Help - is it time for the E34 to leave me?

[Scott C]

Well my brother has done me a favor - he found a 2008 525i with 30K miles for $22.5K - still under warranty, etc.

Should I?
I don't know much about the new ones but oh is so tempting... Anybody know of the warts on these new versions? I usually keep my cars 10 years so..

Scott

[Tiger]

I tried to look up a 2008 525i... doesn't exist in USA. Price is awesome though... wow. I would go for it... what else can you buy at $22,500?

[BMWDriver]

If it's too good to be true...

[Tiger]

The only way to get that kind of price is dealer employee...

[Scott C]

The only way to get that kind of price is dealer employee...


Yes, he bought one at an auction for wholesale plus 700 and it may be a 528 I was too shocked to remember - he actually bought two - a 2007 and a 2008. I like that fact that they come with remainder of factory warranty and the one he offered me was silver with tan (I prefer black but huum).

His disposable income is a "little" different than mine. He drives them through warranty completion then sells at 50-60K miles or after 2 years.

I have mixed feelings. I love my car, it is simple but it is getting old (like me)...

[Rick L]

Wow, that's a great price. I would purchase at that price.

[Tiger]

That's really an awesome price... wholesale price at dealer auction.

[genphreak]

Siple answer. take it, and keep both :) No losing anything... and you always have a backup vehicle, with all its love :D

[bsell]

It's got a 'real' title right, no salvage puppy this one?

Being as it is a non-turbo motor, she should be pretty reliable. That engine does not like being driven short distances as she will complain with lifter ticking...at least my '08 328 did.

As an aside, be careful and don't let 'old trusty' know you are selling her. She might get jealous and break on you like mine did. Went to sell her today and found out the LF shock is leaking. Must have been that canyon I hit a couple weeks ago near Heidelburg...man, this was a hard winter for the roads. So here goes 230 Euro and a morning's worth of wrenching...

Good luck with your decision,

Brian

[Mordan]

keep your E34. 22k is a lot of money. even for a 525i. what can you do with 22k?

I could buy complete my collection of old video games. I could buy a land plot. I could invest in real stuff.
keep the old sturdy horse. and buy a big garage to buy another old horse. at least that's what a young man like me would do with 22k of disposable income.

[BMWDriver]

A difficult choice indeed. Have you driven it? I strictly have no clue how e60s are like to drive compared to the e34. I had heard once a guy went from an e46 M3 back to e36 M3 because the first was too assisted to his tastes. Preferred the hard, raw feel of the e36. Had the e36 M3 turboed too.

I put a lot of time restoring and making small upgrades, and spent for mechanical fixes with no regrets. I know that thing pretty well by now. I don't know that I would want to part with it even if lots of money came my way. I'd probably choose to have the engine rebuilt, have it professionally restored, change the suspension and get it some nicer wheels, and perhaps an engine swap for something recent and a bit more fuel efficient or powerful.

That thing is so much fun to drive as is for me. Although nice, the e60's design is not one I like most. I find Aston Martins and Bentleys coupe look nicer in comparison. But it's still a BMW.

What's the perspective on maintenance? Will you have to go to the dealer to preserve the warranty? Would it cost more? DIY or do you go to an indie?

It's all up to you.

[Scott C]

Thanks for the thoughts folks.. One of the reason I am considering selling the 95 is that I spend way too much time getting it just right. My son has a friend with a 2005 Audi - sadly according to my son, my 15 year old car is in better shape than that Audi.

But it is becoming a time killer and I would like something that doesn't eat my time at this point in my life.

I just don't know enough about the Bangle'd 525/8 to say that is the way to go.

[Mordan]

But it is becoming a time killer and I would like something that doesn't eat my time at this point in my life.


That's a perfectly fair point. An old car does indeed requires some time. That's why IMO you need at least 2 cars. One is being repaired while the other is driven. -> vice-versa.
like that you can take your time doing the upgrades.

But I still think you could get a maintenance free car for much less than 22k and that new e60 is not maintenance free either. Could be a money pit as well. Yet indeed for a 30k miles kinda new BMW, I understand the dilemma :)

[Tiger]

It is always cheaper to keep old car running than to buy new or newer car. Yahoo has a great article about 'when to upgrade'... Basically, they are saying... if you car is worth $2K and for some reason you have to spend $1.5K on repair... The only damage to your wallet is $1.5K plus fuel and insurance.

When you buy a new car, say you got a loan plus insurance plus fuel... The annual cost became like $6K per year compared to only $2.5K per year assuming you spend same amount next year on repair.

That's an extra $3.5K for your budget use. Now if you buy this car... $22.5K already drained out. However... since you bought that car at wholesale cost... The car is worth at least $29K... you could drive it a year and sell it for profit or drive it until it becomes breakeven... I believe this is what your brother is doing and the end result is zero cost of ownership.

