Kenwood won't work with existing speaker wire

[Kibokojoe]

My new Kenwood stereo will not work with the existing BMW speaker wire :). Looks like I will need to run all new wiring. I tried using the existing wire but when I turned on the radio it threw a "Protect" warning. Looked up the error message and its says I have a direct short of a speaker wire or that the wire is touching the chassis. Ha BMW uses the chassis for the negative on the speaker wires.

[whiskychaser]

I have a Kenwood cd player/radio in mine. (Somewhere along the line the original CD player and amp in the boot disappeared.) All the PO seems to have done is run wires from the CD/radio outputs to a multiconnector behind the left panel in the boot and spliced into it. The wires from there run in pairs to each speaker and def not to ground. You can use a DMM across the pairs of wires and get a click from each speaker.

[Ross]

The early cars have a common ground. There is a way to make it work. Some of the audio geeks should chime in soon.

[Kibokojoe]

What is a DMM? Is this to locate which speaker is which?


I have a Kenwood cd player/radio in mine. (Somewhere along the line the original CD player and amp in the boot disappeared.) All the PO seems to have done is run wires from the CD/radio outputs to a multiconnector behind the left panel in the boot and spliced into it. The wires from there run in pairs to each speaker and def not to ground. You can use a DMM across the pairs of wires and get a click from each speaker.

[Kibokojoe]

Ah yes a digital multi meter. How do I get a click? Do you mean continuity? Guess I will need to look up the schematic for the multiconnector

[whiskychaser]

Ah yes a digital multi meter. How do I get a click? Do you mean continuity? Guess I will need to look up the schematic for the multiconnector
You get an audible click from each speaker if you have the DMM on ohms and connect it across the two wires which supply it. The connector in the boot will have been supplied by the amp originally and has pairs of wires going to each of the speakers. But Ross may have a very good point about the ground on earlier cars. This might be what you are looking for:
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40404
http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Upgrade/Data/Stereo/bmwe34_radio.pdf

[Kibokojoe]

How can I find out if my Kenwood (50watt x 4) will drive all 10 speakers without an amp?

[tim eh?]

How can I find out if my Kenwood (50watt x 4) will drive all 10 speakers without an amp?

What's happening is that each pair (L and R) of the speaker 'grounds' are spliced together inside the factory amp. They are not grounded to the chassis, they run back to the factory HU which somehow compensates for this, but your Kenwood throws an error.

Best solution is to do a factory amp bypass, or use a stock head unit.

If you just want to check the wiring, you can just bypass the amp grounds.

To do this you will still need to run new wires (only for the 4 grounds) to the factory amp and also this diagram.
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6668&stc=1&d=1238671975
Connect the grounds from the Kenwood to RL- FL- RR- and FR- and leave everything else as it is, it should work... i think...

[Kibokojoe]

So all I have to do is keep the BMW amp in place.
Pull four new grounds and connect one to each of the 4 four connectors (green arrow)
So just strip the wire back a little and solder the new grounds in place... or do I remove these from the block connectors so they are no longer connected to the amp?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/groundingbypass.jpg

[ArnZ!]

Search up on bimmerforums for attack eagles bypass amp mod. Really worth the time to gut the factory amp and use the cross-overs.

[tim eh?]

So all I have to do is keep the BMW amp in place.
Pull four new grounds and connect one to each of the 4 four connectors (green arrow)
four new grounds and connect to the appropriate connector (ie FL ground from HU has to go to FL-)... yes the green arrows.



So just strip the wire back a little and solder the new grounds in place... or do I remove these from the block connectors so they are no longer connected to the amp?

I'm not sure if it is necessary but I think you should remove them from the harness - if you are handy with the pin extractor then that is the best way. A female 'bullet connector' will slide right over the connector that is there and it will look very tidy. Pics below are just to give you an idea, you would only have 4 wires connected.
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6655&stc=1&d=1238280638
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6653&stc=1&d=1238280638
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6656&stc=1&d=1238280683


Really worth the time to gut the factory amp and use the cross-overs.
I completely agree with this - it will sound way better. I did it the hard way as you can see above (thread is here (http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41056)) but it works the same.

[Kibokojoe]

Tried bypassing the 4 grounds on the amp. Didn't work, Kenwood through a Protected code again. Looks like I will be pulling new wires for all the speakers. I will route them all to the trunk that way if the Kenwood doesn't have enough to drive them all I can easily install a amp. I have already done this to my sons 7 a couple years ago. Is a nice way to spend the day.

