Rear suspension noise/klunk 95 e34 525i

[Russell]

Just replaced my beer cans AKA subframe mounts. Handling seems more direct and smoother in corners. Ride seems a little better and more controlled.

However, I still have a 'klunk/thump" which is coming from the rear passsenger side. I thought/hoped the subframe mount replacement would take care of it.

Perhaps my dogbones/pitman arms are worn out again? I did replace them about 125,000 miles ago with Lemforder parts. My rear struts/mounts/bumpstops and springs were replaced about 36,000 miles ago. Rear swaybar links were replaced about 75,000 miles ago.

Any ideas? Search did not reveal anything beyond what I have noted. I need to get under there when temeratures are a bit better.

[Tiger]

How many miles on the car? Dogbones are definitely gone by now. Sway bar links are another one and the last suspect would be your control arm bushings... you didn't think this would need to be changed didn't you? They are rubber bushings.

[JesterE34]

yeah after 125k i'd replace those parts and check the control arms.. and at least check out the sway links. though in my experience the endlinks typically are accompanied by a pop more than a clunk.

[Russell]

How many miles on the car? Dogbones are definitely gone by now. Sway bar links are another one and the last suspect would be your control arm bushings... you didn't think this would need to be changed didn't you? They are rubber bushings.
225,000 on car and 125,000 on the dogbones. replaced swaybar links alsready.

[Russell]

after listening the noise today I would describe the noise as more of a dull thud. Perhaps it is a rear shock mount. Should not be an issue if the three bolts are not too loose and damaged. Opinion?

[JesterE34]

could be the inner rubber in the mount

[Tiger]

My experience with dogbones is clicking and clunking sound when you are turning fast or go up and down the driveway entrance ramps.

You maybe on the right track for the upper strut mount if it is not OE Boge or something like Meyle HD.

[Russell]

My experience with dogbones is clicking and clunking sound when you are turning fast or go up and down the driveway entrance ramps.

You maybe on the right track for the upper strut mount if it is not OE Boge or something like Meyle HD.
I am hearing it mostly on patches of rough road or rough expansion joints. especially when suspension is rather active.

[genphreak]

x2 def upper mount is the first culprit...

[Russell]

WEll, I checked the pitman arms/dogbones with pliers by wiggling them. They were quite loose. The rubber innards appear to worn out. I ordered new lemforders from BMA.

[genphreak]

Dogbones only last a few years for me :) Shock mounts last a fair bit longer. The new Meyle HD ones are reinforced and claim better longevity. Dogbones/Pitman arms don't usually clunk like shock mounts can. Have you actually inspected the shock mounts?

You can remove a wheel and see if you can shake the shock piston near the top to see. Shine a light up won't really help you see them, to do that you need clean hands. Remove the rear seat top cushion, C pillar lights, covers and finally the parcel shelf and rubber shock mount seals/covers to really see them up close. For me, going to all that trouble necessitates having a spare set of new mounts in case they are toast- with all the interior items out of the car, it's a 10min job.

[Russell]

Dogbones only last a few years for me :) Shock mounts last a fair bit longer. The new Meyle HD ones are reinforced and claim better longevity. Dogbones/Pitman arms don't usually clunk like shock mounts can. Have you actually inspected the shock mounts?

You can remove a wheel and see if you can shake the shock piston near the top to see. Shine a light up won't really help you see them, to do that you need clean hands. Remove the rear seat top cushion, C pillar lights, covers and finally the parcel shelf and rubber shock mount seals/covers to really see them up close. For me, going to all that trouble necessitates having a spare set of new mounts in case they are toast- with all the interior items out of the car, it's a 10min job.

Thanks for the advice.
Yep, I suspect the mounts as well. Mine were replaced a couple of years ago with new struts.
So they can be replaced from the top side? That I did not know. Do you recomemnd a source for the shock mounts?

[Tiger]

Shock mount needs strut compressor to change it out.

[Russell]

Shock mount needs strut compressor to change it out.

Thank you, That's what I thought. Apparently I misunderstood genphreak's post.

[genphreak]

Yep. One bolt at the bottom, three at the top once he interior allows access and inspetion (through the rear window) of the shock mount and top nut.

The strut and spring assembly comes out as one. Depending on your spring compressor it can take longer than 10mins, but most are already loose as old springs are invariably sagged so already loose.

If replacing with lowered springs you don't need much compression- if any... IIRC the top nut can be started by hand.

[Russell]

Yep. One bolt at the bottom, three at the top once he interior allows access and inspetion (through the rear window) of the shock mount and top nut.

The strut and spring assembly comes out as one. Depending on your spring compressor it can take longer than 10mins, but most are already loose as old springs are invariably sagged so already loose.

If replacing with lowered springs you don't need much compression- if any... IIRC the top nut can be started by hand.

Thanks, I will put my new dogbones on and recheck for noise. The rear shock mounts have only been in about 36,000 miles. Bad already?

