Getting ready to remove the 4HP22

[Kibokojoe]

OK guys getting ready to pull the 4HP22 from my sons 91 735i. Kirt Kollear says to pull the tranny, strap it to a pallet and he will have a truck come and pick it up. I have read the Bentley manual and the BMW tech info document what else do I need to know?

1 How high to jack the vehicle to get the tranny to clear with my low profile transmission jack? I have found if you set the rear wheels on ramp stands and then jackup the front and set jackstands on the front swaybar bushings the car is rock steady.

2. What are the size of the torx bolts on the bell housing?

Some things are still a little hazy. Torque converter and drive-plate alignment...As long as you have one of the three edges of the triangle on the drive-plate down and you have the dowel aligned through the torque converter, should they be aligned? Sounds like it is a pain to get the three bolts in the drive-plate in through the little access window in the bottom of the tranny.

Looks like I will need to make an effort to keep the torque converter on the transmission while I lower the tranny. Once the tranny is on the pallet do I remove the torque converter and strap it down separately or do I leave it on the transmission and wire it there?

[Tiger]

You have to drain the ATF from the tranny and torque converter before you ship. I am sure Kirt told you this.

You need female torx socket... buy a cheap set from ebay if you got time... otherwise check with Sears Online to see who has it... highly unlikely to find this socket elsewhere unless you can find a tool truck but be prepared for super high bux if you do so.

Torque converter is bolted to flex plate so you do need to rotate engine to get to the bolts via porthole.

[shogun]

go to Johan's website, he has pulled the tranny from his 735 without a pit, you can see the pics.
The torx on my 4HP24 are of different sizes, not all the same, check on www.realoem.com.
Upper ones have different size/head.

Use a long extension (if possible with small light at the tip to find the torx). I bought round magnets and put them into the sockets.
In case the torx get round, a BIG hammer helps, hit the socket with the extension onto the torx and it will not resist to hold. I used new torx for re-installation.

[whiskychaser]

As a guide, bellhousing on A5S310Z is 38cms top to bottom but you need to add depth of pan to that. Dont know what Bentleys says but for access I took the sump guard and right front wheel off. I recall someone saying you can get at the TC bolts via the starter hole though I never tried it. Shogun's tip about the magnets is a good one - I used a small bit of paper in the socket to make sure the bolt didnt drop out. When you backing the tranny out, you should be able to get long screwdriver in there to lever the TC back so it comes out with the tranny.
Some very good advice on TC installation here:
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/important_torque_converter_insta.htm
While the auto tranny is a big lump, I actually found it easier to fit than a manual because you dont have the splines to worry about

[shogun]

here without pit http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/gearbox_swap/gearbox_swap.html
here we do it more comfortable with pit
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/309930/
as you see, Johan is using the hydraulic jack also to move the transmission. We do the same and use it like a trolley, last week I moved an Alpina E32 B12 5.0 complete exhaust with a hydraulic jack under the car, alone, and fitted it alone. Doable.
Had the car on one side on jack stands

[BigKriss]

I just used a normal 12 point socket and they came off okay. the bolts were not on that tight, but my tranny was off the car when I did it.



You need female torx socket... buy a cheap set from ebay if you got time... otherwise check with Sears Online to see who has it... highly unlikely to find this socket elsewhere unless you can find a tool truck but be prepared for super high bux if you do so.

[Tiger]

Yes, it is possible to take it off with 12 point socket but to tighten will strip that head off. The socket set on ebay is so cheap, it is a moot point not to own a set. I bought the one that said Michigan Industrial... good product.

[Kibokojoe]

Got a Sears about 3 miles from here, going to go tonight and see what they have.

[Kibokojoe]

Picked up a loaner transmission jack, looks like Saturday is the day.

[Kibokojoe]

So thats about 15 inches, I will make sure I have plenty of room. Thanks for the info

[Tiger]

Just set the car high enough for comfortably work on it... When ready to get the tranny out from under the car... raise car as necessary. You don't want car too high and unstable... beside that it is a question of how high you want to reach up from the ground for al the bolts.

