OT: Any laptop wizards here?

[whiskychaser]

Have of course sought help on a more appropriate board, but got an answer like 'find out which part is faulty and replace it'. Very constructive. So in the hope somebody can point me in the right direction here goes:
Her Toshibaba Satellite Pro L300-21F 'just stopped working'. Of course its 18 months old so out of warranty. A friend's techie had a quick and somewhat reluctant look and pronounced that either the motherboard or CPU was dead.The power supply light and battery light come on. When you press the power switch, the power light comes on and the fan kicks up. There is a click from the CD drive but I know drives will do that when powered. The hard drive is silent and no lights appear on it. There is no message or display on the screen. I removed the battery, the memory stick, the CD and hard drives and keyboard and still nothing. Not even a beep of protest that the memory or keyboard are missing. I've looked at the board and can see no sign of overheating but I didnt really expect to. I think the guy was right. But how do you tell if its the board or CPU that is at fault? I was told the CPU should get warm but I understand the board switches it on so its like Catch 22? Yes I know it will have to go to a specialist but I love a puzzle and would like to learn something too:D Any ideas and help much appreciated. And apologies for the OT thread

[ss2115]

Hi.
If your getting nothing at all as you say apart from a few clicks and grunts, then it's probably the bios chip because every PC starts on the bios (Basic In Out System) which then tells the system what to start and do.

I say this because the Bios does give you the start up screen - where it says what Hdd its found, to press Delete to enter the Bios and that basic first seen stuff.

The next probable is the CPU and if its gone out in a big way, its possibly holding the power supply down which is why the Bios isn't showing - ie: the equivelent to a short. Sort of like trying to start the car with absolutely everything on that could possibly be on and having nothing left to turn the starter.

Unfortunately, Bios are chips are never replaceable and CPU's in laptops are usually hard soldered to the M/Board and not in a socket (saves room & money).

Have you tried it just on battery without the power supply plugged in? It might be a faulty 240 pwr supply or the pwr section board inside the laptop.
But test the battery first to see if its fully charged. If the 240 Pwr Supply has been faulty for a little while, or the board inside the laptop that handles the different voltages and charging of the battery, the battery might be near flat and give you a false impression that the fault still exists when in fact it could be the 240 pwr supply or its internal pwr board. These usually are replaceable or repairable.
My daughters Acer had a similar problem where the external supply kept dropping out and it would run on battery intermitedly until it flattened. I was able to repair the internal board and get it all up again.

I cannot offer any further advice. Best to see the Toshiba service agent - it might be a common problem that they know how to fix and have the parts for if its not the Bios or CPU chips.

best regards.


Have of course sought help on a more appropriate board, but got an answer like 'find out which part is faulty and replace it'. Very constructive. So in the hope somebody can point me in the right direction here goes:
Her Toshibaba Satellite Pro L300-21F 'just stopped working'. Of course its 18 months old so out of warranty. A friend's techie had a quick and somewhat reluctant look and pronounced that either the motherboard or CPU was dead.The power supply light and battery light come on. When you press the power switch, the power light comes on and the fan kicks up. There is a click from the CD drive but I know drives will do that when powered. The hard drive is silent and no lights appear on it. There is no message or display on the screen. I removed the battery, the memory stick, the CD and hard drives and keyboard and still nothing. Not even a beep of protest that the memory or keyboard are missing. I've looked at the board and can see no sign of overheating but I didnt really expect to. I think the guy was right. But how do you tell if its the board or CPU that is at fault? I was told the CPU should get warm but I understand the board switches it on so its like Catch 22? Yes I know it will have to go to a specialist but I love a puzzle and would like to learn something too:D Any ideas and help much appreciated. And apologies for the OT thread

[whiskychaser]

Many thanks for the prompt and very helpful response!:)
I checked the AC adapter and it is supplying the correct voltage. I substituted a good known one just to make sure. The battery light is showing battery is fully charged. Unfortunately the response with/without the power lead is the same - no display, fan running and a the CD kicks in for a while. I hoped it may be the power board too but this laptop doesnt have a seperate one:(
What you say about the bios makes perfect sense. I expected to get some beeps but it doesnt even appear to be completing the self test. I thought about getting a POST test board. It was very cheap but needed to be connected to both the USB and serial port. Of course this laptop doesnt have a serial port.
Looks like its off to Toshiba. Will report what they have to say. Meanwhile thanks for your help and other members' patience

[Tiger]

I work on computers and laptops. I would say that the memory is dead. If you have another laptop with same memory, swap it and see if it starts up.