Side note. I may go ahead and recover my faded rear parcel shelf since it it needs to be removed to even check the struts. Tried to buy a new parchement parcel shelf no luck.

[Tiger]

Any good reupholstery shop can reline your rear deck to any way you want.

[Russell]

Any good reupholstery shop can reline your rear deck to any way you want.
Exactly :)

[Russell]

replaced the pitman arms. as I suspected, they were soft but did not have broken seals. The new ones were just a bit firmer. They did not help the thump/clunk sound I hear.

Could it be as simple as the old and stiff winter tread tires on the car? I will soon know as I am removing my winter tires/wheels next week and installing new Michelin Primacy MXV4 H rated tires.

[genphreak]

I know what you mean Russell, I find non-Z/V rated tyres better around town and in the wet (on 15 and 16s). Here in Aus it is technically illegal to fit them though. My favourites are Roadstones (aka Nexen) are good cheapies, high silica and incredible longevity/stickiness/wet weather action.

In 17s I've had good results with Dunlop Sports, Conti Sport or Michelin Primacy XM or LC or Pilot Sport if you want legal/go hard tyres. Kumho Ecstas are available too- not sure if they work well on e34 (the others are amazing though)

[Tiger]

Oh, you mean speed rating below factory installed speed rating. This is same in USA only that the tire shops won't install them for legal liability but if customer were to do this on their own.. they can at their own risk.

The V and Z rated tire quality really varies and what customer really wants. They got them all to cater to all types of customers. Cheapies V/Z tires have extremely hard sidewall and have their own quirks I had a Nexen... long lasting tire but really rough ride... and very noisy at low speed when worn but still quiet at highway speed.

[genphreak]

Oh, you mean speed rating below factory installed speed rating. This is same in USA only that the tire shops won't install them for legal liability but if customer were to do this on their own.. they can at their own risk.

The V and Z rated tire quality really varies and what customer really wants. They got them all to cater to all types of customers. Cheapies V/Z tires have extremely hard sidewall and have their own quirks I had a Nexen... long lasting tire but really rough ride... and very noisy at low speed when worn but still quiet at highway speed.Hhehhehe too true. The Nexens I like are all H16 versions- so are not V or Z rated. I don't drive the car above legal limits so these give a far better ride around town, seem to stick better in all conditions (only my opinion- not a scientific study) and are much cheaper.

[Russell]

Actually after driving a few days on replaced pitman arms, I think they did help some with the noise. The thumping/clunking is less, and seems more of a damped thumping. I think it is now the stiffer winter tires causing the remaining noise. Even so, there are a few small squeaks and rattles to deal with. As you know, the queiter a car becomes, smaller sounds become more obvious. Keeping an old car tight is a tough job. :)

[Russell]

Actually after driving a few days on replaced pitman arms, I think they did help some with the noise. The thumping/clunking is less, and seems more of a damped thumping. I think it is now the stiffer winter tires causing the remaining noise. Even so, there are a few small squeaks and rattles to deal with. As you know, the queiter a car becomes, smaller sounds become more obvious. Keeping an old car tight is a tough job. :)

Just installed 4 new Michelin Primacy mxv4 h rated in stock 205/65rx15. Thunking/clunking is reduced a little more. Next will be to check rear shock mounts, especially the passenger side. Car seems to wander a bit more with these tires. I thinks 33 lbs tire pressure all around is too low.

[Rustam]

what shock absorbers do you have in rear?

i have bilstein sport with eibach and the piston inside the shock absorber hits top of the shock at times giving a thumping sound, on the PASSENGER'S side. it damaged the strut mount and i had to replace it.

[Russell]

Boge stock stocks. I may have said this before, but I repalced them along with mounts about 2 years ago. Have about 30,000 miles on them.

[Rustam]

there is a cross beam, on the passenger's side extending from the dog bone to the differential. is it possible that the trailing arm hits this beam in your case? part 10 here : RealOEM.com * BMW E34 535i REAR AXLE CARRIER (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD23&mospid=47408&btnr=33_0219&hg=33&fg=30)

7759

Also - is anti rattling clip mounted on the brake pad at rear passenger's side?

[Russell]

there is a cross beam, on the passenger's side extending from the dog bone to the differential. is it possible that the trailing arm hits this beam in your case? part 10 here : RealOEM.com * BMW E34 535i REAR AXLE CARRIER (http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HD23&mospid=47408&btnr=33_0219&hg=33&fg=30)

7759

Also - is anti rattling clip mounted on the brake pad at rear passenger's side?

Thanks, will specifically recheck the arm which attaches to the subframe and dogbones. I replaced the subframe bushings/mounts and pitman arms/aka dogbones. The thumping existed before then. No change after repacment.

[Rustam]

Please do not forget that the sway bar transfering motion to the other side would restrain the wheel from dropping quite as far as it would had both rear wheels been off the ground. Only then it is clear whether the trailing arm is in fact able to contact the diagonal beam.

Also - seems my additional question under the picture was missed - "is the anti rattling clip in place on the brake?"