Is it time for a change??? Bill R, Jr, Anyone?

[Geoff Hoad]

Well, I have had the Black Beast (1994 E34 525iA) for 14 years now and 235,000 kms later I am at a crossroads. The old dear is still in immaculate condition and drives like new. The Koni/Eibach combination is wonderful and the Michelin Pilots on replica Throwing Stars keep her planted all round. There is nothing wrong with the car and I smile every time I drive it. The preventative maintenance programme I have used over the years has paid off big time with not one glitch or hiccup. The EAT chip which went in God knows how many years ago has been the best single investment going. The car has won the BMW Nationals (once) and NSW Show and Shines (three times) and has danced around Wakefield Park a few times. The admiring glances I get when driving were not as I thought because of my good looks, they are all for the car (which frankly is better looking than me).

My speed fix (Supercharged E36 318Ti) has been passed onto my son so I am down to the BB. But sometimes, late at night, when its quiet, I dream about built in satnav's, comfort seats and anything but a black on black combination. And more power! Casrsales suggests the E34 is worth very little and here in Australia you can pick up a low mileage 540i with full BMW service history for about ten grand. 525i's are going for less. Maybe its time for a change...

Given that the car owes me nothing and is now worth very little, I should have no hestitation about moving on. Or should I?

Maybe I should supercharge it. I can pick up a kit designed for an E36 with a Rotrex supercharger like the one I put in the 318Ti from the US for about $5K. Except that would need a new transmission and diff. Talk about overcapitalising!!!

But back to reality... Is it time for an E39 540i Sport or should I go the whole hog and get a current shape 545i? Or a 645i or a 745i??? Or keep the old dear and watch us both get old together?

Really not sure what to do. Any advice from anyone??? Quentin still has his 535i and I would cop lots of stick from him if I bought anything that Chris Bangle had breathed on...

Thanks,

Geoff
Sydney, Oz

[Grantus]

If I had the money, I would have an E39 sport tomorrow, or maybe next week considering that it is a holiday weekend.

[genphreak]

The Koni/Eibach combination is wonderful and the Michelin Pilots on replica Throwing Stars keep her planted all round. There is nothing wrong with the car and I smile every time I drive it... That sums it up for me... automtive bliss!

And you're still not tired of it after 12 years. Great work. Buy more beer this Easter, be happy Geoff!

Something doesn't make sense though: You have a worthless car that will require only 'planned maintenance/understandable failures' and you are thinking to swap to a later model that will cost a lot and may never make you as happy... ooooooh! Beware salesmen and your walking wallet.

The grass is always greener OTOS, but this is a hige human failing we all suffer from. The best way to 'be higher than that' is to consider your risk: Imagine regretting losing the BB and having spent $60k to do so... OMG!

Imagine having an e39 and all ther problems and wear. Requirign all the goodies like Konis added... Hmmm.

For me the whole point about the e34 for me is the timelessness nature of it. But I know the tendancies of which you speak: The only advice I will provide is this: Remains solid as a rock, hedonistic tastes will always corode love. BUT you don't want to end up divorced & regretting it & paying for the privilege!

Maybe consider an e32 740i with all the trimmings. The best of the best, with better handliing than an e34! Scout up a 6 speed manual for her, large case with LSD and nice Konis etc. Everything an e34 is with killer presence. Would still cost less than the first few payments on a 1 series... LOL!

[Bo525i]

I´d keep the old darling AND get a 645i :)

[Geoff Hoad]

You make a good point about it being a solid car. The UK magazine Total BMW call the E34 a "Car for Life". And it is so very well built. Also there is a cost in getting the "new" E39 or whatever up to spec. But the same applies to any alternative. I may try a squeeze more power out of the old dear through a cold air intake plus cat back exhaust. that should free up another 10 hp if I extend to a bigger throttle body. It will never be a 4 litre V8... but.

Another alternative is go get an E34 540 and invest in an upgraded suspension. Maybe we will try Plan A first.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

Cheers,

[Geoff Hoad]

Every time I see one I go weak at the knees and start wondering where I can buy a Balaclava.... Do you think the judge would understand. Here in OZ they are still a 90 grand car. But if I wait long enough... I could be dead from old age. :)

[genphreak]

I may try a squeeze more power out of the old dear through a cold air intake plus cat back exhaust. that should free up another 10 hp if I extend to a bigger throttle body. It will never be a 4 litre V8... but. Another alternative is go get an E34 540 and invest in an upgraded suspension. Maybe we will try Plan A first. Thanks for all the replies and advice. Cheers,If you want power... there is a guy in Castle Hill who is making really good extractors for all e34s (and selling them on the bay) for $1k. I know they are terrific (no affiliation, and he may not deliver as fast as he says he can, so beware). A CAI will get no power over the stock one, a larger TB will (esp with extractors). Going that far, you could siply add a cam (again, some guys are now doing these properly in Aus) so the value is fine nowadays.

