used the public transport.

[RockJock]

Thanks kindly Erich :), I stand corrected. Don’t get me wrong as I’ve seen some stunning j-spec examples that were in absolutely beautiful shape. Then I’ve also seem some pretty rough cars. Just recently I saw an E34 M5 that was imported from Germany with 185K km. Full history file, pristine interior, very, very clean exterior. Shortly thereafter I looked at a j-spec E34, no history file, < 50K km, peeling clear coat on the hood and roof, trashed interior, running rough and belching blue smoke. From what you’re saying then, many of the j-spec cars must have seen lots n’ lots n’ lots of “idle time”...

[shogun]

Yes, lot's of idle time. And also very important is where the cars were parked. My car always has been parked in a ventilated garage = under a roof, even some years in a garage with aircon in a large bulding complex.
The paint is nice, the interior is nice, no paint peeling. Then I have seen BMW of the same age, always parked outside without cover.
Paint completely different, headliner coming down, leather colour faded and so on, even the wood is affected by that heat and sunshine. Here in Tokyo for example we have in the summer time temperatures of around 30-40 degree C, in raining season >90% humidtiy.

Cars from Germany usually have high km, but often these high km come from long Autobahn drives. So the wear is completely different.
For example to drive a car in Japan for 10 k km< doors are opened x times more, engines are started x times more, car has been running thousands of hours more in idle, brakes have been used more often but less hard than in Germany on the Autobahn, cars in Japan are not over-reved than compared with Germany on Autobahn, because no way to drive fast. Max speed is limited to 100 kmh, even on Highway.
As I am also active on the German board, I have noticed that they have different probs than we have in Japan, because the use of the car is different.
Still I belive that cars from Japan are generally a good buy, not much corrosion, unless they are from certain areas (for example Okinawa Islands), and usually maintained by dealers, not much DIY.
Of course, as in any other country, it finally is all up to the previous owner how he maintained the car.

[shogun]

to answer your original question:


I’m assuming that the only way to clock an E34 is to swap out the instrument cluster with a lower mileage one. Thus, I’d like to know if there’s a definitive way to verify the originality of an instrument cluster.

To swap out the cluster is the amateur mistake by shady dealers. Some years back I have helped a guy in Germany to win a court case.
The stupid dealer has swapped the cluster. So the chip had all data from the other car, VIN was different in the cluster chip and other data.
Dealer had to pay about 2000 $, clocked back 100000 kms.

Basically it is very easy on the clusters with blue and white back, the other one in the wire loom for the grey cluster requires more time.
But the seal where the chip is installed in the back of the cluster will be destroyed when taking the chip out for 'adjustment'.
You can assume that a chip fixer for these shady dealers also has the right seal material.

There are no other stored data than in the chip, not in the keys or other places, which should not be mentioned here.

For the guys which have the 299.960 problem, where with they grey cluster backside it stops to count, it is only of importance to make sure that the new cluster with another chip and identity from the other car will be adopted to the new (own) car, that means VIN data and others, and the original miles/km the car has, not to make less miles, because these people are proud of their many miles and they want to have it recorded.

Ufortunately, I will never make half a million km/miles.
That would be something to show off.....

maybe I need some chip tuning ;-)
+400 k km

[RockJock]

Erich, as always, very helpful. Vielen Dank!

PS. I think you need to bring one of your E32’s to Canada; tour this beautiful country coast-to-coast, then visit our friends south of the 49th parallel and walla!....you’ll have your 500K km ;) ......

[Ken35i]

Hmm interesting stuff. I've often suspected my car has been clocked. Bit of a shabby interior (just the door liners), somthing like 142,000kms (for a ~20 year old car in Australia that is somewhat low) on the clock (when I bought it) and it was imported from Hong Kong. There's a red light, which is off under normal conditions, next to the ODO which will turn on if the milage has been tampered with, so I've heard.
So my car, and assuming the cluster, is an 09/89 535i, the cluster won't display the VIN? Any other way to check? part numbers?