[Kibokojoe]

Starting pulling the trans tonight. First thing I noticed is that you can not remove the entire exhaust as it says in the Bentley manual unless you have it on a lift. Had to cut the center muffler bolts to separate it into two pieces. Exhaust is out and everything is stripped down to the point of putting the tranny jack under. So far it has been like clock work.

Question, all documents say to turn the torque converter and remove the three bolts that hold the tc to the plate. How do you get the plate or tc to turn? I am guessing you remove these three bolts through the little square window at the bottom of the bell housing?

[BigKriss]

yes thats right.




Question, all documents say to turn the torque converter and remove the three bolts that hold the tc to the plate. How do you get the plate or tc to turn? I am guessing you remove these three bolts through the little square window at the bottom of the bell housing?

[Bill R.]

Rotate the crank clockwise from the front pulley bolt and take out each converter bolt as it comes around.... I've removed the entire exhaust without using a lift many times. But here in sunny Az rust isn't an issue so it might make my exhaust work a little bit easier...

[Kibokojoe]

Ok then front pulley it is

[Kibokojoe]

Removed the cooling hoses, dipstick, lowered the drive-shaft and hung it on a wire. Had to jack the back-end up so the tires cleared the ramps, shift the trans into neutral so I could spin the drive-shaft and removed the u-joint nuts.

Crows foot wrench on a ratchet is great for removing the cooling hose on the side of the tranny. Plugged all of the holes where the cooling hoses attached. Put the center brace back on for the night. I spun the torque converter and plate using a 36mm socket on the crank pulley. Works nicely. Noticed that the three bolts that attach the tc are accessed from a round hole in the front of the bell-housing and not the square hole on the bottom of the bell-housing.

Should I spray a little paint in both the square and round holes to mark the position of the plate and tc?

I have done this in the past on other projects so that I can rematch components. As long as I just mist it I have never had a problem.

[whiskychaser]

Should I spray a little paint in both the square and round holes to mark the position of the plate and tc?

Sounds like a good idea to me. You get it back exactly as it came out:) You cant be far off dropping it now. Cant get at the electrics socket on mine until the tranny is down a bit but dont forget to disconnect the cable ;)

[genphreak]

Sounds like a good idea to me. You get it back exactly as it came out:) You cant be far off dropping it now. Cant get at the electrics socket on mine until the tranny is down a bit but dont forget to disconnect the cable ;)Crap. All this good fun and no pics... :(

[Kibokojoe]

Yeah I have small hands and was able to reach up in there and remove the electrical connector. It is a tight area. Was wondering if I should remove the fan and shroud. Bentley says to lower trans as far as possible before unbolting bell-housing. Wonder if fan will hit radiator? Last night in my martial arts class I pulled my left hip out of its socket. Kind of hobbling around today. It will be a great day for rolling in and out from under the 7. ;) NOT

[Kibokojoe]

It is such dirty work, would be difficult to take pics and I don't have a camera man standing by :). Maybe on the reassembly when everything is cleaned up.

[whiskychaser]

Drop the back end and you will of course have to chock the front of your cradle so it takes the weight evenly. It makes parting the engine and tranny a bit more complicated - the tranny has to go down and back instead of just back. Get some help or keep your mobile within reach - you dont want to be stuck under it if your hip pops out again!:(

[Tiger]

Fan is so easy to take out... do it. Engine will shift

[genphreak]

It is such dirty work, would be difficult to take pics and I don't have a camera man standing by :). Maybe on the reassembly when everything is cleaned up.Awww yes its easy to take pics of a job well done, but we don't get to feel your progress quite the saem way :( Best of luck, its a torrid job but worth many beers and celebratory pats!

[Tiger]

Or he could just take a stationary boring video... for 8 hours or so worth...