Typ. cams are too heavy to ship and they can easily get broken too). Add an ECU whilst you are at it for maximum return.

If yours is an M50 you can get a set of M3 cams and a special chip, that will give you a massive step up (think S50 power less a certain amount as you remain without the extra RPMs), but you can add an ECU or a chip (Megasquirt or even the WAR chip maybe) to make the most of it under 7000. Some ppl in the US sell this as a standard mod to make use of the M3 cams they have lying around ($1000 retail with a chip).

All good cheap power mods to give her a decent facelift...

[Geoff Hoad]

I hadn't heard about the header option. Who is it in Castle Hill is doing this? I live next door at Bella Vista. The US M3 Cams option is a good one as you swap the inlet to the outlet (or is it the other way around)? Then just buy one camshaft and Mark from EAT has the software, so it is a relatively cost effective upgrade. But add headers then its worth doing all that then getting a custom remap.

[genphreak]

Yea, he's doing them for all BMWs. I don't know how he's doing it... so well aparently. M60s, e28s, the lot. Headers are the best mod you can do as they bolt on and transform an engine. The only reason not to do it is that the factory BMW headers are about as good as factory headers get. The only trouble is, that doesn't say much... LOL! You'll find him on the bay. Not sure where he makes them, I suspect its overseas, best to ask him though.

[Jr ///M5]

Hey Geoff!!! Man it's good to hear from you! You are coming to the crossroads of E34 ownership. They say the BB isn't worth anything, so keep it.

Another E34? 540i Sport? Hmmm.....my opinion, skip the E39 and go into the E60. Even the 530i E60 has plenty of power, but the 545i....=)

We've owned the E39 and during our ownership, it was less than stellar. I would keep the E34 before I took that step. Consider the E60, that took refinements that made the E39 a new model and stepped it up to a whole new level. An E60 545i with the sport package, navigation, active steering, active roll control, and dynamic drive is a car that brings power, handling and luxury into the 21st century. Consider the choices and this would be my clear choice.

Maybe we should break down, buy the laptop and software to work on these cars and drag our asses kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Hope all is well with you and your family this Easter. I sure miss our chats.

Take care good friend,
Jr

[Geoff Hoad]

Jr, great to hear from you. Likewise on the good times we spent on our E34's and E30's. Interesting you say that about the E39. The price of early models is nearly that of E34's which says something in itself.

I was seriously considering a 4 year old 745i until I heard the horror stories from the owner about how the dealers would attempt to rape and pillage on every opportunity. It took me back to the day when the dealer new car warranty ran out and I decided to do it all myself. 12 years later it's been a cheap and reliabel car to run. I can still walk out the door and drive it 1,000 kms to Melbourne and know it will get me there and back.

But I have heard good things about the E60. So maybe keep the E34 for a while longer then move into a 545i. Then again maybe a %30i :).

All the best and we must "talk" again soon.

[Jr ///M5]

We have been very pleased with the '04 530i Sport as Lori's 120 mile per day commuter. Driven lightly, it will return 28-31 mpg on the highway and already has 106k miles.

I really like the 545i sport though, but I wouldn't want it for a long distance daily commuter. The simplicity of the big 6 cylinder is still the best choice for that circumstance.

Good luck in your search, let us know what you decide.

[bubba966]

Why not just put a blower on your 525? That'd step up the power a decent bit. Seems to me to be the best option $-wise since your car is already up to snuff and there's no surprises with it as you've had it forever.

[Bill R.]

I'm the wrong person to reply to this since the newest bmw i have is the 2000 e46 wagon and my other cars are the 89 535, a 92 previa, and a 98 f150 and i have no intention of getting rid of any of them at this time.
I've driven many of the newer ones that i work on and they don't do anything more for me that the 89 doesn't do.
I'm starting to buy all the spare parts i find on ebay for the 535 that won't be around in the future.

The m30 motors are now being crushed at the junkyards here since they never sell because they don't break.

I was working on a e90 the other day that a customer had replaced their own window regulator on and it would only go up an inch or 2 each time you pressed the switch.
I had to use the scan tool to initialize the windows before they would work..... just from a simple regulator change. When i initially hooked up the scan tool it read 48 separate computer systems on that e90......starting to get a bit much to me. And all the aluminum bolts on a e90 motor... that have to be replaced every time you remove them.... Alternator mounting bolts , aluminum bolts also.