[shogun]

09/89 should be a white backplate and the chip is in the back of the cluster.
02/89 -> 09/90 White PIC 93C46 1024 bytes Self test + diagnosis via Modic. Code plug is standard EPROM
At least on E32 cars.

and you should be able to make a self test and display the VIN.
You can also remove the cluster and check the chip, usually it has the VIN number on it
http://i28.tinypic.com/102uw5h.jpg

[shogun]

here another example, Japan re-import to Germany, E24 635Csi from 08.1985, only 98.000 km, show room quality
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140323626129&rvr_id=&AID=45993&psid1=728x90_img&aid=45993&psid4=&psid3=760,760i,750,750i,750d,740,745,745i,740i,740 d,735,735i,730,750i,728,725&psid2=9837&lid=tnb32&sid=

[RockJock]

Hmm interesting stuff. I've often suspected my car has been clocked. Bit of a shabby interior (just the door liners), somthing like 142,000kms (for a ~20 year old car in Australia that is somewhat low) on the clock (when I bought it) and it was imported from Hong Kong. There's a red light, which is off under normal conditions, next to the ODO which will turn on if the milage has been tampered with, so I've heard.
So my car, and assuming the cluster, is an 09/89 535i, the cluster won't display the VIN? Any other way to check? part numbers?

I just stumbled onto this: http://www.investigatemagazine.com/docs/carxtr.htm
So, I guess it can be extremely profitable in your general neck of the woods?!?

not in Australia:
Odometer fraud is virtually unheard of in Australia. The Australians have very tough consumer laws and the Aussies are less than tolerant when it comes to the consumer being ripped off.

in Canada:
While most JDM vehicles are in stunning condition for their age, there are tactics that are coming to light that the used car business in North America would rather forget. “Odometer fraud is rampant in Japan,” says Krebs. With the Pacific Ocean as the ultimate warranty buffer, some unscrupulous individuals will roll back odometers to obtain higher purchase prices. To help combat the problem, dealer auctions require full disclosure of consignment vehicles from private parties. At present, there is little information that is easily obtainable about a vehicle’s collision history.

from here: http://www.canadiandriver.com/2006/02/27/feature-japanese-import-cars-in-manitoba.htm

[Elekta]

I've always suspected my odo because the sticker was off the coding plug. I guess when the panel was out of the car I should have removed the plug just to check the VIN, but I didn't.

question:What I would like to do is change my odo to miles from km's. I would like to do this at 100k or 161km when it reads that on my km clock...whether or not it's been tampered with. Can I just take a US coding plug and have it set to 100k and then swap it out when I reach it? My T will never be going back to Euro so I would like to use the measurement I am used to...it certainly helps with directions and gas mileage.

my cluster with the sticker gone from the plug
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/L1020432.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/codingplug.jpg

[whiskychaser]

Many thanks Ross. I just checked and on my 535iM, when I hold the button in, the central display shows a rectangular box then a few seconds later all the pixels light up…but no VIN number; can someone verify this on their car pretty please?!
Ross is right. Hold the button in then turn on the ignition. It will scroll a load of numbers where the 'rectangular box' is and finish with a nice display of all your warning lights and gauges working. If you have the dash with the blue back, its a piece of cake to take the back off and substitute another. That way there is no sign of tampering. When I got my car it had litres/kmph. I swapped the front and it now shows gallons/mph but the display still shows km run as the chip is still the same. That tallies with all the annual MOT certs I have since it was imported

[myles]

I don't think the blue clusters had the vin sticker on the coding plug, at least none of the ones that I've seen have had one.

[shogun]

see here blue
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/299960/new_cp_location.jpg
http://img199.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/9/1/4/9/m11b58-img600x450-1202877058dsc00532.jpg
1993 740 http://img153.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/7/0/8/2/testinium-img600x450-1188954696mvc-004s.jpg

white
http://img157.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/7/0/8/2/testinium-img600x450-1186458746mvc-011s.jpg
grey from backside
http://img275.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/7/0/8/2/testinium-img600x450-1203938504750gray2.jpg

[RockJock]

Ross is right. Hold the button in then turn on the ignition. It will scroll a load of numbers where the 'rectangular box' is and finish with a nice display of all your warning lights and gauges working. If you have the dash with the blue back, its a piece of cake to take the back off and substitute another. That way there is no sign of tampering. When I got my car it had litres/kmph. I swapped the front and it now shows gallons/mph but the display still shows km run as the chip is still the same. That tallies with all the annual MOT certs I have since it was imported

Indeed, it works on my 91 E34 (blue cluster) but not on my 89 E34 (grey cluster). Many thanks :).