[Kibokojoe]

Tranny is out. Not too bad, had to jack the car up even higher. It is not as heavy as I thought it was going to be. Question. took the torque converter off and drained out the oil. How do you know if the TC is properly seated back on the transmission shaft? I tried to get the TC back on the shaft but I can't tell if it is seated all the way. I have noticed that the shaft on the TC has two ears with corresponding tabs inside the transmission. Are these suppose to interlock?

[whiskychaser]

How do you know if the TC is properly seated back on the transmission shaft?
You might be able to see where the oil seal has run on the TC. If not,
when you first put the TC on the shaft it will probably only go in so far. If you get hold of it and rock it, it will wobble and may even fall off:) Spin it slowly while pushing it in firmly and you will find it goes in further.
You can check its fully seated by putting a piece of wood across the bellhousing flange and measuring back to the TC bolt holes. This should obviously correspond with the dimension from the point the bellhousing meets the engine back to the face of the flex plate.
Hope that makes sense:)

[Kibokojoe]

Sure enough that makes sense. I remember reading that there should be about 1/8" or less of clearance.

[Kibokojoe]

Truck picked up the tranny this evening. Now its up to Kirt to figure out what is wrong. Kirt said he will let me know in a couple days.


You might be able to see where the oil seal has run on the TC. If not,
when you first put the TC on the shaft it will probably only go in so far. If you get hold of it and rock it, it will wobble and may even fall off:) Spin it slowly while pushing it in firmly and you will find it goes in further.
You can check its fully seated by putting a piece of wood across the bellhousing flange and measuring back to the TC bolt holes. This should obviously correspond with the dimension from the point the bellhousing meets the engine back to the face of the flex plate.
Hope that makes sense:)

[Blitzkrieg Bob]

Rotate the crank clockwise from the front pulley bolt and take out each converter bolt as it comes around.... I've removed the entire exhaust without using a lift many times. But here in sunny Az rust isn't an issue so it might make my exhaust work a little bit easier...

the TC bolts can be accessed with ease through the starter hole

[Ferret]

Ugh 4HPXX gearboxes :) my E31 is going into the shop tonight because it's suddenly started pissing ATF on the floor faster than I can refill it. :(

Doing this all by hand reminds me of doing the six speed clutch swap :)
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Ferret101/clutch/IMG_7678Medium.jpg

[whiskychaser]

Ugh 4HPXX gearboxes :) my E31 is going into the shop tonight because it's suddenly started pissing ATF on the floor faster than I can refill it. :(

TC oil seal?

[Ferret]

TC oil seal?

I hope not because I've just sold the car for about £4k to another enthusiast, I'm hoping it's one of the oil cooler lines becuase there's a -lot- of oil coming out of it...

If it's the TC oil seal I'm going to lose at least half of that value because of the rebuild cost :/ no time or space to pull the transmission these days.

[Kibokojoe]

Pulling the tranny is not that bad. Can't do it yourself?

[Ferret]

Pulling the tranny is not that bad. Can't do it yourself?

No time or space, and I don't live where I used to so I'm not rolling around in a sharp gravel carpark doing that again. :(

[Kibokojoe]

Ohhh that gets ugly

[Ferret]

Magically she's all fixed, we were about to tow her off to the indy when a friend of mine insisted on sliding under to have a look.

I wish I had done so earlier - it was just a bolt on one of the oil cooler lines had backed out!

[Kibokojoe]

I love a story with a happy ending

[genphreak]

Sometimes it is that easy... LOL!

[Kibokojoe]

Tranny was received, rebuilt and put on the dyno last night, should hear today on the outcome.

[Ferret]

Tranny was received, rebuilt and put on the dyno last night, should hear today on the outcome.

That's some fast work! o.o

[Kibokojoe]

I guess that is why Kirt is a legion

[genphreak]

Indeed, I fear he may lead a legion of transmen!

[Kibokojoe]

Yes to do as much work as they do so quickly he must have a legion

[Kibokojoe]

Man Kirt is on his game. He has had the tranny on and off the dyno several times changing springs and various components to get it just right. That's what I like to hear. Looks like it will ship Monday. Can't wait.