No thanks, i guess im just one of those old guys that likes his old cars.....about the only thing i would buy new on is a prius and thats not gunna happen for awhile either.

[Bill R.]

Jr, it's not going to be just the laptop and software anymore, most of the newer cars i work on now are going to require passthru programming... reflashing software instead of replacing parts to correct a problem..
more software ,more cables, precise voltage supply and a dead reliable internet connection along with a paid subscription to bmw access....

The boxster i was working on required a new central locking systems computer that had to be flashed. The local porsche dealer wanted almost double what a dealer in San Francisco wanted for the computer. But the local dealer here won't guarantee that the flash will work unless you buy his computer

[Jr ///M5]

I experienced the lighting control module in the E39. Had to buy a new module from BMW, then it had to be re-programmed to match the E39. They flashed it for nothing only because they know me. Like you, they said there was no guarantee it would fix it. I assured them it would, only because of the leaking door seals that are notorious on E39's and a 6" rainfall one day that found it's way inside the car and shorted out the LCM. They were just moving over to the ISIS system for the newer models. How in the world is the independent shop going to keep up with that type of technology that costs dealers here $$$$ to install the system, then re-train the techs to use it.

The new ISIS system is quite impressive, this BMW shop has umteen Gigs to run the thing and like you say, a superfast dependable internet system. One day they will be able to fix your car as you drive down the road.

What I'm wondering is if anyone in the future will actually know how to use wrenches?

Sure does make you appreciate the simplicity of the E34. In it's time, it too was advanced in electronic technology.

Good to hear from you Bill, hope you and Yvonne had a Happy Easter.

JR

[Geoff Hoad]

Bill, you raise an issue that's been troubling me for a while. A friend of mine owns a hire car company and his small fleet are exclusively current model 745i's. He was telling me that he has had significant problems keeping the car on the road and the cost from the dealer has been astronomical. A module (can't recall which) failed and he was quoted 5 grand by the dealer to replace and code. He sourced the same part from BMW in Manilla shipped it to Australia and had it fitted and coded for less than a thousand dollars. And there have been many more problems due to parts failure or the need to have the car reprogrammed.

The complexity of new cars is getting a real concern both from a maintenance perspective and from the position that you will need to use the dealer more. Aside from stuff I don't want to do or can't do, I have done all the maintenance on the BB. And the truth be told, it's an easy car to work on, even if it only has 5 computers! It seesm the E36/E39 were the last cars that the average person could work on. But after that...

The technology and performance today is truly awesome, but what will it cost???

[Geoff Hoad]

I still remember the concern expressed by many automotive journalists when the E32 came out. They thought the technology was too complex and the car would be subject to many failures..... Ditto with the E34.

[genphreak]

I still remember the concern expressed by many automotive journalists when the E32 came out. They thought the technology was too complex and the car would be subject to many failures..... Ditto with the E34.They were right though, how many e31 or e32 V12 owners weren't paying their local mechanics the equivalent of child support? All those e31 and e32 V12s with 2 ECUs, 2 fuel pumps, 2x EMLs and all their endless, myriadic issues.

But on the high volume cars of that period, think of what they still managed to get wrong;


Hundreds of tailor-made connectors that don't seal and don't come apart well or go together very easily
Kgs of Copper wiring more than is required (just look under the carpet)
Plastic bits that go brittle and die
Tailgate wiring (touring and sedan)
ZF Transmission shaft seals
ZF A clutches
Door brakes
Microfilter location on RHD
Plastic impellers on M50 engines

... and the list goes on.

All this is without wondering why they didn't build all of them with a basic production ethos like making fuel delivery systems standard across all models, ie one that can run all engines and work with different size tanks. Instead they kept (and keep) tailoring them? And this list goes on too...

If they got all these things wrong on e32/e34 with their 'low' levels of complexity, yet it was still so good, how can they possibly get it right with the complexity of the new ones? Today's complexities are no longer where BMW, ZF, Getrag ***OR Bosch*** are strong:

Why?

New car models are totally dependent on software production and lifecycle, where they used to be totally dependent on engineering and production.

A new VW/Benz/BMW is an equation I know too well in my world (software). It is a customised group of interdependent computer systems that comprises non-comodity software (with all its endless bugs and esoteric complexities) with dynamic real world situations and humans.

In Information Technology, anyone good will tell you that systems that are made tightly integrated and closely coupled are prone to failure.