From all those noises and movements and lights, I'd say the mobo is fine... I never seen a dead CPU. If the BIOS chip is dead, it would not make any sounds or movement... it would be completely dead.

[BMWDriver]

Bios might come alive without memory installed?

[Tiger]

Nope... dead as doornail without memory

[Kibokojoe]

Bios is in the CPU try the delete key to see if you can enter the bios. If not I would say Mother board ie CPU

[Tiger]

Um... Bios is a chip on the motherboard... not part of CPU.

[sal_park]

Have you tried booting it with an external monitor plugged in ?

[genphreak]

Whisky, if it can't make it to POST (Power On Self Check), it could well be the BIOS or something very low level as others have suggested. BIOS can be re-flashed, but there is a cause for everything- so if power spikes or a quite massive charge of static is not a likely one, think again...

If major componenet failure is the cause, CPU is possible but if the main fan works and it hasn't had a meltdown (PC equivalent of a seized engine), it is unlikely. It is probably most likely the internal ower supply (often an indiviudal circuit dies) - resulting in one of the DC rails going out (not the one running your lights- but maybe one the Hardrive, CPU and other vitals need).

What is most likely is that it has had coke (or coffee or some sugary sweet drinks) split into it, in which case it will be really easy to tell once its apart. My gf did it to my mega$ 17" Macbook when we were last on holiday in France. Luckily she practiced the 2nd principle of safe (mobile) computing: She brought it to me upside down so I was able to rip the battery out before it fried anything. Hah- I didn't think she listened to much I said about anything, but whoa... what a surprise.

That night we managed to drape the pieces over a warm breeze and it dried out with no major damage other than the internal static memory (NVRAM) being 'lost'.

With liquid going in there and any form of power connected, one barely has seconds to act. And what do you know, years later, the MacBook still works hard for me every day... and we're still together :)

I hope you have even better luck with that one!

[Ferret]

Have you tried booting it with an external monitor plugged in ?

+1, this would be my first port of call, and the simplest thing to check.

The most fragile component of any laptop is the screen, and the cabling that runs through the hinges.

If the fan is spinning up, -something- is working, the power management on the board is at least doing the right stuff :)

[Tiger]

Great tip! I forgot... on notebook... there is a function to select internal monitor, external monitor or both internal and external. You have to press two keys to do this...

Look for a monitor symbol on keyboard... and note the color of it... and then press the other key... probably a 'fn' key along with that monitor key.

This will determine if your LCD screeen is bad... usually just a backlight module is bad... cheap fix.

[whiskychaser]

Thanks for all they replies guys!!! Did a bit more checking and:
Using an external monitor doesnt work either. You have to toggle FN &F5 to make this work but it made no difference. The keyboard is getting power as the FN light stays steady when you hold the key down. I also get a single flash under the caps lock key when powering up.
I held the laptop screen up to the light and used a torch to test the screen but without success.
I can say nothing has been spilled onto it. The keyboard is spotless and so are both sides of the motherboard
I did blow a tiny bit of dust out of the fan 'exhaust' but the CPU is supposed to have overheat protection I think it should be OK?
I have managed to download both the service and maintenance manuals for the laptop. Strangely, neither says which key to press to get into the bios, which is apparently by 'Insyde H20'. So I've tried ESC, F1, F2 and del without success.
Next step I think is going to be try some different memory. It wont break the bank. If it works then great, if not it will increase whats already there.
Any more hints please let me know. Thanks again for the help.:)

[Rick L]

Have you tried hard reset? For most laptops, unplug battery and A/C adapter and press power button for 5 seconds. This usually works when there is no power light on from laptop but you did say you were getting power light. How many memory sticks do you have on your laptop? Most laptops have 2 slots and you might have two sticks. If so, take one of them out and see if your computer post. Also, try swapping memory if the first stick fails. Another thing you can try that wasn't listed what you already did is to take out wireless card. Either bad cpu or motherboard will have the same symptom but hope that isn't the case...

