Parked next to a new 5 series the other day...oh the horror...

[Robert K]

Just happened to park my 1991 535i next to a brand spanking new 530i the other day. Man, talk about a radical styling departure. With the E39, you could see the lineage. And frankly, I've always liked the E39. I don't know that I liked it more than the E34's, but I liked its shape for different reasons. Driving either one would be just fine to me. But I really have no desire to have one of the new 5 series. To be honest, it is just not that visually appealing, which is one aspect that really drew me to the E34 and still warms my heart today. I still love looking at the E34's lines as I approach it in a parking lot. The new 5 series...I swear, the thing looks like a Honda or something. They just really threw the 5 series styling cues right out the window. In my opinion, they really messed up.

One of the important aspects of luxury car marques is the styling continuity they maintain through the years. Some of my favorites in this areas are Rolls Royce, Aston Martin and Jaguar. If you see one of these cars, you have no trouble identifying the marque. They make only subtle changes in their styling that freshens things up without leaving too much behind. I mean has anyone seen the new Aston Martin DB9? That is one beautiful car. The body on that car is graceful, elegant and muscular all at once. If they didn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd have one in a second. BMW seems to have really lost the way regarding styling in my opinion, especially in the new 5 and 7 series cars. The new 6 shows some promise. I sure hope they don't screw up the 3 series redesign.

Anyway, I just wanted to let off a little steam about the new 5. It really saddened me to realize that it's shape just didn't appeal to me at all. For me, a car has to have decent power, good handling and good brakes. But if it's not wrapped up in an appealing body...forget it!

Grace and peace,

Robert K
1991 535i

[ryan roopnarine]

was driving das e34 to niagra falls with us (in Ontario), he commented that he doesn't like the newest bmws because they look like hondas. he is not a car guy, and drives a 2k dodge caravan. I had assumed that one would have to be extremely perceptive for a "normal" person to notice this, but it has to be extremely blatant for anybody and everybody to make that distinction. also....anybody here ever confuse the new acura tl for the bmw 5 series, particularly from the side???? I've done it about three times now, its embarassing.

[Derek A.]

I was on the freeway yesterday and saw what I thought was a new 5 looming in my mirror. It took me a number of glances to really determine if it was a BMW or not. I originally thought it was a Grand Am. I am in BMW messca here in Oakland County and have seen very few of the new 5 series cars, has anyone see reports on how they are selling ?

[rickm]

BMW Group Sales Up 8.0 Percent For Strongest Sales Month on Record

The BMW Group (BMW and MINI brands combined) reported an increase of 8 percent in May sales for 27,787 vehicles compared to the 25,765 vehicles sold that month in 2003, making it the best sales month ever for the BMW Group. The BMW Group also reported year-to-date sales of 115,737 vehicles, an increase of 3 percent from 112,278 sold in the first five months of 2003.
May Sales for BMW North America were as follows:

BMW Brand Sales:
BMW of North America, LLC reported its strongest month ever, with sales of 24,432 automobiles and Sports Activity Vehicles, an increase of 9 percent compared to the 22,455 vehicles reported last May.

Year-to-date, sales of BMW brand vehicles were up 3.2 percent with sales of 100,821 vehicles compared to 97,664 vehicles sold in first five months of 2003.

Automobile Sales:
BMW's automobile sales dipped slightly in May, to 19,385 versus 19,610 in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date sales were down 4.7 percent, to 79,896 automobiles compared to 83,793 in the same period a year ago.

Sports Activity Vehicle Sales:

Strong sales of BMW's new X3 Sports Activity Vehicle have contributed to the record sales month. Total May SAV sales were 5,047, compared to 2,845 vehicles sold in May 2003, a jump of 77 percent. Year-to-date, sales of BMW's SAV models are up 51 percent, to 20,925 vehicles compared to 13,871 for the same period in 2003.


Z4 Roadster:
Total Z4 and Z3 May sales dropped to 1,669 compared with 1,940 sold in May 2003. The new Z4 roadster has shown consistent sales since its debut in 2003, reflecting customers' delight with the all-new BMW Z4. Year-to-date sales for the BMW roadster totaled 5,688 compared to 8,237 last year for the same time period.

BMW's new premium two-seater features a fresh new design and all-new chassis. The all-new BMW Z4 roadster marks another highlight in BMW's new design strategy, and sets new standards for premium roadsters.