There are 2 aspects that are most concerning here; Auto manufacturers are shifting revenue from sales to the maintenance cycle. They try everything they can to protect that revenue, whether this be non-standard connectors or making it reliant on specialised, limitd distribution software. If they get as bad as Microsoft, they'll try encrypting data to make it unintelligable to the technician without the right tools. All this makes it hard for others to get in, and forces tehir companies and the ir customers to rely on little islands of engineering capability, to solve all the problems. Meaning you end up 100% reliant on the st(d)ealer and a bunch of people who can end up locked away within a large corporation, unable to be a part of the innovation and technological advances that the rest of the world gets on with regardless. (corporations enforce all this on individuals through process, lawyers, NDAs, Access Controls, policy, etc.). It kills the innovation and creativity that drive software development stone dead.

The second aspect is that when the software engineers don't get real world dynamics (inc. all the complexities of human behaviour, driving and weather) or think incorrecrtly or poorly about what the mechanics will do wrong servicing them, catastrophic failure is likely. This means lots of software upgrades, more engineering in the field and customer pain. Also the equivalent of covert surveilance on customers: "Sorry sir, we can't cover the new transmission and programming costs under warranty; your cars logs show you were driving badly" (when in actual fact the logs were recording a symptoms of the core failure that they don't have to tell you everything about (i.e. I wouldn't expect them to use this evidence to only support the truth)...

So until the solution to all that becomes, "here is your new car Sir, here is your online login, your USB connector, and maintenance program (to do everything ever needed to update and work with BMW electronically" (including the sourcecode that runs theese systems or at least a Development Kit (SDK)), "the 'beta testers' can have all these new flashy models to themselves :)

Sorry, I meant to say 'alpha testers'... (who luckily are customers with deep wallets and lots of time to waste: BMW's target market (sorry favourite customers!)

At least we'll be able to source nice cheap upgrade parts once all these new models are failing 10 years before they normally would. Even now I only look at e39s thinking about how the motor or some other bit will fit my e34. Current production runs have such vast engine diferences that much of the core items will be near impossible to update an e34 with in future: ie the effective coupling of the cam and crank to the verison of the ECU and the driveline, emissions and other sensors for example. Use it anywhere else you end up re-engineering so many inputs or adding so many 'add on' systems that we just get a tougher and tougher time making it work (when with commodity products this should just get easier)

If they do manage to get any of the new models right, they'll be the picks of the 2nd hand market. There won't be many... only the Japanese makers are getting these equations better (OMG imagine maintaining a 20 year old Mazda that's done 3-500k)

I'm keeping my e34s until I can get a Tesla, or something like it. The way things are going we may all be lucky to buy a 2020 electric Isetta (v2.0) over some commodity Toyota eCar :) Heh, now which of those will be the Trabant of the 2020s I wonder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSn1cffKnW0&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBsPFI--muo

All that said, pleny of people don't even like M52s, let alone M54s and N64s. 'Give me an ol' M30 that never breaks anyday' they often say.

Commodity reliability may be the only way to go in future. All hail companies like GM, our community's oldest "best friend"... :D

Apologies for the above bloat, I better get off my soapbox now.

[Geoff Hoad]

OK Bill, what parts should we start stocking up on to maintain our E34's for the next twenty years?

[Paul in NZ]

i suggest you drive a e39 540 first Geoff.i drove a reaklly nice one and was strangely unmoved...very nice car and very powerful,but there was something missing.I am prolly gonna try a new intake which deletes the old butterfly valve.Or there is a immaculate 540 six speed e34 up for sale with a price tag to match

[genphreak]

i suggest you drive a e39 540 first Geoff.i drove a reaklly nice one and was strangely unmoved...very nice car and very powerful,but there was something missing.I am prolly gonna try a new intake which deletes the old butterfly valve.Or there is a immaculate 540 six speed e34 up for sale with a price tag to matchAgreed. its just as good for the autobahn, but through the twisties the e32 and e34 are far stiffer. The chassis dynamics that leave it for dead IMHO. e32 trumps e34 tho, its wider and is just unbelievable driving when its got the same stiff bars as an e34 that's been well 'flavoured' for spirited driving.

[repenttokyo]

i'm moving on to a CTS-V in the next month or two, and passing the E34 to my girlfriend. It's time for a change, even thought I still love the car.

[genphreak]

i'm moving on to a CTS-V in the next month or two, and passing the E34 to my girlfriend. It's time for a change, even thought I still love the car.Well they say a change is as good as a love-affair (for a little while at least).

The Top Gear on that one was a lot of fun... it just needs "Moa powwar"!

[Geoff Hoad]

That's interesting, especially about chassis stiffness. I thought the e39 was supposed to be stiffer but if that doesn't translate to the driving characteristics......

Intend to keep the old dear for the meantime. It looks great and drives so well.