[Tiger]

It got to be the memory. Your motherboard is fine... your CPU is fine or otherwise you don't even get any light.

The Monitor test means you are still not getting booted up...

Memory is the fix... let us know!

[whiskychaser]

Have you tried hard reset? For most laptops, unplug battery and A/C adapter and press power button for 5 seconds. This usually works when there is no power light on from laptop but you did say you were getting power light. How many memory sticks do you have on your laptop? Most laptops have 2 slots and you might have two sticks. If so, take one of them out and see if your computer post. Also, try swapping memory if the first stick fails. Another thing you can try that wasn't listed what you already did is to take out wireless card. Either bad cpu or motherboard will have the same symptom but hope that isn't the case...
Thanks Rick. I heard about the hard reset and tried it for 30 seconds. No joy. The laptop has 2GB 800MHz on one stick. My Dell Latitude has the DDRII sticks but only runs at 533MHz. I dont really want to rob it anyway - it was hard getting a laptop with a com port. Without it I cant do diagnostics on my car;) I tried swapping the stick from one slot to the other but no difference. I took out the wireless 'card' too. About the only thing I didnt remove was the MDC card because the connector was that fine I thought I'd pull the wires out of it.
Tiger, going to take the plunge and get some more memory. Will of course let you all know how it goes.

[whiskychaser]

Had a rethink about installing new memory - maybe that would get fried too if there was a fault elsewhere? Found a Toshiba authorised repair centre not too far away and she took her laptop in today. The good news is that it needs a new thermal pad. Only costs £3. The bad news is they say it also needs a new cpu and motherboard. They are £579 fitted:( I didnt bother asking if that included VAT

[Tiger]

That's too bad. I find it hard to believe everything fried. If that is so, there would be zero power and zero light.

I have never seen memory get fried by motherboard... I have seen memory go bad but new memory works fine in that same computer afterward.

Do me a favor... stick that memory from the Toshiba into the Dell you got... if the Toshiba memory is good, it would bump up the memory in the Dell... I recall you said it is same type of memory. Only takes 3 minutes to do.

I still think that computer is still good.... If the CPU and mobo is shot, the laptop smell like a burnt electronic... smell it from the exhaust vent.

[Tiger]

If you still think the computer is dead... I'd like to have it... I'll pay for the shipping across the pond if reasonable.

[whiskychaser]

That's too bad. I find it hard to believe everything fried. If that is so, there would be zero power and zero light.

I have never seen memory get fried by motherboard... I have seen memory go bad but new memory works fine in that same computer afterward.

Do me a favor... stick that memory from the Toshiba into the Dell you got... if the Toshiba memory is good, it would bump up the memory in the Dell... I recall you said it is same type of memory. Only takes 3 minutes to do.

I still think that computer is still good.... If the CPU and mobo is shot, the laptop smell like a burnt electronic... smell it from the exhaust vent.

TBH I found it hard to believe it was all fried too. I found out that while the memory is the same, the max per slot my Dell can take is 1GB. Of course hers has to be a 2GB stick:-( There is no smell or evidence of burning at all. I used to repair radios and imagine the smell would be the same. My mate in IT just rang to complain I jinxed him. His partner's Dell laptop got hot and presents exactly the same symptoms - its dead. So unless we can come up with a cunning plan you might end up with two laptops in the post:D

[Tiger]

I am wondering if your power supply is bad... take a reading off it... and see if it match the spec on the label.