[myles]

[QUOTE=shogun;324814]see here blue
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/299960/new_cp_location.jpg
http://img199.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/9/1/4/9/m11b58-img600x450-1202877058dsc00532.jpg
1993 740 http://img153.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/7/0/8/2/testinium-img600x450-1188954696mvc-004s.jpg

Well there you go. I thought it was odd the ones that I've got dont have a sticker

[Mordan]

when a car history is shady, car mileage is totally irrelevant. what matters are the handling and the engine behavior, as well as the condition of the interior
2 of my cars have suspiciously low mileage. so they mean nothing to me. on my E34, virtually everything has been replaced at least once. The engine has been changed at least 2 times!! shocks, exhaust. only the manual transmission looks like the original.

by the way, great post from shogun. love reading them.

[shogun]

I've always suspected my odo because the sticker was off the coding plug. I guess when the panel was out of the car I should have removed the plug just to check the VIN, but I didn't.

question:What I would like to do is change my odo to miles from km's. I would like to do this at 100k or 161km when it reads that on my km clock...whether or not it's been tampered with. Can I just take a US coding plug and have it set to 100k and then swap it out when I reach it? My T will never be going back to Euro so I would like to use the measurement I am used to...it certainly helps with directions and gas mileage.

my cluster with the sticker gone from the plug
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/L1020432.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/codingplug.jpg

if you are still interested to change it to miles from km's, let me know, and I will give you a contact of a friend in Germany who is expert on this. He can do it for you.

[myles]

if you are still interested to change it to miles from km's, let me know, and I will give you a contact of a friend in Germany who is expert on this. He can do it for you.

I'm interested in knowing which parts of the coding plug contain certain data. Both of my E34s don't have the original cluster and I've managed to get the right physical cluster but the coding plug is not quite right. My 525ia has a cluster from a 525im and I need to get the auto function working on it.

Does your german friend have that sort of detail?

[shogun]

He has the possibilities to re-program your coding plug. This includes also the changing from manual transmission to automatic. This information is also stored in to the ZCS (also located on the coding plug).

There are also for sure some people in other countries which can do this.

[shogun]

Coding plug data in the 'chip of the cluster in detail:
Short version in German:
1. Gesamtwegstrecke km/miles
2.
SI-Stand
SI-Zeit
SI-Grenzwerte
3. Code-Nr. des Codiersteckers
4. Verbrauchskennlinie
5. Wegimpulszahl
6. US/ECE -Ausfuehrung CC III
7. Tank /5 Stuetzpunkte (Liter/Anzeigewerte)
8. Kuehlwasser-Temperaturanzeige/Stuetzpunkte
9. Kuehlwasseruebertemperaturgrenze
10. Grenzgeschwindigkeit (Limit)
11. Ton-Trigger-Ausfuehrung
12. Reserveraum fuer Fahrgestellnummer
13. Zylinderzahl
14. Programmanzeige ausblenden
15. Landessprache CC III
16. Gesamt-KM-Zaehler-Offset
17. Programmkonstanten

More detailed:
Generated with NCS Dummy version 0.4.0.0 beta 1 ・copyright 2010 revtor software
Output : Module Functions
Chassis : E34
Module : KMB_E32.C25