[genphreak]

Hmm. An e34 is very reliable once all the wear and likely failure items are taken care of (for a 15+ yo car that is always a lot). However how far down the road are you already? I advise my neighbour, now he has new brakes, little bits fixed and the car running right, to buy a spare auto trans 4HP22EH and keep it in his garage as they are so cheap- he got one for $50. He's got no worrries now, and lots of spares.

[Tiger]

$50 tranny? Does it work?

I agree... E34 is pretty low cost vehicle to own and maintain. It is very reliable. The only problem I have with it is thrust arm bushing... but both time, it is installed by mechanic... This time, I will do the job.

[genphreak]

Yea, when young guys part a car, an auto trans is seldom a keeper.

TABs are best replaced with noisier, less forgiving poly bushes, they never fail and cannot install wrong like the factory bushes that require a very proper procedure that few mechanics get right ;)

[Mordan]

The car is worth at least $29K... you could drive it a year and sell it for profit or drive it until it becomes breakeven... I believe this is what your brother is doing and the end result is zero cost of ownership.

Hmm I beg to disagree about reselling it at 29K. Look... the car market is saturated. Cars are everywhere. Residual values are plummeting. Car are Overproduced. I'm not sure anyone will want to spend that much money for a third hand car in 1 years' time.
The economic recovery is not a given. I was shocked to hear you could buy a brand new car for 6999euros with all the government rebates and eco bonuses and what not. plus that's not counting the rebate for reselling your old car. No wonder I bought my E36 dirt cheap (2000 euros) with 30 000k miles.
I see very bad times indeed for the car industry. They currently are on life support with gov measures. Add to that we have more and more DIYers thx to the Internet.
They will only be saved if electric cars really make inroads in cost effectiveness, which won't happen soon.

[Tiger]

I looked at current market... $29K is about the lowest price for a car still under warranty. Most dealer prices are still up in high $30's. US and European car market are not the same. I know BMWs are far cheaper in Europe than in USA and lots of options and classes.

I didn't say buy and sell right away... but he can do that if he wants to. Car is under warranty and no one will care about how many owners. Euro people are more cost concious when it comes to car... fuel, taxes and all sorts of fee related to cars. In US, we don't have that kind of concern.

Fuel is alot cheaper. We don't have tax based on mileage or size of the car... only small registration fee. We don't have expensive inspection fee/tax. We do have typical car sale tax and probably still cheaper than Euro. I am not sure about insurance... I think it is on a par.

[Mordan]

Fuel is alot cheaper. We don't have tax based on mileage or size of the car... only small registration fee. We don't have expensive inspection fee/tax. We do have typical car sale tax and probably still cheaper than Euro. I am not sure about insurance... I think it is on a par.

indeed sorry. a BMW in the US is a total different market.

you are right.

then it is a BUY :)

[Scott C]

It is always cheaper to keep old car running than to buy new or newer car. Yahoo has a great article about 'when to upgrade'... Basically, they are saying... if you car is worth $2K and for some reason you have to spend $1.5K on repair... The only damage to your wallet is $1.5K plus fuel and insurance.

When you buy a new car, say you got a loan plus insurance plus fuel... The annual cost became like $6K per year compared to only $2.5K per year assuming you spend same amount next year on repair.

That's an extra $3.5K for your budget use. Now if you buy this car... $22.5K already drained out. However... since you bought that car at wholesale cost... The car is worth at least $29K... you could drive it a year and sell it for profit or drive it until it becomes breakeven... I believe this is what your brother is doing and the end result is zero cost of ownership.

You are absolutely correct - that is what he is doing and he has made out quite well. He sells the cars once out of warranty and really it does not cost him much out of his pocket.

[philbyil]

Scott
Providing the bodywork is good, the interior is nice and it's running well, keep the car mate :) !
The GQ is still running like a champ (27mpg avge on trips!), looks new and why the hell would I get another car. Even though I am spending money on preventative maintenance, it is still way cheaper than a new car, I know what to do and when to do it and, more importantly, I am still thousands of dollars up!

[Scott C]

I went for the 2007, 13K miles, silver with tan
Not sure what to do with the E34, but will likely take some time to see...

[bsell]

Just sold mine ('95 525iA) and she went kicking and screaming (had to replace the front shocks due to one leaking). Did not budget for that in the sale price...:(

The replacement ride is scheduled for a mid-week pick up. Yes, it's mini-van time! 2010 Grand Caravan SXT. I can't believe I just typed that but its true.

I hope you have many years of driving bliss with the '07. The '08 I had for almost 1.5 years was one hell of a car (w/ZSP), but the annoyances outweighed the fun, plus I was paying $700/month (w/insurance) to drive almost nowhere (on base mostly).

At least with the van, we can pile in the kids friends and take our turn with shuttling...

