Seafoam in oil for how many minutes or miles?

[RobPatt]

Hi,
I'm considering adding a can of seafoam to the oil before an oil change.

However, my gut says:
- NO, the engine is clean, cams looked pristine at 150K miles.
- NO, you already use Mobile 1 syn 0w40 every 5K miles...
- WHY add "gas" in the oil and jack up & thin out lubrication of bearings, etc

So, while the can says you CAN do it... I'm leaning towards NOT doing it.

Thought I'd ask you all..
Cheers,
Rob.

[genphreak]

eugh... surely Seafoam is not what nature intended for a decent motor.

Since when did sludge buildup hurt anything anyway? And let me get this right... you don't have any sludge?

[bubba966]

eugh... surely Seafoam is not what nature intended for a decent motor.

Since when did sludge buildup hurt anything anyway? And let me get this right... you don't have any sludge?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281659

Apparently that one is still ok, though it's not known yet if any oil passages are going to be blocked from the sludge.

And that was discussed on my local BMWCCA forum where one of the members works at a Honda dealership. They've got a 4-cyl Honda that only had 72k miles come in with the CEL on and it'd died. Turns out that engine sludge had clogged up the VTEC solenoid (VTEC is basically Honda's version of VANOS) and had been stretching the timing chain. It got so bad that it bent the valves and killed the engine.

Oil sludge isn't always harmless. Especially in engines designed in the last 20-30 or so years that have tighter tolerances than older design engines did. Takes much less crap to clog up a newer engine...

[genphreak]

OMG, great link.

Looks like 'Lifetime fill' near the end of its lifetime!

I guess every mechanic has seen it this bad at some point or another, but I don't know of a Bimmer that has been let go to this point. Maybe an e46 is just a 'commodity item' though! Euuueeewwww! Some have a lot get in the way for too long. That's really sad to see on such a nice motor.

I think I'd be planning to replace the engine as they are not expensive and it'd cost a bit to clean out as it is. The cleaning will only cause something else to dislodge and it could block somethign important as it does in the VANOS unit. Th engine however survives in that state because the passages are still supplying oil to the journals. Should the filter break or flow reduce in the oiling system to the point that something clogs, journals can starve and your cam lobes go or a bearing somewhere fails. From that point of view, using a cleaner is always risky. In this bad a situation it actually gets very likely. I wouldn't do a radical clean initially, a calmer, sustained approach seems more sensible, ie replace oil every 1000 miles until it improves, documenting the filter each time and popping the cover and photographing/cleaning there too. Then consider a cleaner. The cleaners simply dislodge things too actively and it can get forced through the filter element unless you have the dislodgement rate under control. Anyhow, sludge only congregates in the unimportant/low turbulence/pressure zones first, so it is not worth worrying about really. If you have clean oil and clean filters at each change, the engine will be happy (save for VANOS units) and probably reliable despite a kg of sludge under the cover :)

However when an engine is obviously not sludged, it isn't worth risking the wear, let alone anything one can't see or even imagine dislodging, by thinning the oil. If it was to be done, I'd expect it should be done in one go, ie not make the engine go through multiple warm up cycles, as this is where the most wear occurs. Important oil passages are always the last things to clog up anyway, as they only get filtered oil.

As the evidence will end up through the filter, one can always tell how bad it is after a few changes.

[ryan roopnarine]

500 miles before an oil change would be ok, if you wanted to try it. IHMO, the stuff dissolves too quick to hurt too bad, yes, it will make the oil black, but it won't affect your oil level for very long (goes away).

[genphreak]

With engines, if the oil comes out and you can get the right amount back in, she'll keep running to the next change.

It's a bit like an irrestistable whore, under the covers, what you can see never hurts. It is what you can't see is far less desirable.

[smcgowan]

Ok time

Instead of pouring this stuff into the motor... BTW which we did on the wife's car when it hit 100k both in the oil and into the gas and a little by way of the intake.... Did'nt seem to help or hurt... .

When the car hit 200K and was a quart low and due for oil change... I just added a quart of Trans fuild to the oil.. drove around normally for a week and then did a complete oil change with filter.

The car still runs great and gets the same gas mileage as it did when we got the car at 77k. and runs just as smooth. Now at 221K still running fine. Only loosing a quart every 5k due to whatever..

The biggest suprise that it's still on the same Auto tranny... Did filter and trans oil service about 150k do to hearing what sounded like a squirrel in the trans...



Any thoughts of Trans oil in as the detergent of choice?

[Rick L]

Here's another. BMW 4.4 V8.

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=512706

Below is difference between BMW recommended 15k and 7500 miles.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=287715&highlight=sludge+oil



http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1281659

Apparently that one is still ok, though it's not known yet if any oil passages are going to be blocked from the sludge.

And that was discussed on my local BMWCCA forum where one of the members works at a Honda dealership. They've got a 4-cyl Honda that only had 72k miles come in with the CEL on and it'd died. Turns out that engine sludge had clogged up the VTEC solenoid (VTEC is basically Honda's version of VANOS) and had been stretching the timing chain. It got so bad that it bent the valves and killed the engine.

Oil sludge isn't always harmless. Especially in engines designed in the last 20-30 or so years that have tighter tolerances than older design engines did. Takes much less crap to clog up a newer engine...

[Bill R.]

Listen to your gut, its telling you the right thing. If the top end of your motor is clean then don't even think about running seafoam/solvent/lacquerthinner through your motor.


Some of the other brands of engine cleaner tell you to run it in the oil for 10 minutes or so idling just before an oil change, since you are diluting your oil when you add this you want to minimize the bearing damage that is going to occur.


I've seen sludging damage occur on a number of cars that i've worked on. Toyota v6's when sludging would stick the rings and allow blowby to occur. They would also sludge up the tops of the heads and valve covers enought that oil drain back to the oil pan was drastically slowed causing oil starvation to the bearings in some cases.


I had one customer that i posted photos here a couple of years ago who had a honda civic that he didn't change the oil at all for the first 50 thousand miles. Trashed the motor at less than 60k , stupid lesson for him to learn.

Most of the bmw's that i see sludging are victims of the newer car service maintenance schedule, with the change indicator allowing customers to drive 12 to 15k miles before they change the oil, I usually see sludging on the 528 e39's that have followed this schedule ,up around 60k miles the head and valve cover will have a substantial amount of sludging.

If there is a problem with the crankcase ventilation system you'll see sludging rapidly also, or a broken thermostat allowing the engine to run too cold will also cause sludging.

One of the only other cases i've seen where engine damage occurred was a dodge 318 that sludged repeatedly and would clog up the oil pickup screen starving the engine for oil , the lifters would start to rattle and i'd pull the pan and his pickup screen would be completely full of sludge inhibiting the flow of oil.






Hi,
I'm considering adding a can of seafoam to the oil before an oil change.

However, my gut says:
- NO, the engine is clean, cams looked pristine at 150K miles.
- NO, you already use Mobile 1 syn 0w40 every 5K miles...
- WHY add "gas" in the oil and jack up & thin out lubrication of bearings, etc

So, while the can says you CAN do it... I'm leaning towards NOT doing it.

Thought I'd ask you all..
Cheers,
Rob.