Lessons learned "Struts"

[Kibokojoe]

Lessons learned:

Just found out what was causing all of the front-end noise after 3 years. Sad thing is I have spent a lot of money and replaced every part on the front end. Come to find out the PO had the struts replaced and when the shop reassembled the struts they left out a critical component. The upper strut washer. Of course when I replaced the struts 3 years ago I did not notice that the strut washer had been left out. I was careful to replace all of the components in the correct order as I had removed them. Last week I was rebuilding my son’s 735i struts and noticed these washers. Now I know my memory is going but I remembered that these washers were missing on my 5. I ordered the parts and last night pulled my 5 struts again. Sure enough they were missing. The only thing I can think of is that the PO had strut bumpers removed as a lot of us do with Bilstein struts and when he did they left out the bumper stop and the washer. Drove the 5 last night and man does she handle and drives like a new car. Ha Lessons learned

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/lessonslearned.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/lessonslearned2.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/lessonslearned3.jpg

[rockin1978TA]

I replaced my struts last year with bilsteins. I might have to take one side apart again. I got in a rush, and after installed back on the car, I noticed the washer was put back on upside down. I think it's ok, and also did you put oil in the tubes? Mine was missing the bumpers on both sides.

[Ferret]

Didn't this topic crop up like a week or two ago?

[Kibokojoe]

Yeah I put the 30 cc of oil in. My understanding is that you don't run the bumpers with Bilstein struts. If you put them in upside down you should be able to look up into the tower with the car jacked up and see, with having to remove the strut. Might want to remove the tire though. I noticed mine were missing without removing anything just jacking up the car.

[Kibokojoe]

Update

After replacing the lower washers I still had a little movement in the front end. When I stepped on the brake the wheels would wobble or flutter slightly. Found out it is necessary to replace the upper washers too. In this illustration they are part number 5. The rubber on the bottom side of these washers wears after time. I checked both sides with a feeler gauge and could slide the feeler easily between the strut mount and the washer. Now that they are replaced can't get the feeler between without a lot of force. Now the front end is tight and smooth. $15.00 each side isn't cheap but it was worth it.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/strutstop.jpg

[Jehu]

So even though you;d run without these parts so long the Strut Mounts and Struts themselves were still good?

I have some excess vibration I keep thinking is from the struts...This looks like a good place to check.. thanks for the info.

[Kibokojoe]

yeap only took me three years to figure it all out,, everything else is still good. Went out for a ride today. Very nice on the highway. These are great cars. Makes it worth all the work.

[Kibokojoe]

Don't know, I originally posted this back in April. Just now getting everything sorted out. If I can I like to finish threads so newbies can see if there is a solution to the problem. I know this site has been invaluable to me.

Now that I know how to check this area it is just a matter of jacking up the front of the car taking the wheels off the ground and then with the strut caps (7) off watch the strut tower area as you lower the vehicle slowly. If there is any slop in this area (parts 1, 5, 6) it will be noticeable. Also with the wheels on the ground you can run a feeler gauge around between the bottom of the washer (5) and the top of the strut bearing (1). You should not be able to insert a thin feeler gauge into this area without a lot of force.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/strutstop.jpg

[6670charger]

I'm one of the newbies, and this thread does provide me some good info as I'm in the process of changing out my shocks and springs right now. My question, since I've never done this before, is how do you re-assemble the strut assembly so that the three studs in the upper mount align with the holes in the inner fender? I don't recall reading anything about this in the Bentley manual, and don't have it to look at right now as it's saved on another computer. The upper mount has to be bolted and torqued onto the spring/shock before the assembly is put into the car as best as I can tell. Unless there is some special pre-assembly trick, I foresee having to assemble/disassemble each of them several times to get the upper stud alignment right.

I understand that there is probably something I'm missing here, so please forgive my ignorance. Just trying to save myself some time and effort.

Thanks.

[whiskychaser]

The top of the shock mount rotates. But note that the studs are not in a perfect triangle. Maybe mark the top of one before you remove the strut from the car.

[6670charger]

Great info, thanks.

[Bruno]

No need for any markings, the spring sits on the spring pads and you just make sure that the end of the spring ends up at the end of the spring pads top and bottom.
IF you do that then for sure everything lines up the way it should.

And use a spring compressor for the front springs, and a good quality one as a flying spring can take your head off... literary.
Another trick is that you can keep the rotor on the strut assembly (just remove the caliper and disconnect the ABS sensor), then once you remove the spring, put the assembly in a vise and use a pipe wrench to remove the collar nut. Soak with your favorite "wd 40" type product.