Best wishes,

Brian

[Scott C]

Just sold mine ('95 525iA) and she went kicking and screaming (had to replace the front shocks due to one leaking). Did not budget for that in the sale price...:(

The replacement ride is scheduled for a mid-week pick up. Yes, it's mini-van time! 2010 Grand Caravan SXT. I can't believe I just typed that but its true.

I hope you have many years of driving bliss with the '07. The '08 I had for almost 1.5 years was one hell of a car (w/ZSP), but the annoyances outweighed the fun, plus I was paying $700/month (w/insurance) to drive almost nowhere (on base mostly).

At least with the van, we can pile in the kids friends and take our turn with shuttling...

Best wishes,

Brian
I can sympathize with driving the van... But I am past that phase of my life ;)
I wont put many miles on this but it will be fun to drive. I am a bit worried about problems with it but I have done maintenance on my cars since I started driving at 15 (driveway) and a few restorations a long the way.

[Tiger]

13K miles????!!!

[Scott C]

13K miles????!!!


Yes!

It is being shipped up from NC area...

Will take pictures and get it on here as soon as I drive it 50 miles the first hour i get it ;)

Kind of strange buying a car sight unseen - now my second time ;)



Scott

[chamilun]

I've owned a 524td, 94 530i, 2 99 528i, and now a 06 530i.

the e60 is more similar to the e34 than a e39. For anyone who loves their e34, as I once did, give the e60 a shot. Im still not too keen on the looks, but the drive is pretty nice

[Tiger]

So... Scott... are you happy with your purchase?

[Scott C]

So... Scott... are you happy with your purchase?


It hasn't made it up here yet! Looks like another 10 days I have to wait.

I am already feeling some sadness driving the 95. I think out of spite it blew a low beam on me (seriously). I drive with my lights on at all times - so the HID bulb failed. I had a spare set and they are in ;) They lasted two years and I can't complain.

Scott

[Tiger]

2 years on HID bulb? Must be a cheap set. I am still running my Philips HID that I bought in 2001.... no problem.

10 days?! I don't know any transporter who takes that long to deliver.

[Scott C]

2 years on HID bulb? Must be a cheap set. I am still running my Philips HID that I bought in 2001.... no problem.

10 days?! I don't know any transporter who takes that long to deliver.

2 years - there were 59$ ebay specials - but when my car ignition is on, the lights are on. I actually put a relay in near the headlight switch to shut them off when the key is off.

10 days is for the transporter to actually show up to his house. It is only a 1 day trip.

And I am getting anxious now - like getting a new baby - only hopefully cheaper!

Scott

[Scott C]

It hasn't made it up here yet! Looks like another 10 days I have to wait.

I am already feeling some sadness driving the 95. I think out of spite it blew a low beam on me (seriously). I drive with my lights on at all times - so the HID bulb failed. I had a spare set and they are in ;) They lasted two years and I can't complain.

Scott

Well the 10 days became yesterday. This is one awesome car. The one thing I really desired was a heated steering wheel which it has! It does not have the parking sensors, factory HID's, the infrared display or navigation but I am extremely satisfied. It has 14K miles on it and it reflects it although I noticed more wear than I would have expected on the drivers seat belt cloth.
I will post pictures when I get a moment. The tan interior carpets were dirtied just moving the car from the hauler in the rain yesterday. Think I need to put black floormats in to help contain the dirt. I hope I get 10 years out of this car like I did the E34. Power/weight seems the same on my limited drive - Idrive is different.

[nirvana19]

Well the 10 days became yesterday. This is one awesome car. The one thing I really desired was a heated steering wheel which it has! It does not have the parking sensors, factory HID's, the infrared display or navigation but I am extremely satisfied. It has 14K miles on it and it reflects it although I noticed more wear than I would have expected on the drivers seat belt cloth.
I will post pictures when I get a moment. The tan interior carpets were dirtied just moving the car from the hauler in the rain yesterday. Think I need to put black floormats in to help contain the dirt. I hope I get 10 years out of this car like I did the E34. Power/weight seems the same on my limited drive - Idrive is different.

Congratulations on the purchase! I hope you keep your E34 around, the E60 can be a great buy these days given where prices have fallen...most of the problems seem to be in the turbo models (ranging from fuel pumps to oil coolers and turbos). I would be concerned about electronics but I'm optimistic that you'll get your 10 years out of this one!

[Scott C]

Okay, first few days of thought on the E60. Really smooth, more subtle exhaust tone but nice (more sound deadening in car?), handling is really good, brakes are awesome. Probably too much electronic gadgetry and I have a simple version.

Downside - VISIBILITY! I love the E34 visibility, it is almost like driving in a bubble of glass. My E34 still looks good to me... I think I will wait a few months before getting rid of one of these cars...