MINI Brand, MINI Automobiles:
Demand for MINI brand automobiles continues to be strong. Sales of MINI automobiles in May are up 1.4 percent with sales of 3,355 over the 3,310 in 2003. Year-to-date, sales were up 2.1 percent, with 14,916 cars compared to 14,614 sold a year ago.

The Spartanburg County BMW plant, where the X5 SUV and Z4 roadster are manufactured exclusively for worldwide distribution, is now recycling methane gas as an energy source. The recycled methane gas, drawn from the Palmetto Landfill near Spartanburg, will supply BMW with 25 percent of its energy needs. "This is a win-win for everyone. It avoids the need to burn methane. It yields significant amounts of clean energy. And, by avoiding 55,000 tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year, it results in cleaner, healthier air for everyone to breathe," said Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Christine Todd Whitman. Currently, employment at the Spartanburg County plant totals approximately 4,200.

BMW of North America, LLC has been present in the United States since 1975. ROLLS-ROYCE Motor Cars NA, LLC began distributing vehicles in 2003. The BMW Group in the United States has grown to include marketing, sales, and financial service organizations for the BMW brand, the MINI brand, and the ROLLS-ROYCE brand of Motor Cars; DesignworksUSA, an industrial design firm in California; a technology office in Silicon Valley and various other operations throughout the country. BMW Manufacturing Co., LLC in South Carolina is part of BMW Group's global manufacturing network and is the exclusive manufacturing plant for all Z4 roadster and X5 Sports Activity Vehicles. The BMW Group sales organization is represented in the U.S. through networks of 340 BMW passenger car centers, 327 BMW Sports Activity Vehicle centers, 148 BMW motorcycle retailers, 76 MINI passenger car dealers, and 25 ROLLS-ROYCE Motor Car dealers. BMW (US) Holding Corp., the BMW Group's sales headquarters for North, Central and South America, is located in Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey.

[George M]

Completely agree Robert and well said....I rank the new 5 at the bottom of my long list of cars I would consider for that amount of money. I personally think the car isn't just benign from a styling standpoint but flat ugly...particularly with the baseline wheel package.
It is not only lack of lineage as you say which in of itself is not a show stopper for me but the incongruous intersection of the body lines and shapes that make up the car are awful. I simply hate the design of the car and put it in the same category as the E-65. I also saw a new 6-series coupe on the road and would rate it only fractionally better looking but still an embarrassment to the BMW marquee.
George

[Unregistered]

Rickm,

That's a wealth of information about the BIMMER but what about the sales of the new 5 series?



BMW Group Sales Up 8.0 Percent For Strongest Sales Month on Record

The BMW Group (BMW and MINI brands combined) reported an increase of 8 percent in May sales for 27,787 vehicles compared to the 25,765 vehicles sold that month in 2003, making it the best sales month ever for the BMW Group. The BMW Group also reported year-to-date sales of 115,737 vehicles, an increase of 3 percent from 112,278 sold in the first five months of 2003.
May Sales for BMW North America were as follows:

BMW Brand Sales:
BMW of North America, LLC reported its strongest month ever, with sales of 24,432 automobiles and Sports Activity Vehicles, an increase of 9 percent compared to the 22,455 vehicles reported last May.

Year-to-date, sales of BMW brand vehicles were up 3.2 percent with sales of 100,821 vehicles compared to 97,664 vehicles sold in first five months of 2003.

Automobile Sales:
BMW's automobile sales dipped slightly in May, to 19,385 versus 19,610 in the same month a year ago. Year-to-date sales were down 4.7 percent, to 79,896 automobiles compared to 83,793 in the same period a year ago.

Sports Activity Vehicle Sales:

Strong sales of BMW's new X3 Sports Activity Vehicle have contributed to the record sales month. Total May SAV sales were 5,047, compared to 2,845 vehicles sold in May 2003, a jump of 77 percent. Year-to-date, sales of BMW's SAV models are up 51 percent, to 20,925 vehicles compared to 13,871 for the same period in 2003.


Z4 Roadster:
Total Z4 and Z3 May sales dropped to 1,669 compared with 1,940 sold in May 2003. The new Z4 roadster has shown consistent sales since its debut in 2003, reflecting customers' delight with the all-new BMW Z4. Year-to-date sales for the BMW roadster totaled 5,688 compared to 8,237 last year for the same time period.

BMW's new premium two-seater features a fresh new design and all-new chassis. The all-new BMW Z4 roadster marks another highlight in BMW's new design strategy, and sets new standards for premium roadsters.