[whiskychaser]

Yes to do as much work as they do so quickly he must have a legion
Firm in the UK puts them together in less than 5 minutes. Even put it on video so you know how its done;) :
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=51
Dont look at the price unless you are sitting down though!

[Kibokojoe]

Video doesn't show :( Ha on a second try now it does :)

[Kibokojoe]

Wow that is expensive. Kirt says $900 USD at the most for full service including shipping. That includes a TC.

[whiskychaser]

Wow that is expensive. Kirt says $900 USD at the most for full service including shipping. That includes a TC.
A tranny from a breakers would cost about £200 here. A refurb tranny is about £1200 and a TC £200 on top. Thats more than most E34s are worth here. The song 'You guys have all the luck'' comes to mind for some reason:(

[Kibokojoe]

Tranny is back from Kirt. If all goes well should have it back in tonight, but will probably wait until tomorrow to reinstall the exhaust. Boy it is purty :). Talk about clean. My son is doing backflips. Going to try to takes pics as I go.


OK guys getting ready to pull the 4HP22 from my sons 91 735i. Kirt Kollear says to pull the tranny, strap it to a pallet and he will have a truck come and pick it up. I have read the Bentley manual and the BMW tech info document what else do I need to know?

1 How high to jack the vehicle to get the tranny to clear with my low profile transmission jack? I have found if you set the rear wheels on ramp stands and then jackup the front and set jackstands on the front swaybar bushings the car is rock steady.

2. What are the size of the torx bolts on the bell housing?

Some things are still a little hazy. Torque converter and drive-plate alignment...As long as you have one of the three edges of the triangle on the drive-plate down and you have the dowel aligned through the torque converter, should they be aligned? Sounds like it is a pain to get the three bolts in the drive-plate in through the little access window in the bottom of the tranny.

Looks like I will need to make an effort to keep the torque converter on the transmission while I lower the tranny. Once the tranny is on the pallet do I remove the torque converter and strap it down separately or do I leave it on the transmission and wire it there?

[Tiger]

That's great job from Kirt... You won't find someone like him locally who cares about the work.

My valve body still works perfect... 8 or 9 years now. I may have to call him sometime. Some odd thing is going on with the car lately... not sure if it is tranny or engine... so diagnostic work awaits me.

[Kibokojoe]

Cant find the torque setting for the bolts that attach the bell housing to the engine.
There are
(2) 17mm bolts
(4) 13 mm bolts
(5) e10 torx bolts

[Kibokojoe]

Torqued 47 ft/lbs on all the 17mm bolts , 2 on the tranny and 3 on the torque converter to the plate. 31 ft/lbs on the 13mm and torx bolts. I pray this is correct. Can still re-torque them it this is incorrect. Tomorrow I will finish hooking up the plumbing and install the exhaust. I spoke with Kirt and he said the secret to a successful installation is to make sure as you draw up the bell-housing to the engine you do it evenly and frequently spin the torque converter by hand. With the drive-shaft off this was easy. He said you want the torque converter to stay in the transmission until the bell-housing is tighten to the engine. Then you want to check to see if you have about 1/8" clearance between the torque converter and the plate. Once you have insured the clearance then install the three plate to the torque converter bolts. This will pull the torque converter out or away from the transmission and to the converter. Following this process will insure you don't jamb the transmission pump.

[Kibokojoe]

Tranny is in. Shifts like bud-da. Held about 9.5 quarts, baby was thirsty. Son is happy and I am tired. Didn't take a lot of pics but I will post what I have tomorrow. Kirt and his crew did a fantastic job. $1000.00 total for everything including shipping. Not a bad deal. Still don't like the tranny dipstick. It is hard to read, fluid splashes all over the stick. Best success with parking brake on and testing level in neutral with engine running. I guess it is better than the alternative a plug in the side of the tranny and you fill it until it flows over. Who ever thought of that idea :(

[Tiger]

$1000?! Awesome deal! That's too cheap.