Autotrans advice please

[ss2115]

I have a 1993 525i Touring. It has the 5 speed auto (don't know the model number but I understand there are only two choices in the E34 anyway).
I have mentioned this problem previously but now I'm after more advice.

Since I've owned the car last January, on cold mornings it holds on to 1st and 2nd gear for the first 5 minutes of driving. Also - at any time it won't go into 5th unless exceeding 80kph.

When I took it to a auto expert for a service and told them, they said its most likely the rubber o-rings and seals around the valves becoming hardened with age and its only after the oil warmed up a bit and the rubber softened that the valves begin to move properly.
They added a rubber softener to the oil but it hasn't made any difference at all.

I mentioned this problem to a BMW service expert (not a dealer but specialises in BMW servicing and tuning) as I asked him to recommend his preferred auto specialist.
He suggested that I just live with it because no matter what, it was going to be horribly expensive to have any work done on the auto at all - mainly due to the cost of the gasket sets etc.

I was hoping that just the valve body could be dropped out and the rubber -rings and seals etc replaced.
Has anyone done this?
Can anyone offer an opinion?
Is it a job I could do myself or is there a lot of setting up involved (I am an ex-mechanic, but I have little experience on automatic transmissions).
Should I go see the auto specialist or am I wasting my time?

best regards,

[shogun]

Man, if I can do, you can do :D
Till 3 about years ago I have never touched an auto transmission, now we already have reman about 10 4HP24.
A valve body job is relatively easy, something for the saturday afternoon with coffee breaks. :)

Meanwhile I have seen so many valve bodies with a lot of dirt inside, channels blocked, solenoid valve stuck because of the dirt.

All such problems have been solved by cleaning the valve body, and using new balls, a new main gasket there in updated version etc.

I can only recommend to do that. The transmission can stay installed, it is just a bit more than a transmission oil change with removing the oil pan.
Buy a set from the U.S. if you cannot get one in OZ, the set comes usually with a detailed instruction from ZF as VBK
valve body kit. And these kits are relatively cheap.

[bmwrp8]

I have a 1993 525i Touring. It has the 5 speed auto (don't know the model number but I understand there are only two choices in the E34 anyway).
I have mentioned this problem previously but now I'm after more advice.

Since I've owned the car last January, on cold mornings it holds on to 1st and 2nd gear for the first 5 minutes of driving. Also - at any time it won't go into 5th unless exceeding 80kph.

When I took it to a auto expert for a service and told them, they said its most likely the rubber o-rings and seals around the valves becoming hardened with age and its only after the oil warmed up a bit and the rubber softened that the valves begin to move properly.
They added a rubber softener to the oil but it hasn't made any difference at all.

I mentioned this problem to a BMW service expert (not a dealer but specialises in BMW servicing and tuning) as I asked him to recommend his preferred auto specialist.
He suggested that I just live with it because no matter what, it was going to be horribly expensive to have any work done on the auto at all - mainly due to the cost of the gasket sets etc.

I was hoping that just the valve body could be dropped out and the rubber -rings and seals etc replaced.
Has anyone done this?
Can anyone offer an opinion?
Is it a job I could do myself or is there a lot of setting up involved (I am an ex-mechanic, but I have little experience on automatic transmissions).
Should I go see the auto specialist or am I wasting my time?

best regards,

i had that same problem before. When cold i only have 1st gear nothing else. when warm all is normal. I pulled down my valve body opened and cleaned it. Be careful with the valve body balls. I got confused where to put it when i finished cleaning it.

[whiskychaser]

There is a plate on the side of the tranny that gives you all the details you need. The colour of the print even tells you what ATF to use:) You do realise they are supposed to hang onto gears a little longer when they are cold? Its some sort of fuel saving measure. Mine wont go into 5th until its doing about 50mph either- its an overdrive gear. If you have the same tranny and want pics of anything I have one 'disassembled' :D

[Russell]

Not sure it applies to your car. But the trany/electronics may be designed to hold in the lower gears for several minutes until the engine has partially warmed up for emission and faster engine warm up. I know it is in my US model 52ri with a 4-speed auto. It holds in 2nd and third gear longer when cold especially when going up a hill. always has. I have driven it 100,000 miles and serviced the trany 3 times during that period.