MINI Brand, MINI Automobiles:
Demand for MINI brand automobiles continues to be strong. Sales of MINI automobiles in May are up 1.4 percent with sales of 3,355 over the 3,310 in 2003. Year-to-date, sales were up 2.1 percent, with 14,916 cars compared to 14,614 sold a year ago.

The Spartanburg County BMW plant, where the X5 SUV and Z4 roadster are manufactured exclusively for worldwide distribution, is now recycling methane gas as an energy source. The recycled methane gas, drawn from the Palmetto Landfill near Spartanburg, will supply BMW with 25 percent of its energy needs. "This is a win-win for everyone. It avoids the need to burn methane. It yields significant amounts of clean energy. And, by avoiding 55,000 tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year, it results in cleaner, healthier air for everyone to breathe," said Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Christine Todd Whitman. Currently, employment at the Spartanburg County plant totals approximately 4,200.

BMW of North America, LLC has been present in the United States since 1975. ROLLS-ROYCE Motor Cars NA, LLC began distributing vehicles in 2003. The BMW Group in the United States has grown to include marketing, sales, and financial service organizations for the BMW brand, the MINI brand, and the ROLLS-ROYCE brand of Motor Cars; DesignworksUSA, an industrial design firm in California; a technology office in Silicon Valley and various other operations throughout the country. BMW Manufacturing Co., LLC in South Carolina is part of BMW Group's global manufacturing network and is the exclusive manufacturing plant for all Z4 roadster and X5 Sports Activity Vehicles. The BMW Group sales organization is represented in the U.S. through networks of 340 BMW passenger car centers, 327 BMW Sports Activity Vehicle centers, 148 BMW motorcycle retailers, 76 MINI passenger car dealers, and 25 ROLLS-ROYCE Motor Car dealers. BMW (US) Holding Corp., the BMW Group's sales headquarters for North, Central and South America, is located in Woodcliff Lake, New Jersey.

[gale]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bangle's designs any more than anyone else, but to BMW's credit, the new 5 is a great ride. The Susan G. Komen "Drive for the Cure" fleet was in town today so I was able to drive just about everything in BMW's stable -- from Z's & X's to 3's, 5's, & 7's. I didn't get a chance to drive the 645i convertible but they say it was on par with the 545i 6-spd, which I did drive. It is great performing car, enough to convince me to swear off of 3's forever, save the M's. The brakes are fantastic, gobs of mid-range torque, & very solid in the turns. The progressive steering (or whatever they call it) is a handy feature. If a body shop could get rid of the Dame Edna front turn signals & if there were an I-Drive "delete" option, I wouldn't mind having one.

But this year, after the day was done, my "old & busted joint" felt pretty darn good to drive home in. The upgrades I have done to it in the past year have kept me quite content with it. I finally have the suspension just about where I like it, the 5-spd conversion was a shot in the arm, sticky 50 series 16" wheels/tires, & Mark's -179 chip make it an all-around pleasant ride -- I think I'll keep it!

[George M]

Don,
Probing what you wrote a bit about swearing off of 3 series forever...was there that much of a gulf between the newer 3-series...M3's excepting...and the new 5 series?
I know many have transistioned to the E-46 and like them. Lastly, pretty tall praise after driving all that new BMW iron and you get back into your E-32, although modded, and it still feels like a nice pair of worn in shoes....gucci loafers of course :-)
George

[SC David]

One thing that I have always loved about seeing BMW's on the road is how they are driven. Before buying my E34, I remember being behind a subtly modded red 525 entering the freeway and watching it take off to 80mph with perfect grace. Multiple other times I had been behind M3's and 750's being driven enthusiastically, and it made me want one so badly. In my opinion, half of the appeal of BMW's is how they can be pushed beyond the limits of most other cars, but look like they are being driven at normal speeds. This is why the new E60 appeals to me.

Two days ago I was driving down one of my city's main boulevards when I could see up in the distance what looked like a new 5 series at a stoplight, ready to turn right to go the same direction I was already headed. It made its turn and meanwhile I was nearly one block behind and wanting to get a better glance, so I upped my speed a little to get a closer look. Had it been any other car, I would have been on its tail within 10 seconds. However, this driver took his right turn against the red, and rocketed to 5 over the 50mph speed limit in what must have been about 5 seconds. The manner in which he reached these speeds would have been completely unnoticeable, because there was no tire spin, there was no smoke coming from the exhaust...the car hardly looked like it was trying. The only reason I noticed was because I was trying to see what engine was behind all of this.

