Windows, door locks and sunroof started working

[zalez05]

I was switching out my door handle bracket, lock cylinder and actuator. when I finished they were all working...but then all of a sudden the locks stopped working and windows and sunroof stopped working as well....I checked the window fuse and it was good...Not sure what could have happen...Seems like everything is hooked up fine....Any ideas

Thanks for any help!!!

[genphreak]

That circuit is switchied by the main 50A fuse beside the battery (you may have to remvoe the battery to find it as it is hidden about 8" down the 1/4" red cable beside the battery. Before doing anything, replace this 50A, $3 fuse (ask at an autoshop)- they cause intermittient problems at 10+ years. If its been replaced before, check how well.

Do not inspect, replace- and make sure you use heat shrink (not PVC tape) else it will be a fire hazzard. (One short on that cable will cause the battery to set the back set alight when you least expect it).

If it isn't that, something you've done somewhere else may be triggering the protection relay. Connect to a diagnostics interface, perhaps you need to re-synch the locks- but only if yo have power. If not, you may cause more problems trying to.

Good luck, hope u get it fixed quick

[zalez05]

Thanks a lot for your help!! I am going to check that fuse tomorrow...I think there is an 80a fusable link that could be the culprit as well...but im gonna check them both....

[genphreak]

Oh, these are one and the same sorry- I meant the 80A one... If this ciruit is down the OBC and wipers (low and medium speed- fast will work) will be out too (and the radio if it is still on the normal circuit). Beware, once you start moving it around, if it is old age, it may work again... (for a little while). So beware, as there is no way to repair it without changing it- the resisitance builds back up in the rivetted joints in a very short time.

[shogun]

The general module = GM has an internal electronic reversible overload relay. Translate this which I posted on the German forum. This I posted with regards to windows and sunroff, but same applies to locking:


Fensterheber und SHD:
Es gibt da Prioritaeten wie das ablaeuft in der Beschreibung ZKE.
Das Relais schaltet ab

-wenn laenger als 60 Sekunden ein Strom von ueber 36A oder
wenn laenger als 0.3 Sekunden ein Strom zwischen 36 und 60A oder (Ueberlastung)
-wenn laenger als 0.1 Sekunden ein Strom groesser als 60A fliesst (Kurzschluss)

Um die Laststromkreise TSH/ZV/ZS/FH/SHD sicher vor Ueberlast zu schuetzen, wurde zusaetzlich zur 30A Sicherung eine elektronische (reversible) Stromsicherung eingebaut.
Im GM wird der Spannungsabfall am RM gemessen, und je nach Spannungsabfall (Stromschwelle) unterbricht das Sicherheitsrelais den Laststrom .

Die Abschaltwerte der 30A Sicherung werden dabei nicht erreicht (diese wurden nur dann schmelzen, wenn ein Defekt an der elektronischen Sicherung vorliegt).
Die Ansprechschwelle dieser elektronischen Sicherung ist so gelegt, dass immer vor Ueberlast der angeschlossenen Steuerungen automatisch abgeschaltet wird.
Ein automatisches Wiedereinschalten erfolgt nach 60 Sekunden!!!!
Jedoch nur dann, wenn diese Verbraucher abgeschaltet waren bzw kein Kurzschluss vorliegt.
Ein automatisches Wiedereinschalten kann 6 x erfolgen bei eingeschalteter Kl. 15.
Diese Sperre wird aufgehoben durch Ausschalten der Kl. 15.

Um die Ausloeseschwelle beim gleichzeitigen Einschalten mehrerer Verbraucher nicht zu erreichen, koennen bei der FH-Steuerung gleichzeitig nur 2 gleichzeitig angesteuert werden. Werden mehrere Tasten gleichzeitig betaetigt, so werden nur die zwei ersten Befehle ausgefuehrt.
Sollte bereits bei 2 eingeschalteten FH die Ueberlastgrenze ueberschritten werden, so wird ein FH abgeschaltet. Dabei haben die FH vorne Vorrang.

in brief: 6 times overload for
-wenn laenger als 60 Sekunden ein Strom von ueber 36A oder
wenn laenger als 0.3 Sekunden ein Strom zwischen 36 und 60A oder (Ueberlastung)
-wenn laenger als 0.1 Sekunden ein Strom groesser als 60A fliesst (Kurzschluss)

and the GM switches that function completely off and switches it on when ignition has been switched off once for 60 seconds. Terminal 15.

So you have somehow too much load there sometimes.
See under 10 ZKE
ZKE (http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-zke.htm)

ZKE (http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-zke.htm)

[zalez05]

Im confused...I went to autozone and they said that someone just bypassed the fuse and attached this wire??? Can you tell me what I need to buy??

What does the correct fusible link look like??

They also said that the wire that is attached looked good but the symptoms are exactly what everyone has posted..Window door locks dont work and wipers only on high mode....

[shogun]

wow, that is really thin. and probably dangerous.
On the E32 there are 2
Fusable link photos (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/377728/)
80A and 50A
more pics, as it is so important (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/377948)
here they have a 535 shown BMW E34 Website (http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Fusible_link.htm)
and Shayne already told you this on BB:

You need to buy an 80A fusible link!
Go to a VW dealer's parts counter or a VW parts retailer and ask for an 80A Fusible link. About $1.
If you have a local BMW dealer and insist on the BMW part ask for part number 07119978840. Expect to pay up to $10.
Use a 10mm wrench or socket and loosen the top bolts in your image. Remove the wire and throw it as far as you can. Install the new Link by sliding it under the two bolts. Tighten the bolts. You're done.