Scott

[Tiger]

Interesting... I wondered... I feel limited field of vision driving BMW compared to Mercedes... and now you say the new one is even less?

[Scott C]

Interesting... I wondered... I feel limited field of vision driving BMW compared to Mercedes... and now you say the new one is even less?

Oh no question - the E34 I usually keep my seat up to max (and I am 6 foot tall) and get a great view compared to any seat position in the E60 (seat does not go so high).

[Ross]

It's not going to bring a life changing amount of money and the love affair with the new one may be short. I suggest you park the E34 a while until the "newness" wears off the '08 or you are presented with a repair bill.

[Tiger]

Still under warranty... zero repair bill.

[Scott C]

It's not going to bring a life changing amount of money and the love affair with the new one may be short. I suggest you park the E34 a while until the "newness" wears off the '08 or you are presented with a repair bill.


Honestly, the potential for repair bills do scare me (warranty expires in Oct 10 - car was built in 06). I may do what my brother does and dump it then... In the mean time I am going to see what warranty options might be available through BMW.

Scott

[Scott C]

Okay,
Initial one month or so thoughts on the 2007 525...

Seats - not as comfortable as I thought they would be but (I have the bare bones electric with back support).

Blue tooth - a gadget - but it is a nice to have...
Phone integration is pretty good - it detected my LG phone and lets me use its phone book directly.

Driving - what matters most!
The engine sounds the same generally as the E34, which is good!
Brakes - awesome - just like E34. Same nasty dirty pads as on E34.
Handling - in a word - great. The wheels are stock, tires stock continental (not run flat). The rack and pinion (I assume) is very smooth and precise.

What don't I like? The car (at least now) doesn't have the character that the E34 has for what that is worth. There is a lot of cheap plastic inside which seems odd for a 45K (new) car. The seats could be better, the visibility outside is not as good as the E34 but that is partly due to back seat head rests.

One of the reasons I love the E34 so much is the safe feeling I get while driving it - substantial amount of metal surrounding me, great handling and great brakes for avoidance. This car is similar although I don't feel like there is as much metal around me with the 2007 (certainly more airbags).


It is growing on me, my son is driving the E34 for the time being.

Scott

[Mordan]

yea keep your E34 and come back to it in a few month of driving the new one.

The E34 will feel so old but so sweet. You will notice the disavantages of the oldish car but somehow enjoy them.

THat's the feeling I get when I go from my E36 to my E34... so from E60 to E34...

[Jr ///M5]

In the '95 M-sport, I can drive for extended periods of time without having to adjust the seat. Not so with the 530 sport E60. Handling is exact, with active steering and active roll control, but remember the '95 M-sport has the EDC suspension and the lower ratio steering box of the M5, so it too, handles like a race car, but with the smoothness of a regular E34 suspension. On the highway, in 6th gear, the M-sport will want to cruise at 90 without the slightest effort, drop a gear or two and you'll be propelled into the higher triples in the blink of an eye. It came from the factory with a 155 mph speed limiter. The E60 gets there quickly too, but doesn't have as long of legs.
The gadgets are great in the E60. I love the heated steering wheel in the winter, navigation is helpful, although it's distracting, voice command controls everything in the entire car without taking your hands off the wheel and the adaptive xenon headlights are awesome. Not to mention the LED's that are scattered throughout the vehicle to enhance a doorhandle or console at night. An HID upgrade in the M-Sport really helped the poor lighting problem posessed by the E34.
If both sets of keys are laying on the counter, I'll use the M-Sport.....although it's 15 years old, it's like that favorite pair of old jeans. It just feels right.

Enjoy,
Jr

[BMWDriver]

Mine is in need of a paint job. Reading this makes me feel it would be more than worthwhile. Though no big catastrophe yet, I'll settle for some touching up by my own cares until I feel I can dish out the dough.

[genphreak]

Intuitive thread Scott, itss interesting to read your comparisons... best of luck with the eventual decision - and fun in the meantime!

[Scott C]

So, update report!

I did sell the E34... And I miss it but probably not for the reasons anyone expects. I miss the awesome visibility and safe feeling I had in the drivers seat. I miss the character (?) that the car had. Now, after driving the 2007 E60 for the better part of year (and about 7K miles) I bought a '07 328xi. I know, I went to the dark side but damn this 328 car is fun! It handles very well and I smile each and every time I get it in (6 speed manual). It seems to be about the same cabin size as my E34, it just sits much lower. I figure I better do this while I still can - am not getting any younger (50).

Oh yes, anyone getting an E60 5 - good luck with using the Idrive to adjust your vent temp - that is such a crap solution. It really is something I looked for in the 3. My wife is getting the E60 - it is a gorgeous car, I got an awesome deal and it drives like a dream, but it is not the car for me.

Scott
PS the E60 is so wide it is almost uncomfortable, it feels wider than my wife's Odyssey.