I caught up at the next red light to see a 545i badge hiding between the glare of the two snarling taillights. Simply beautiful.

[BigD]

AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHHAHA, "Dame Edna front turn signals" LMFAO, oh ****, Gale you just made my day


Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bangle's designs any more than anyone else, but to BMW's credit, the new 5 is a great ride. The Susan G. Komen "Drive for the Cure" fleet was in town today so I was able to drive just about everything in BMW's stable -- from Z's & X's to 3's, 5's, & 7's. I didn't get a chance to drive the 645i convertible but they say it was on par with the 545i 6-spd, which I did drive. It is great performing car, enough to convince me to swear off of 3's forever, save the M's. The brakes are fantastic, gobs of mid-range torque, & very solid in the turns. The progressive steering (or whatever they call it) is a handy feature. If a body shop could get rid of the Dame Edna front turn signals & if there were an I-Drive "delete" option, I wouldn't mind having one.

But this year, after the day was done, my "old & busted joint" felt pretty darn good to drive home in. The upgrades I have done to it in the past year have kept me quite content with it. I finally have the suspension just about where I like it, the 5-spd conversion was a shot in the arm, sticky 50 series 16" wheels/tires, & Mark's -179 chip make it an all-around pleasant ride -- I think I'll keep it!

[gale]

George, I like 3's, but I prefer my "comfortable old pair of e32 size 7 modified shoes" given the choice. I was much impressed with the 3's last year, felt more like a 5, but this year they seemed a bit soft, but nothing a set of performance tires & larger sways couldn't remedy & an easy DIY at that for not much coin. The 330i was twitchy in high speeed turns & that makes me nervous. There was one with the sport suspension option, basically an M3 without the M's fine engine. I didn't get a chance to drive it but others said it was alot of fun. Too bad so many of the Komen cars have slushboxes. The smallblock 6 cyl's really need a manual trans to do them justice. There was a 530i with SMG but I had the choice between it & the 545i 6-spd & obviously chose the latter. One thing about the 545i, it could stand to use a higher diff ratio & the stock long throw shifter has got to go. Don't know if the Z3 shifter would transplant into it.

I read the threads of your search for an upscale automatic commuter car and would have voted for the Jetta TDI before reading Bill's take on them. Too bad VW has such a give-a-sh*t attitude toward quality & customer satisfaction. I know of a VW service manager who drives an M3 as his personal car, & off the record, he wouldn't wish a VW product upon anyone.

I don't know what to recommend for your quest for a commuter car, given that it must "fit in" at a Detroit autoworks parking lot. My wife drives an '00 Landcruiser & we too kick around the prospect of getting something that gets better mileage, but everytime I crunch the numbers on it, the capital outlay, insurance, depreciation, maintenance on a 3rd vehicle, etc., far exceed the differential cost in gasoline, so cheaper just to have 2 & pony up to the pump more frequently. We need it to tow the boat & sure puts my mind at ease to have her & the kids in a larger vehicle, & other than fluid changes & new brake pads once in a while, I never have to turn a wrench on it.

If you were to thumb your nose at the naysayers & go Japanese, guess I would go the Honda or Toyota route, but check parts prices on them carefully. Item for item, BMW parts are usually much cheaper. A friend at work replaced his Porsche 914 with a Mazda Protege 5 & it is a real hoot to drive. He bought it with a manual trans & despite the smallish engine, the thing really scoots.

Don

[George M]

Thanks for your input Don...as usual very thoughtful and always insightful. May just hang in with my Saturn for the commute.. The thing seems bullet proof...has plenty of go with the twin cam and 5 speed and even in the worse possible traffic I just averaged 30 mpg which I just can't believe given how I drive it...routinely get the revs up around 4k and am stuck all the time in traffic jams...remarkable. I am long legged so this weekend I removed the driver seat and spaced up the front of the seat off the brackets based upon measurements I took off my E-32 seat when adjusted just right.
Not easy to dislodge those spot welded brackets to the seat rails. What a difference...now plenty of thigh support and the seat feels more like a bucket....adjustable lumber and ample side bolsters on the SC2 seat. So will see how it goes. Glad to see you still love your E-32 like I do. Nothing on the planet handles as well as these cars for their size. And with the seats and all the creature comforts including the performance they are very hard to beat even fourteen years later...remarkable.
Next project for the E-32 is I am going to install an original BMW Business CD radio in my E-32 from a Z3 which integrates beautifully in my quest to keep all BMW parts on the car.
George

[andyman32]

Well, as long as everyone else is taking turns on the soapbox about the new 5...