Perhaps the wire is there because the 80A fuse was failing. In this case the overload relay my have failed due to inrush current or the general module itself has been damaged. In either case the general module will need to be replaced.

Shayne
525iTA
330iA
----------------------
item 19 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD13&mospid=47408&btnr=61_0549&hg=61&fg=20&hl=162&lang=enUS

[zalez05]

Looks like the 80a fusible link did not work....So Ive been told its the general module and over load relay...But Im not sure what they look like and where they are.....The BMW dealership were not to helpful as they just want me to bring in the car....

They did say that the overlaod relay might be pine green....The the general module, may be classified as a basic module? I cant remember exactly how they have it named....

Does anyone know what relays I have missing?? And where I can get a diagram of what goes where?? And what they control??

Thanks for everyones help!!

[zalez05]

changed the fusible link 80a...switched out he gm and rm from two seperate cars...first a 89 then a 92, no change....changed that 50a under the rear seat....and nothing...any ideas?? There is a post where someone found that a wire under the module was bad...but there are like a million wires under there and how would you remove the whole black piece that holds everything??

Any help would be great...Trying my best to bypass a mechanic..

[genphreak]

Did you check the wiring for oxisation/damage? The two green relays beside the power distribution box can be interchanged I think (if the same part#) so try that. When connecting the battery, the PPR is the one that clicks when you reconnect the battery. Alternately, after a charged battery has been connected for a while, its the one that is warm/hot as I said before.

[genphreak]

Thanks a heap shogun!
Did a text translation and things became a fair bit clearer to me :)


The general module = GM has an internal electronic reversible overload relay. Translate this which I posted on the German forum. This I posted with regards to windows and sunroof, but same applies to locking:
Windows and SHD:
There are priorities, such as the description proceeds in the CCU.

The relay switches off
i. If longer than 60 seconds, a current of about 36A or
if longer than 0.3 seconds, a current between 36 and 60A, or (overloading)
ii. If longer than 0.1 seconds, a current greater than 60A flows (short circuit)

The load circuits, TSH / ZV / journal / FH / SHD can protect themselves from overload, in addition to an electronic fuse 30A (reversible) power backup.
To protect the GM, voltage drop is measured at the RM, and depending on the voltage drop (current threshold) the RM will interrupt the safety relay if the load current exceeds the above figures.

Melt of the 30A fuse will not happen here (it are designed to melt when there is a defect in the electronic security). The threshold of this electronic fuse is positioned so that is always switched off automatically before overload of the connected controllers. (Sounds like a safety fuse that in practice never blows?)

However there is an automatic reset after 60 seconds, but only if consumption is turned off, e.g. no short circuit.

Automatic resetting of 6 can be switched on at x 15th class. This lock is released by switching off the 15th class

Trip level / simultaneous switching of several consumers cannot be achieved at the same time can only be controlled simultaneously in the two FH-control. If several keys are pressed simultaneously, only the first two commands are executed. Should be exceeded already at 2 FH switched the overload limit, so FH is switched off. Here, the FH have priority ahead.

in brief: 6 times overload for
-If longer than 60 seconds, a current of about 36A or
if longer than 0.3 seconds, a current between 36 and 60A, or (overloading)
-If longer than 0.1 seconds, a current greater than 60A flows (short circuit)

GM and the function that switches off completely and switches it on when ignition has been switched off once for 60 seconds. Terminal 15th "
So you have somehow too much load there sometimes. See under 10 ZKE ZKE (http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-zke.htm)

Thanks Shogun, I'm keen to find out about the logic contained here. Your links were very useful. Also, the link referred to by the circuit diagram:

7355

Provided some interesting info to digest. Here is my stunted googlation from DE>En.
10.81 Possible stored error on the input side

Agent tester can be read (temporary or permanent fault), whether by controlling the actuator in the drivers door pin contact (by name AGG Aggregate -) has the conduction path ER 1, VR 1 (Ki 30 Kommand.) switch the voltage. The same is true of the control over the Passenger door / tailgate and the conduction path ER 2, 2nd VR

10.8.2 Megliche stored error on the output side

When lock RZV_ is connected to ground (from GM), the relay contact switches urn, positive voltage is applied to MZV + geiegt and the actuators are controlled (too). Minus side, these over-MZV en masse.

This process is monitored via the D linkage, and R A9, C15, ODP and saved a malfunction (the GM).

Belm is unlocking RZV-to ground (from GM), the relay contact resounds around, plus voltage is set to MVD and the actuators are activated (on).

Minus side, these are about MZV + en mass. This process is through the diode D1, A9, C15 ODP monitored.

If the journal is not inserted, there is the diode D2 minus. If ZS (lncluding ZV) is controlled via RZS (minus the GM), the current flieBt 30 via relay contacts RZV ES + and RZS the journal actuating drives, ie Plus is on the D2 and DZS, where it is monitored accordingly.

10.8.3 Control over the tester (status)

Simulate the input side of the can

- SchioBkontakte VR (Drivers door, Passenger door)
- SchioBkontakte VRZS-Drivers door
- SchioBkontakte VRZS-Passenger door
- the pin contacts (AGG) and ER1 VR1 and
- the pin contacts and ER2 VR2

On the output side, simulate the control of the relay RZV +, RZV be, RZS, and the acknowledgment output QZV
Still trying to figure that last bit (and the red sections above) out. The link Shogun supplied of German pdfs was cool- just need to translate the rest of the pages under section 10 (which means typing it out/OCR'ing- as the pdf is non-text)