[tim eh?]

That really surprises me - did you disconnect the grounds from the factory amp?

I think you are overlooking the fact that you are going to need a crossover system of some kind to split the audio signal to the appropriate speaker.

[Kibokojoe]

yeap disconnected the grounds from the factory amp. Oh well probably easier to run all new wires and throw in a amp if I need it then to fiddle around with the old wires and amp.

[tim eh?]

The ground bypass really should work but I don't really have anything else to suggest that I haven't already. You won't need an amp but you will need crossovers, that is for sure. Best of luck!

[Kibokojoe]

Started pulling the kick panels off to run new wires and found a a/d/s crossover in the cavity. Ha this thing has a a/d/s upgrade. Now I will need to pull everything to find out what I have. Wonder if this is why I was getting a "protect" code?

[Kibokojoe]

Is an old 320is a/d/s passive crossover. Sounds like I need to jettison this stuff and pick up a 4 channel amp and 6 new speakers.

[Tiger]

That's a great crossover... don't throw them out. Reuse it if you got a pair. However, if you picked up 6 new speakers... they most likely come with crossovers too.

Since you are going to rewire your system, you can use coaxial for rear of the car... and buy a good pair of two way component speakers for the front.... Forget about trying for three way system in front... that speaker in dash is too small for anything.

[Kibokojoe]

So 5.25 for kickers and back panel and I heard that the Pioneer TS-A878 is an excellent replacement on the dash. Door tweeters are out I am assuming. Any recommendations for the kickers and back panel speakers? Need to figure out what 4 channel amp to purchase. I will be running the preamps from the radio to the amp (rca wires) and then running speaker wire from the amp to the speakers

[Kibokojoe]

Oh coax speakers for the rear and two way comp speakers for the kickers?

[Kibokojoe]

Looking at a Pioneer amp GM6400F 600 Watts that should drive all the speakers :) Built in crossover or a Power Acoustik STAX-1600/4 car amplifier
http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=Power+Acoustik+STAX-1600%2F4&modelid=23589866&rt=oa

[Tiger]

I don't know if that fits the dash speaker spot... If I recall long ago... the speaker size is like 2"

The rear deck and kickers are 5.25" but you need to get the type of speakers that has the mounting prongs like the Pioneer... rather than the typical stamped surround or even the current round like subwoofer type mounting plate.

[Tiger]

Yes... Coax in back...

two way component for front.... woofer installed in the kicker, crossover in kicker opening and the tweeter is in the door... just pry out the factory tweeter and epoxy the new tweeter to the position.

Component speakers set comes with passive crossover so you only need to run one wire to the front... unless you want to use factory wires and skip new wiring....

Tweeter wires comes down to the woofer location in the kicker.

[Tiger]

Don't know Stax... cheap and look like junk to me.

Don't know what your budget is... Pioneer looks mediocre...

What type of music do you listen to?

What IC and speaker wires are you planning to install?

[tim eh?]

What kind of HU do you have? It probably already has its own amp in it already. I would try to reuse the a/d/s crossovers with the factory speakers, you are going to need to spend a lot of dough to actually improve on that. And it won't be any easier to install all new stuff I don't think.

[genphreak]

Search for my rants about the factory system, if you have a 10 spk premium system w ADS upgrade, consider reusing the decent parts. Whoever did the equalization, the speaker dsign et al did a great job in the e34 (but forgot a subwoofer). Smooth response, perfect curve for the e34 (once you add a sub).

The let-down is the head unit (who wants an old one anyway) and the stock amplifier. However the wiring is all in situ and a nice new 5-channel amp can directly feed into into the old amp's cross-over section (as the entire car is bi-wired). The results are phenomenal.

Beware, many ppl blow crap about car steroes as perceptions vry a lot. If you wonder about mine, I'll tell you my preferences generally lean towards stereo gear I can't afford driving something that performs as well as timeless classics like B&W 802.3 speakers. That's a tall order, so very few car stereos impress me, boom and tinsel without clarity or a clean response- the ability to deliver a string symphony without bright spots and harmonics is not my thing.

That said, if Pink Floyd and more modern pop is not stage quality, it won't get close either.