It is plain ugly. It's an overwrought design with no grace or elegance at all. BMW jumped on the bandwagon making SUVs, and now they've jumped on the chic-ugly trend, the same wagon that Cadillac, the Chrysler 300, Dodge Magnum, and pretty much every SUV out there rides. Fine if they think they're going to make a buck on it but it seems to me like they sold out. Instead of doing something exceptional they did something intentionally hideous. Maybe they can tease back the yuppie crowd who would buy a BMW without knowing how many cylinders it has (or, for that matter, what cylinders ARE)... but for folks like us who really are interested in the super-duper mechanical quality and leading-edge elegance of design BMW has always put into its cars, this is a total bust.

I agree with Robert K, I like the E39 a lot, maybe not as much overall as the E34, but it has its strong points, and you can see the tradition of the design in it.

Now, the new one, that tradition is OVER. I read a "first-look" review of the E60 before it was released. The reviewer started by describing the headlights as "amorphic, amoeba-shaped". Well, that's a pretty apt description for the whole car. A bunch of incongruous, clumsy visual elements mashed together into a Mr. Potatohead-like design.

*steps down off soapbox*

Now, that having been said, if someone were to give me an E60, I probably wouldn't complain. It just won't ever be on my dime - not new, and not 10 years old and $8k. Not ever. Must-keep-E39-alive-forever!!!

[winfred]

i like the looks of the e39 but that's about it, i've not gotten my hands dirty on a new 5 yet but i am sure i won't be impressed

[winfred]

like bmw or anybody else gives a **** what i think


i like the looks of the e39 but that's about it, i've not gotten my hands dirty on a new 5 yet but i am sure i won't be impressed

[Sweetwater]

And I think BMW has moved on. It shows in the new designs of their cars and their motorcycles. The proper view of all this IMO is to admit that the folks in marketing have asked for a "new" look that will appeal to the "next" generation of buyers.

And so it goes, that's the reason we don't care for the cars, but sales have improved and the newer buyers will purchase several generations of autos during their consumer years.

[winfred]

ill take one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=49977&item=2482100030&rd=1


And I think BMW has moved on. It shows in the new designs of their cars and their motorcycles.

[warton]

Just happened to park my 1991 535i next to a brand spanking new 530i the other day. Man, talk about a radical styling departure. With the E39, you could see the lineage. And frankly, I've always liked the E39. I don't know that I liked it more than the E34's, but I liked its shape for different reasons. Driving either one would be just fine to me. But I really have no desire to have one of the new 5 series. To be honest, it is just not that visually appealing, which is one aspect that really drew me to the E34 and still warms my heart today. I still love looking at the E34's lines as I approach it in a parking lot. The new 5 series...I swear, the thing looks like a Honda or something. They just really threw the 5 series styling cues right out the window. In my opinion, they really messed up.

One of the important aspects of luxury car marques is the styling continuity they maintain through the years. Some of my favorites in this areas are Rolls Royce, Aston Martin and Jaguar. If you see one of these cars, you have no trouble identifying the marque. They make only subtle changes in their styling that freshens things up without leaving too much behind. I mean has anyone seen the new Aston Martin DB9? That is one beautiful car. The body on that car is graceful, elegant and muscular all at once. If they didn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd have one in a second. BMW seems to have really lost the way regarding styling in my opinion, especially in the new 5 and 7 series cars. The new 6 shows some promise. I sure hope they don't screw up the 3 series redesign.

Anyway, I just wanted to let off a little steam about the new 5. It really saddened me to realize that it's shape just didn't appeal to me at all. For me, a car has to have decent power, good handling and good brakes. But if it's not wrapped up in an appealing body...forget it!

Grace and peace,

Robert K
1991 535i

I've written more than once about how much I like the e34 styling (though it has it's problems). I even wrote how I could never "get into" the e39 styling, which while nice up front is way too vanilla from any other angle (save the touring, which I think has very nice proportions and looks excellent with 17" cross-spoke wheels).

Okay, so here goes (I should probably log out for this ;-): I like the e60. There, I said it. It is not photogenic, and it's nothing exciting to look at sitting in a parking lot - the tail looks awkward and the front too "rice burner" - but moving on the road IMO it looks very good. Sophisticated, aggressive, powerful, graceful. You can't capture that in a photograph, or looking at it in the showroom. It's far less conservative than it's predecessor, much like the e34 was in it's day. I really don't like the headlights; I think the body panels are too large from the side; and some of the stock wheels are fugly. But somehow it all comes together on the road. Driving, the 545i is compelling, and I think it looks excellent.