[Interceptor]

Not sure it applies to your car. But the trany/electronics may be designed to hold in the lower gears for several minutes until the engine has partially warmed up for emission and faster engine warm up. I know it is in my US model 52ri with a 4-speed auto. It holds in 2nd and third gear longer when cold especially when going up a hill. always has. I have driven it 100,000 miles and serviced the trany 3 times during that period.

This is not very good for the engine, especially when really cold. I never rev mine above 3000 rpm until the temp exits the blue field, then gradually raise the limit until it warms up completely.

[Tiger]

Are you sure it is even a 5 speed auto transmission? 525i only has 4 speed transmission as far as I know. During cold weather it is normal for the transmission to hold the gear longer in first and second gear to rapidly heat up the cat converter and O2 sensor, but it will shift to higher gear if you briefly blipped it.

I suggest you do the normal transmission fluid and filter change first as your car still has quite a low mileage. Semi or full Synthetic ATF fluid helps alot but will not help if something is mechanically wrong with your tranny.. which I don't think will be the case.

If you had changed your fluid and filter, then you need valve body rebuild.

[Interceptor]

Are you sure it is even a 5 speed auto transmission? 525i only has 4 speed transmission as far as I know.

Later 525i's had the 5 speed auto ;)

[ss2115]

Thanks everyone.
I woke up this morning and here is many comments to read as I was hoping.

I too thought that my transmission may have been designed to hold the gears a little longer when cold to help heat the oils etc up. I have read that some car manufacturers do this and thats the exact question I asked this forum early in the year when I first noticed the problem.

However, the auto expert and the BMW expert both said no that my E34 Touring didn't have this feature. The couple of replies in this forum at that time also said no.

And blipping the throttle doesn't make it change. It reluctantly changes from 1st to 2nd once out the driveway and then holds second almost no matter what. The only thing that will make it change is excessive speed and then it feels like its being forced rather than a "natural" change.

[funnily enough, I don't mind it actually doing it when leaving home, because out of my driveway I drive up a street on a short hill and it stays in 1st, and then I go down the street which is a long downward slope and staying in second gives me engine braking. But on the other side of the coin, when I leave work at the end of the day, I'm driving on a flat road past a major shopping centre and the engine is reving in 2nd gear until the road speed forces the change. (or else I deliberatly drive slowly)].

The Auto chap told me its a five speed. He seemed to know instantly by looking at the shifter - 2,3,4 and D.

Even when hot, it won't change into 5th until the speedo hits 80kph, and then it feels like a forced change again - ie: it doesn't have that smooth natural gearchange but seems to feel like the road speed is making it change. And it downchanges back to 4th as soon as the speed drops below 80kph as well - it doesn't coast in 5th to lower speeds at all. Drop below 80kph and click, back to 4th again. Speed to 82kph and its reluctantly into 5th.

It had a auto service earlier in the year when I noticed the problem and they also put in the rubber softener at that time with the new oil and filter but it didn't make any difference at all.
The BMW auto trans expert I was referred to a few days ago said to try another oil change and more additive, but not any more than that because if the rubber seals get too soft they will roll off the pistons. He said if the problem isn't fixed then to live with it if it was his car.
He's quoting between Au$3,000 - $4,000 for the overhaul which isn't as bad as I thought, but still not money I want to spend if I don't have to.
He was reluctant to just do the valve body clean only. He said that if they went inside to do that, they'd rather do a complete job.
Fair enough I guess.

So I have the choice's to live with it, to try to clean the valve body myself, or to get the complete overhaul.
Opinions?

[Interceptor]

So I have the choice's to live with it, to try to clean the valve body myself, or to get the complete overhaul.
Opinions?

I would do the valve body myself, and if that doesn't work, I'd live with it or do a manual swap :D

[Tiger]

From what you told me here... Yes, you got a 5 speed auto. With more details, yes, your transmission got mechanical problem. And I believe all you need is valve body rebuild... job like this cost about $600 or so. I bought my rebuilt valve body for $400 exchanged and swapped it out myself.

That's the thing... the mechanic said if I am going to do the valve body, I might as well do the whole thing... it means if he did just the valve body and the car ran fine, he can charge you $4000 for $600 job and you don't know the difference.

[ss2115]

From what you told me here... Yes, you got a 5 speed auto. With more details, yes, your transmission got mechanical problem. And I believe all you need is valve body rebuild... job like this cost about $600 or so. I bought my rebuilt valve body for $400 exchanged and swapped it out myself.

That's the thing... the mechanic said if I am going to do the valve body, I might as well do the whole thing... it means if he did just the valve body and the car ran fine, he can charge you $4000 for $600 job and you don't know the difference.