[whiskychaser]

No need for any markings, the spring sits on the spring pads and you just make sure that the end of the spring ends up at the end of the spring pads top and bottom.
IF you do that then for sure everything lines up the way it should.

I think he just meant how do you make sure the top mount studs will go through the holes. But you make a very good point about having the spring ends up against the spring pad 'stops' top and bottom. I've found that the hardest bit of the whole operation is keeping them there while you back the clamps off:D

[6670charger]

OK. I think I've got it. I'm sure it'll become a whole lot more clear as I get into the assembly process.

[Dave M]

There will be a mark on the strut mount to indicate allignment.

Dave

[Bill R.]

You don't need a mark on the mount, it has the studs staggered so it will only go in one way. and the upper bearing mount should rotate freely so you can line it up

[whiskychaser]

You don't need a mark on the mount, it has the studs staggered so it will only go in one way. and the upper bearing mount should rotate freely so you can line it up
Exactly so. I suggested the mark as Murphy's law states you only find out the studs are in the wrong orientation when you are holding the weight of the strut and trying in vain to get the studs to go through the holes:)

[6670charger]

Was looking at the upper shock mount today for the rear struts, and I don't see anywhere on the things where they might rotate. At least not without compressing the spring, loosening the attaching nut to the strut and then re-tightening each time. The upper pad may slide inside the mount, allowing it to turn once pressure is released. Seems like getting the upper mounts to align with the mounting holes in the body is going to be a real bitch.

[whiskychaser]

The discussion was about fronts before. They have a bearing as the wheels need to turn side to side. The rears dont do that. (Well they are not supposed to but lets leave that one for another day:D ) Make sure each end of the spring is up against the stop and the studs should go through the holes. If you are in any doubt, mark up all the bits with a dab of tippex or paint before you take them apart. You can then line them up perfectly on reassembly.

[6670charger]

OK, now I'm confused. I thought whiskeychaser just said that the rear mount doesn't have a bearing mount and won't spin. I know that mine don't. I just looked at them. It's just a metal cap that holds the rubber pad inside and has three studs on the top with a hole in the center. There is nothing that rotates freely, or appears like it was ever intended to. As best as I can tell, once that thing is on the spring and the main nut is tightened, the only way to move it is to re-compress the spring, back the nut off until the mount is movable and then retighten the bolt.

I can try marking the position of the upper mount on the old springs when I take them out, and then try to align the new springs on the new struts as closely as I can to the old. That will probably get me reasonably close. Maybe the rear upper mounts that are currently in the car are somehow different from the ones I took out of my 92. Guess I'll have to wait and see what they look like when I pull them.

[Bruno]

You line them up before putting them into the car. Easy.
7463
One threaded pin (1) should ligned up with the flat surface (2)
and the opposite side of (3)

You can adjust it slightly while on the car before putting them all the way in.

The rear is definitively easy.

[Bruno]

See my answer above. You can set it up on the ground 1st.

Read the procedure: http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Suspension/Rear_shocks.htm
Read the bentley, do some searches, this procedure has been done thousand times by thousand people.

We all have our trick or tips to do it. It will make sense when you do it once on one side and then you will be faster on the other side.
And do not leave the handbrake one when you do the rear shocks.

[6670charger]

OK! After looking at the picture in the link it makes more sense. The assembly of the strut is pretty straightforward, but, I figured there had to be some trick to alignment of the upper spring mount since it doesn't turn once tightened, and the lower spring platform on the strut is just flat with no markings for spring placement.

I know a this has been done many times, which is why I figured someone here would know the answer to my question. Maybe I just didn't ask it the right way.

[whiskychaser]

the lower spring platform on the strut is just flat with no markings for spring placement.

I did say there are 'stops'. On the fronts there are physical steps in the strut and mount which are mirrored by the spring pads. On the rears the bottom mount is flat. The stops I meant are in the pads. The pads tend to stay put but you can of course move or replace them. My apologies if I mislead you in any way.

[6670charger]

No problem. Yes, I've seen how the pads are contoured to the springs and have what you call 'stops' in them. My problem (if you can call it that) is that I'm rebuilding the whole thing from the ground up in back, so the pads with their 'stops' will be replaced too. I had nothing initially I could see or think of that would help me get the upper mount positioned right for installation.