Sure, it's no Jag - and it sure as hell isn't in Aston Martin's league. But it's got more poise than just about any other of its counterparts to my eye.

Bombs away...

Peter

[dca]

Yes I completely agree with you, first I saw one 7 in dubai 3 years ago, then I hate the design. where is that sleek design. i dont know. I will buy a mercedes next time.

[callen]

Robert:

Same thing happened to me.....drove wifes Black 530i cleaned her day before....went to mall parked in booney's....came back and there was a black new 525i.....really bad.....I've really been trying to be objective but it's not working. It does look like a new accord.....when I ask co-workers and friends what they think about that car...pointing to a new 5, I get the same remark.....ugly. I can almost justify and afford a new 5 and they bring out this??????

Callen 91 535i 94 530i 5spds.

[Unregistered]

From Fred Meloan, BMW Sale Consultant, it looks like the new E60 5 and especially the E65 7 series aren't selling very well:

http://myfilelocker.comcast.net/fdmeloan/BMW_Group_Sales.pdf

[Cacatfish]

5 series sales are up from last year according to the chart, though 7 series are way down! Interesting note that I read in an interview with one of the BMW guys is that the new 7 is the best-selling 7 ever as far as global sales. Strangely, the US sales defecit has been offset by strong sales in, of all places, China....the new, up and coming, automotive market place!

[Cacatfish]

Im with you there 100%. I wasnt too keen on the new fivers either, and then I passed one going the other direction on my local two-lane the other day, and that thing had great road presence! It just looked purposeful and like it was moving 40mph faster than it was. Suddenly, the E34 and even the E39 just looked dated.
Sitting in a parking lot, the car does not have that effect on me.

[Ian W]

The E60 like the other Bangle designs is cutting edge design , it will take longer to apppeal to the eye , but will look fresher for much longer.

The present range of Jags are a kop out in terms of design , retro copies of classic designs but hardly push car design forward as the originals did, they also look dated already.

Mercs are now as dull as dishwater and also poorly made, selling only on their brand reputation, which is rapidly dissappearing.

Audis are ok if your not really intrested in cars , but think you should have something German.

Saabs are for dentists.

The E60 will during its life, outsell its competitors because its a better car.

[eunique]

WHICH ONE IS THE E-65???
what series BMW and what years?
just trying to get the picture in my head.

[Elekta]

If Bangle had stayed consistent with the blinker treatment among models....the 5'er would look much better with non-angled blinkers. The 7er's eyebrow in front has really grown on me, and now I like the 6'er's front even more, and it just makes me hate the 5'er in front and back. I followed a 545i down a few floors into my garage, and I don't even like the tail lights, looking like cheese wedges with a round circle, kinda like sideways exclamation points. Like the Datsun Z car's rear flat tail bars, and the merc coupes' got the same, those straight lines have grown on me, and I even like the rear of the seven, when looking from straight behind...all in all, it make the 5'er even more incongruous..

oh well, maybe they'll straighten it out for the 06 Tourer
http://zoouz.free.fr/other/e61/TMP_fichiers/e61_001.jpghttp://volcano.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ggil-tx/bmw/wagon_rear.jpg


at least it's straight and flat as it meets the red lens, unlike the 5er's asssss
http://zoouz.free.fr/other/e61/TMP_fichiers/e61_003.jpg

[George Mann]

the f-ed up ugly car it is....for 10 grand less.
LOL,
George

[Unregistered]

WHICH ONE IS THE E-65???
what series BMW and what years?
just trying to get the picture in my head.

E65 is the *new* 7 series which came out in 2001-present. For a picture, think BMW with the "J-Lo" butt aka 745 J-Lo......

[callen]

Mercedes evolved thier styling........new S and E class look new fresh and kept traditional Mercedes cues........

never needed time to like the E34 or the E39 they both made my heart jump when I first saw them........new 5 is ugly....and I am in the demographic BMW wants......late 30's with money to spend.......if only they had attractive cars. Sure mechanics are good but the thing has to look good.

[Sweetwater]

the f-ed up ugly car it is....for 10 grand less.
LOL,
George

George,

You wore out your welcome AFAIC. The Infinity has a cheap rice burner look. It's definitely not a classic design destined to carry forward. If my instincts are correct, it will look different in 3 years (again). Most of the points being made are that the Teutonic trend is to copy this. AND WE DON'T LIKE IT.