FUNCTION KEYWORD PARAMETER KEYWORD

TANK_KENNLINIE: 80_l_kunststoff, 81_l_stahl, 90_l_stahl, 91_l_stahl, 102_l_stahl, 90_l_u_zusatztank_alpina,
TEMPERATUR_KENNLINIE: kennlinie_01,kennlinie_02,kennlinie_03,
ZYLINDER_ZAHL: 4_zylinder,6_zylinder,8_zylinder,12_zylinder
EINSPRITZART: vollbank_1ti_signal,vollbank_2ti_signal
K_ZAHL: 4534_imp/km,4500_imp/km
MOTOR_ART: benziner,
K_ZAHL_KOMPL: 4534_imp/km, 4500_imp/km
AUSTAUSCHPUNKT: nicht_aktiv, aktiv
SIA_GRENZDREHZAHL: 4500_u/min
WEGSTRECKE_EINHEIT: km, mls
TACHO_SKALA_ENDWERT:240_km/h_ece/jpn ,260_km/h_ece ,260_km/h_jpn, 280_km/h_ece/jpn, 300_km/h_ece/jpn, 150_mph_ece/us, 160_mph_ece/us, 170_mph_ece/us, 180_mph_ece/us, 300_km/h_alpina, 320_km/h_alpina
DZM_SKALA_ENDWERT:7000_upm_3_imp/kwu, 8000_upm_3_imp/kwu, 7000_upm_4_imp/kwu
ANZEIGE_KVA/OEL: kva, oel_temp
TACHO_SKALA_ENDWERT_KOMPL: 240_km/h_ece/jpn, 260_km/h_ece, 260_km/h_jpn, 280_km/h_ece/jpn, 300_km/h_ece/jpn, 150_mph_ece/us, 160_mph_ece/us, 170_mph_ece/us, 180_mph_ece/us, 300_km/h_alpina, 320_km/h_alpina
SIA_GRENZE_ZEIT:335_tage, 716_tage, 0_tage
GETRIEBE_ART: keine_anzeige, gang_anzeige, gang_programm_anzeige
OELSERVICE_ANZAHL: 2_service
VENTILVERZUG_FAKTOR_A : 0
SIA_GRENZE_INSPEKTION:32.200_km, 30.000_km, 24.000_km
VENTILVERZUG_FAKTOR_B: 0
WARNUNG_GESCHW_LIMIT: 120_km/h, nicht_aktiv
STEIGUNG_EINSPRITZ_KENNLINIE: m30b30, m30b35, m70b50, s38b36, m50b20, m50b25, m60b30, m60b40, s38b39, m50b25_alpina, m30b35_alpina_biturbo,
WARNUNG_GESCHW_LIM_KOMPL: 120_km/h, nicht_aktiv
WARNUNG_UEBERTEMPERATUR: 121_grad_celsius, 125_grad_celsius, 130_grad_celsius
CHECK_CONTROL_VERSION: ece, us
gurtwarnung
japan
japan_und_gurtwarnung
SPRACHE: deutsch, englisch_us, englisch_uk, franzoesisch, italienisch, spanisch
TANK_KENNLINIE_BC: 80_l_kunststoff, 81_l_stahl, 90_l_stahl, 91_l_stahl, 102_l_stahl, 90_l_u_zusatztank_alpina
LAENDER_EINHEITEN: ece_deutsch, us, schweiz_franzoesisch, japan
km_tacho_und_englisch
ece_franzoesisch, ece_spanisch, ece_italienisch, schweiz_deutsch, ece_rl
BAUREIHE: e32, e34
KOMBI_ART: high_kombi
TANKGEBER: tauchrohrgeber
LAENDERVARIANTE: ece_deutsch,us,schweiz_franzoesisch, japan
km_tacho_und_englisch, ece_franzoesisch, ece_spanisch, ece_italienisch, schweiz_deutsch, ece_rl
ZEIT_EINHEIT: 24_stunden , 12_stunden
TEMPERATUR_EINHEIT: grad_c, grad_f
VERBRAUCH_EINHEIT: l/100km, km/l, mpg_us, mpg_uk
K_ZAHL_BC: 4534_imp/km, 4500_imp/km
CODE_NR_5: e34/e32
CODE_NR_1:e34/e32
CODE_NR_2: e34/e32
CODE_NR_3: e34/e32
CODE_NR_4: e34/e32
DATA_VALID
datensatz_gueltig
VDO_TEST
gueltig
GETRIEBE_SIA_TAGE: 1825_tage
GETRIEBE_SIA_WEG: 100.000_km
SCHWELLE_UEBERDREHZAHL: 7500_u/min, 7200_u/min
OFFSET_GESAMTWEGSTRECKE: 0_km