[Kibokojoe]

Check every speaker wire today. Found out the wires on the driver side tweeter were crossed. Ran the wires down from the tweeter to the kicker panel area and found out that the original wires in the connector were reversed. Could not believe it. Some one at BMW screwed up. Managed to pop the pins out of one side of the connector and reversed them so they were installed correctly.

I am going to buy a 4 channel amp but don't know which one to buy. I will be running pre-amp rca wires from the radio to the amp and then will use the original speaker wires.

I have a Kenwood KDC-X492 that I will be installing

The a/d/s passive crossovers 320is were not connected to anything but the kicker speakers. These crossovers only have connectors for two speakers. So which two speakers do I hook the crossover to? Low and Mid or Low and High? Don't know and can't find a manual with instructions. I thought the idea was to have all the frequencies divided into three groups Low, Mid and high? So the question is.....Which INPUT wire do I bring into the crossover and then which two speakers do I OUTPUT too? I am guessing input would be the low and output would be to the low and mid. But I am only guessing

Also found out the the dash speaker on the passenger side is broken. Will need to find another probably will contact Denny he is a good source for Bimmer parts.

[Tiger]

Do you have a pair of that A/D/S crossover? If yes, USE THEM! They are one of the best... It is a two way crossover. When you open up that cover, you will see three sets of connections... IN, LOW(MID) and HIGH... high is tweeter and Low(Mid) is kick panel woofer... and use one of the factory wire to the in.

Theoretically, you can use that factory speakers but you are better off with new speakers. I love ADS speakers... they are the best but expensive and no longer made. I think those lines went into Orion... not sure.

Forget the dash speakers... no need for them. Getting a three way crossover will cost alot of money let along three way compoent speaker set.

How much do you want to spend for amp? Interested in used amp or only new amp?

[Kibokojoe]

Here is my crossover. As you can see there is connectors for outputs to two speakers so Low on the left and tweeter on the right...correct? What does the switch do that has the yellow arrow? http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/crossover1.jpg

Secondly here is my input connector on the end of the box. http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/crossover2.jpg

So this is a two way crossover ....ah two speakers ...two way and three speakers three way. I am getting the hang of this lingo :)

Do you have a used amp? I have been looking on craigslist.

[Tiger]

The high pass level is basically if you feel the tweeter is way too bright... you hook up the tweeter negative to the high pass level... which will tame the brightness.

If your factory speakers are fine... I'd just hook it up and see how it sounds... you can save money on a set of speakers...


I do have old amps... but I intend to use them... someday... LOL. But I want to find out if you are interested in used stuff... I like used stuff because they are great... you can buy much higher end amp for less money than new amps that doesn't sound good (meaning plain type of sound).

I like Precision Power... they are good... don't be fooled by the low wattage rating... like 25w or 40w... these are true power rating and they are loud. I like the old school like ART series but they still demand alot of money for super old stuff... Old Sedona class are also good. You can get Sedona new on ebay for $150 shipped.

I really prefer the ADS amp... but so slim picking and hard to come by and prices has gone up.

I even looked up an amp I used to own... McIntosh 420M on ebay... HOLY CRUD!!!! got stolen.

[Kibokojoe]

Check out this Kenwood video at Crutchfield. Pretty interesting a bi-amp set up. If this will work I can use the preamps through the new amp to drive the front low and tweeters and then use the subwoofer preamp (the radio amp) to drive the rear low and tweeters with the a/d/s passive crossovers. Need to know the speaker specs to determine if this will work

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=113KAC6404&tp=35782#

[Tiger]

Mmm... fascinating way of doing this without a real active crossover unit.

To do this, you need to make sure that your head unit can support this. Look in your setup manual to see if this is possible.

[genphreak]

Heh, when you said 320is I thought you meant 'out of an e36/e46 touring'... LOL! With the amp, I just use big hefty ones with decent component quality (inside). Most important thing in a car is a stablke power supply, so in the amp that means a nice big powersupply section. Get a five channel so you only need to mount one amp, (even if you don't plan to add a sub yet- you can leave one input/output free for the moment). I use a 70Wx4+150Wx1 (I think) it is large but drives the speakers really cleanly. They are really cheap, it only cost $200, or less.

Just be sure to ground it and run big wires so it gets plenty of current. And fuse it at the battery properly, else you could come back one day to find a smouldering e34, more easily than any of us would care to imagine...