[Ian w]

the f-ed up ugly car it is....for 10 grand less.
LOL,
George



Not a car I'm too familiar with , a Nissan I think. looks inoffensive enough, like Richard Clayderman or Celery. You would if you had to but not with your own money.

[Kennan]

Looks are subjective, but I love my e60. The e34 is a classic, but next to my e60 it looks quite dated. I almost went with an e46 M3 or a used e39 M5, but am more than happy with my choice.

I remember browsing the old board when the e39 debuted. The majority of e34 owners back then disliked the e39 very much, but today you see the same people driving an e39 or considering buying one. Go figure.

I'll try to post some pics later as my server is down at the moment.

[George M]

Sweetwater,
There must be something other than sweet in the water you are drinkin'....lol...what ever you said...was pretty much unintelligible. Since I have been in more design studios and worked with more car designers and am closer to the pulse of what is leading edge from a design and style standpoint than you ever thought about since I design cars for a living....I will trust my instincts and tell you what will be in vogue from a design standpoint in the next few years....not any of the contemporary BMW's. I side with the automotive press which almost unanamously pans not only the E-65 but its smaller sibbling clone the E-60. I followed one around on the road today....a brand new 530i....its still ugly.
George

[Unregistered]

I saw a survey (I believe Car and Driver Mag) that people who purchase LUXURY cars purchase based on (40% - appearance, 22% - performance, 21% - status (brand name), 14% - safety, 3% - other). So the appearance is the selling point. Nobody wants to drive a car that's ugly, especially if you could afford a car in luxury category. E60? The beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the new E60 might be too radical for present design but in few more years, who knows... Certain car companies like Jaguar had remained its retro copies but that's not a kop out in terms of design. They do this to keep classic heritage alive in the looks of these cars and it is their main selling point. If you ask a Jaguar owner why he or she purchased the car, they will tell you becuase of the styling over anything else. And for Mercedes being dull as a dishwater has never driven the fastest mid-size luxury sadan, Mercedes E55 AMG (0-60 miles in 4.2 sec.). And poorly made??? I don't know which Mercedes you're talking about but they are definitely not poorly made. I think Mercedes have some of the highest engineering feats than any of German cars. And where did you come out saying people who purchase Audis aren't really interested in cars? No offense to female gender… But we all know... More female purchase BMW than Audi. Go figure...



The E60 like the other Bangle designs is cutting edge design , it will take longer to apppeal to the eye , but will look fresher for much longer.

The present range of Jags are a kop out in terms of design , retro copies of classic designs but hardly push car design forward as the originals did, they also look dated already.

Mercs are now as dull as dishwater and also poorly made, selling only on their brand reputation, which is rapidly dissappearing.

Audis are ok if your not really intrested in cars , but think you should have something German.

Saabs are for dentists.

The E60 will during its life, outsell its competitors because its a better car.

[Bill R.]

some of the ugliest new cars I have ever seen...and the G35 is one of the cleanest looks in new cars that I've seen too.... When the e39 came out I immediately thought it was very clean and a progression from the e34 as far as appearances go but this new one is just plain ugly from any angle..










Sweetwater,
There must be something other than sweet in the water you are drinkin'....lol...what ever you said...was pretty much unintelligible. Since I have been in more design studios and worked with more car designers and am closer to the pulse of what is leading edge from a design and style standpoint than you ever thought about since I design cars for a living....I will trust my instincts and tell you what will be in vogue from a design standpoint in the next few years....not any of the contemporary BMW's. I side with the automotive press which almost unanamously pans not only the E-65 but its smaller sibbling clone the E-60. I followed one around on the road today....a brand new 530i....its still ugly.
George

[Kennan]

Here's a few pics of my fugly e60. Too bad the 545i is superior to my e34 or any of the e39 M5s I have driven. Down with Bangle.

http://www.soundillusions.net/sites/heezyo2o/resize800.JPG
http://www.soundillusions.net/sites/heezyo2o/resize8002.JPG

[Ian W]

quote

"Sales are holding steady, but quality scores in the USA are way down for the German luxury brand. In the next 18 months, it's coming out with products ranging from $25,000 to $450,000, highlighting a risky strategy of offering something for just about everyone, not just the wealthy."

quote

"Some of the lost nobility is from falling quality scores. J.D. Power and Associates last year ranked Mercedes 26th among brands for long-term dependability, down from first in 1990. Biggest problem: bug-filled electronics."

quote

"The bright side, Gorrell says, is Mercedes has time to fix the problems because falling quality takes years to dent consumer confidence.
A report earlier this month by the Power Information Network, an affiliate of J.D. Power, shows the portion of Mercedes owners who trade for another tops all luxury brands at slightly less than 60%."