Now there's a great idea! An exchange valve body.
Did yours come with the gaskets you needed to put the new one in?

Is there all that much to reconditioning a valve body? A few people on this forum seem to suggest there are only a couple of check balls to worry about besides a good cleanout - or is there more?

I wonder if I can get the exchange and gaskets here in Australia.
Anyone?

[whiskychaser]

Before you shell out cash maybe, I'd suggest you get any fault codes read. You might find this of interest. Its from the ZF 5HP18 repair manual:
Shift speed incorrect: temperature sensor malfunctioning: replace the wiring harness
Generally poor shift quality: defective temperature sensor: replace the wiring harness
They mean the harness inside the tranny. The temp sensor is just a probe at the end of one of the wires and it sits in the valve body.
You can check this at the EGS socket (as well as the MVs and speed sensors). The resistances should be:
820ohms at 0degC
962ohms at 20degC
1118ohms at 40degC
1289ohms at 60degC
For comparison, on a flat road with a hot engine and with the tranny in 'E' mode, mine will change up a gear pretty consistently at 2000-2200 rpm.

[Russell]

This is not very good for the engine, especially when really cold. I never rev mine above 3000 rpm until the temp exits the blue field, then gradually raise the limit until it warms up completely.

Most/all of my cold starts are in city traffic so rpms are always below 3,000 for the first few minutes. Not sure what the trany would do if i went to higher speeds like a freeway with a cold start.

[Russell]

Later 525i's had the 5 speed auto ;)

US e34s cars only had 4 speed autos. Other markets had 5 speed auto tranys

[genphreak]

After 200,000 kms the valve body on most of them needs a clean. I think it depends how often the fluid has been changed.

Pays to inspect everything and refresh the fluid too, so best thing is to pull it carefully with the right tools and follow the advice and document here so advice can be easily provided. Getting the fluid level is tough, esp if you have no dipstick. I suggest having a handheld laserbeam thermometer if your personal garage has no Modic as temp is absolutely critical with readings and fluid levels.

Also, if you get into real trouble, you can take it to ZF in Arndell Park. They charge something like $4000 for a factory reman and fit, and are the best people to do a ZF in Aus I suspect. They do all the buses and trucks, as well as the euros from the dealers. I reckon $4000 is worth it on an e34 Touring, even if it is hald the value of the car. They drive like new afterwards adn are more economical.

Certtainly pays to have a pit like Shogun's team- or a hoist like my mate. Trouble is only getting time to do projects like this on it. :)

Also, budget for a new O2 sensor whilst you are in there (about USD $50). Parts for the trans are cheap form the US- ie

http://www.europeantransmissions.com/europeanhomepage.html
http://www.oo00oo.com/index2.html
and of course, check/email http://www.bmaprts.com

[shogun]

The harness is also in/around the valve body, as well as the balls and the small orifices and the solenoid valves.

That guy is wrong there to say if they make the valve body they can also do immy the complete transmission.

To make the valve body the trans stays where it is, just a bit more than a complete trans fluid change with changing the gasket. When the pan is gone, you have it all in front of you and can easily remove it and then you can go into the kitchen when your wife is not and home and do it all indoors. ;-)

Most of the time we usually need to get the old main gasket out which is in between the plates. Needs a lot of muscle power. Rest is just like a chess game and you position the new balls and orifices back, clean beforehand with compressed air and brake cleaner all the channels, clean the solenoids valves, test them, check for broken springs and so on.

Here we have made 2 youtube videos, all shown there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXzhlDV5HoM&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRN1jwEkydg&feature=channel_page

that is all, easy

[Tiger]

You really do need to find a guy who has the tool to test your tranny as Whiskychaser said... if not, then you need to find a ZF authorized center guy to sell you a rebuilt valvebody and parts.

Shogun is very well respected and very knowledgeble so believe what he said.

When I got my valve body... it came with new wire harness and new speed sensor. Speed sensor do go bad on these tranny and cause the problem you are describing... so in the end, it maybe just the speed sensor that need to be replaced but if you want the tranny to last twice as long, do the valve body too... like other said, they do need cleaning if the fluid has not been changed often enough...

That stupid 'lifetime' fluid really kills alot of tranny... and it is mostly on the valvebody... thanks goodness.

[bmwrp8]

i would do the valve body myself, and if that doesn't work, i'd live with it or do a manual swap :d

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