[ss2115]

Sounds to me like the Toshiba service centre are just covering their bases by recommending a complete replacement - they probably spent 5 minutes looking at it, said "don't know - replace the motherboard".
Or the bios has gone and they replace the whole board as desoldering and resoldering is too difficult. Its a throw away society these days.

I'd be looking at the power supply board myself otherwise. They usually are a seperate small board located close to or directly at the power in socket. You can often pick them up on eBay or there are some online laptop parts outlets.

Oh - and try F12 as another way to get into the Bios. Late model toshiba's use F12, so maybe yours does as well.

[whiskychaser]

Thanks guys. Think I mentioned I tried a different power supply but I checked it anyway. It was giving 19.3Vdc and spec on label says 19Vdc. There isnt a seperate power supply board inside the laptop - the lead from the socket goes directly to the motherboard. Will try the F12 key when we get the laptop back. SS2115 you may have a good point about them covering bases - this isnt a small shop but a large concern which probably deals more with business clients who maybe can afford it.

[Ferret]

Thanks guys. Think I mentioned I tried a different power supply but I checked it anyway. It was giving 19.3Vdc and spec on label says 19Vdc. There isnt a seperate power supply board inside the laptop - the lead from the socket goes directly to the motherboard. Will try the F12 key when we get the laptop back. SS2115 you may have a good point about them covering bases - this isnt a small shop but a large concern which probably deals more with business clients who maybe can afford it.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that the power management on a laptop is separate from the actual primary cpu and most of the motherboard. When you hit the power button and everything turns on, it's the power management chunk of the motherboard which has a separate latch controller that's doing that. The rest of the motherboard should then come up and your bios should start.

Things like your CD drive will spin up because they're running their own power on self test. The CPU fan will spin up because there's nothing currently running to control it yet, so it's default state is normally full power. This one's quite evident on server hardware, punch the power button on server kit and you'll be deafened by every fan spinning up to full power - as soon as the bios starts (after the ECC ram has been tinkered with) and grabs the power management they all spin back down to reasonable levels again.

When (if) the bios starts, it then takes over the power control until the OS boots, at which point the bios is no longer used by the OS anway. These days it's only job is to configure bits at startup in the controllers as to speed and on/off status.

Disks and peripherals stopped being bios accessed (other than at boot time) a long time ago as they just can't handle the addressing any more.

[factus6]

I gave this thread a quick read but from what i can tell you are not getting any video.

The video bios boots up first then the system bios, and since the video card is integrated on a toshiba laptop I would think it is the motherboard that is the culprit.

[Rick L]

By the way... What model Toshiba laptop do you have?


Thanks guys. Think I mentioned I tried a different power supply but I checked it anyway. It was giving 19.3Vdc and spec on label says 19Vdc. There isnt a seperate power supply board inside the laptop - the lead from the socket goes directly to the motherboard. Will try the F12 key when we get the laptop back. SS2115 you may have a good point about them covering bases - this isnt a small shop but a large concern which probably deals more with business clients who maybe can afford it.

[Tiger]

Video card also share memory from the laptop mobo memory... so if the memory is bad, no display either.

You can plug a display card into desktop computer... and remove the memory out of the mobo sockets... computer will NOT boot.

[Tiger]

So Whiskychaser... you don't even want to entertain swapping out the memory? Just to check?