Quote(mine)

"the plastics crap".



They are dull , relying on an outside tuner to make an intresting one.

[Unregistered]

Many new cars are facing certain reliability issue as many manufacture complete to bring new technology to take advantage over fierce competition. Mercedes is not the only company with reliability issues. BMW X5 owners know very well about reliability issues. If you ask your local service manager about X5, they will tell you they spend half of the time in the service department. Also, we know all about “I-Drive” system or “I drive while you use the system”… And about the plastic crap… Well, hard to avoid it. They all have them, especially the cheaper models.



quote

"Sales are holding steady, but quality scores in the USA are way down for the German luxury brand. In the next 18 months, it's coming out with products ranging from $25,000 to $450,000, highlighting a risky strategy of offering something for just about everyone, not just the wealthy."

quote

"Some of the lost nobility is from falling quality scores. J.D. Power and Associates last year ranked Mercedes 26th among brands for long-term dependability, down from first in 1990. Biggest problem: bug-filled electronics."

quote

"The bright side, Gorrell says, is Mercedes has time to fix the problems because falling quality takes years to dent consumer confidence.
A report earlier this month by the Power Information Network, an affiliate of J.D. Power, shows the portion of Mercedes owners who trade for another tops all luxury brands at slightly less than 60%."

Quote(mine)

"the plastics crap".



They are dull , relying on an outside tuner to make an intresting one.

[Sweetwater]

some of the ugliest new cars I have ever seen...and the G35 is one of the cleanest looks in new cars that I've seen too.... When the e39 came out I immediately thought it was very clean and a progression from the e34 as far as appearances go but this new one is just plain ugly from any angle..

I'm certainly of the opinion that you deserve your own as well as the next person. Credentials bounce off me like teflon, so don't flail them about. As a prospective buyer, that rice burner looks like a rice burner. I won't soon buy a car with those lines as the blind spot both fore and aft is extended beyond my tolerances. BWTFDIK. As to my unintelligibility, I quite enjoy your bafflement if it's real. If not, I'll pretend to enjoy it anyway. And if you truly spend your time creating that rice burning look, well, you have my pity and condolences.

BTW, sweetwater can lead to deadwood depending on which direction you're going.

Peace out. ;)

[Jon M.]

Here's a few pics of my fugly e60. Too bad the 545i is superior to my e34 or any of the e39 M5s I have driven. Down with Bangle.



Kenman - I have to say, that is one good looking car. (both of them, but particularly the 545i. It must look better in lighter colors - something about the way the shadows hit it. When you put them side by side, the E34 does indeed look dated. Still a nice looking car, but looking like a classic, not necessarily a fresh design.

I probably would have been happier with a less weird headlamp/front-end treatment, but I'm fine with the ass-end and side view.

Nice purchase.

Jon M.

'92 535i, thinking about an E39

[Unregistered]

Kenman - I have to say, that is one good looking car..... particularly the 545i. It must look better in lighter colors - something about the way the shadows hit it.....a nice looking car, but looking like a classic, not necessarily a fresh design.



Yeah, put a f*cking Coors Lite sticker on it and have Bill Elliott race it under the lights at Daytona why don't you.

It looks like a 1981 ****ing Nascar T-Bird with a big-assed aerodynamic pussy mounded cameltoe greel up front. What an ugly piece of shite..that's what it is.

Rock on E34, play on drummer

[Jon M.]

Yeah, put a f*cking Coors Lite sticker on it and have Bill Elliott race it under the lights at Daytona why don't you.

It looks like a 1981 ****ing Nascar T-Bird with a big-assed aerodynamic pussy mounded cameltoe greel up front. What an ugly piece of shite..that's what it is.

Rock on E34, play on drummer

lol

please, tell us how you really feel...

[Unregistered]

Yeah, put a f*cking Coors Lite sticker on it and have Bill Elliott race it under the lights at Daytona why don't you.

It looks like a 1981 ****ing Nascar T-Bird with a big-assed aerodynamic pussy mounded cameltoe greel up front. What an ugly piece of shite..that's what it is.

Rock on E34, play on drummer


More proof of this cars design quality..what time does that dealer open.

[Kennan]

Bill Elliott has always been my favorite Nascar driver, but never a fan of the T-birds, especially the 80s version.

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