[whiskychaser]

Got the laptop back. Tried the F12 key and still nothing. From what you guys say, the power and video are both on the motherboard. But I doubt I can find out what voltages I need on pin x of chip ABC etc to check them out. The model is Satellite Pro L300-21F if anybody knows;)
Tiger, I got tied up last weekend but will make time to get some new memory for it on Saturday.
Appreciate all the help!:)

[whiskychaser]

The bad news is I got some new memory and it made no difference:( As a last resort I rang Toshiba to see if I could persuade them to do something. They said they couldnt help as the laptop was out of warranty but suggested I mention the 'Sale of Goods Act 1994' at the place the laptop was bought. This is a piece of legislation which says an item must be fit for purpose and the finish and durability must be what a 'reasonable person' would expect. I asked Toshiba how long they expected a laptop would last and they said six years. This one is only 16 months old. BUT its a replacement supplied by our insurers after a flood. (No it wasnt my plumbing!) So I contacted the insurers - I dont even have a policy with them any more - and quoted the said Act. Not only did they not laugh, but they are getting a courier to pick up the laptop tomorrow and are having it examined by their techies with a view to repair or replacement!:) I am amazed. Will of course post the outcome

[Tiger]

Fantastic! That's some great law that you guys at UK has...

[whiskychaser]

Fantastic! That's some great law that you guys at UK has...
Its the only one I've ever heard of that contains the phrase 'reasonable person'. Its hard to quantify though. Who is a reasonable person? I could have asked my mates but I thought it might be more convincing if I asked the manufacturer. I wont think its resolved until I get the laptop fixed or a new one on my doorstep. First job I did between school and college was working down the nick. Maybe that made me naturally suspicious

[Tiger]

Mmm... must be a UK lingo... what is 'nick'?

[whiskychaser]

Mmm... must be a UK lingo... what is 'nick'?
Apologies. Nick is police station. Between leaving school and going to uni I worked in one. Long time ago. Probably not allowed now. But the training came in handy. To this day I time and date phone calls. Like at 1100hrs 9.3.09 my insurance company offered chocolate. No it doesnt say that, it says item obsolete...:D Time for another eye test

[Tiger]

Lol

[genphreak]

Cool!

Westminster law is full of the term reasonable when it comes to exercising judgment- it is how the onus is placed on the parties to avoid playing dumb or being painful and instead make an effort to solve their own problems without getting a judge to do it for them at (our expense). In many cases of consumer law, a judgement mainly involves establishing what a reasonable person could expect in the plaintiff's situation.

Just goes to show (hopefully) that it is beneficial to know our laws- after all, ignorance is no excuse...

[rickm]

I've had several laptops cook themselves. If they get super hot then the fan for the CPU (usually on the side of the case) has gone. If it's running and you flip it over you should see it through the grating. Blowing compressed air through it can help but sometimes they just go. I've replaced a few, in a couple of instances we've yanked the motherboard and replaced it and the fan if the machine won't boot.

Regardless of what you do remove the hard drive. You can drop it in an external drive case to get the data off...don't toss/sell/give it away as is - remove the drive.

[whiskychaser]

This is turning into a book. I got all the data off the hard drive and the insurance company collected the laptop. They rang me today to say their repair people had put in some new memory and it booted up to Windows!!! They reckon the old memory was damaged by a power surge. I asked how they knew it was down to a power surge and if it was, what would stop it happening again but the guy didnt know. They say that as this is a new problem I should refer to my current insurers.
(I checked the manual and there is no mention of using surge protection-it just says plug it into a socket on the wall.)
So to sum up:
I replaced the memory and it didnt work for me.
Toshiba repair centre said it needs a new mobo and processor.
Insurance say its the memory.
Just thought you guys might find this amusing on a dull day;)

[Tiger]

You might have gotten wrong memory. At least the insurance concurred with me.

The surge is not because of the power supply but more likely static charge... yet, I have to say, I have run into alot more memory going bad than mobo going bad.

See if you can get your money back on the memory you bought... say it didn't work.

[whiskychaser]

Epilogue:
Insurance returned laptop. Installed my new memory again only to find it didnt work again. After wtf moment I installed it in the second slot and bingo! Up and running. Its been in daily use for about six weeks and hasnt missed a beat. Wrote to Toshiba's repair centre with a printout from the onboard diagnostics showing all OK. They rang me today asking for my card details so they can give me my money back. (Note to self: write down what I've done - must have forgotten to try the second slot first time round) Full time score: Tiger 1 Toshiba 0

[Tiger]

Lol