Shogun - Behold a 5 Series Riddle:

[Doktor Bert]

Shogun,

It was suggested I post this and ask for your wisdom:

E-34 Starts Only with GM Removed: - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=706713)

[Doktor Bert]

All fuses, grounds and strap fuses (fuse links) verified and no damaged wires at the LR trunk hinge...

[shogun]

I am not very familiar with the 12/1994 525i, so someone else has to chime in.
To make it easier to read I copied here you problem and eliminated all the other non related small talk from the other forum:

-34 Starts Only with GM Removed:
Decided to split this off my earlier thread. 12/1994 E34 with 'Red Label' DME starts and runs perfectly with GM removed. If GM is installed, car will not crank from the key but can be started by jumping the starter.The Power Sunroof, Power Windows and Power Locks do not work and wipers work only on high speed. I have checked for broken wires at the trunk hinge and all the fuses and everything is good in that respect, including the fuses under the rear seat and at the RF inner fender.When I opened the GM, there are no signs of damage and no odor of burned electrical components. Any suggestions???? The number on the GM I removed from the car is 61 35 8 368 571. Would this be correct for a E34 of this vintage???
I made sure to plug in the GM only after disconnecting the vehicle's battery. This makes no difference.New GM>>>>? Is the 61 35 8 368 571 unit actually a GM, or ZKE or????
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Hi Doc,Firstly, the GM, LKM and the like have no coding functions on the car and are neither chassis specific nor do they require synchronisation with the instrument cluster's coding plug.
The only thing on the car that can be coded would be the EWS code. With the appropriate software tools and cables, the DME's ews code can be written to the EWS module (for ews2 cars) to permit a full startup. I just did this recently using a software developed by a bfc member - its truly sweet.The later E34s with the boosted AGS + EGS auto transmissions could also have these adaptations manually coded by SSS Progman, which is a software. This is not a security function, more an adaptive and flash software upgrade type thing to optimise gearshifts etc.
Finally, the part number that you've mentioned can be found here :
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HB52&mospid=47370&btnr=61_0564&hg=61&fg=25&hl=16
It seems to be something called a "body module". I confess I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps others can enlighten further.

If you goto http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do
...you will find a search engine called "PART NR APPLICATION SEARCH, displayed in red. Input any BMW part number into this field and hit enter. All the cars across time which used that particular part, will show up on the next page (if the part number itself was valid). You can dial down and find the car that most closely resembles yours and click for the detailed sub diagrams. The part you searched for will be highlighted in red in the sub diagram. It is a very useful tool. And as you probably know, you can enter the part number directly into google, into ebay's listings search engine, or into the part number search engines in retailers such as rockauto.com for both pictures, prices, and application information of the part concerned.
I know this doesn't answer your question directly but I hope it helps somehow. And...I vaguely recall reading something similar to your described situation on bimmerforums. Perhaps you could search the E34 forums there ?
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Interesting, and thank you for posting.This is an EWS I car. We installed a Red Label DME and this corrected the no-start condition. Unfortunately we now have a no-crank condition. Once I pull the module out, the car starts and runs perfectly.Interestingly, I have no power locks, power windows, sunroof or lower speed wipers either way....with the module installed or removed.
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Is this of any help (read all the way to the end). Its an obscure E34 no-start issue. A friend of mine found it.http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1584790-Urgent-help-needed-E34-wont-turn-over I've never heard of the general module killing the car. Have you checked out the wiring diagrams, from the electrical troubleshooting manual for your E34's year ? I'm having possible electrical issues as well...
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This is the frustrating part, all my 'hidden' fuses are good....And nobody has heard of a 'no-crank' E34 that will magically start once the GM is removed....I am beginning to suspect the factory BMW alarm system.....at least as far as the no locks/no start thing is concerned, but only time will tell.... Thus far, the door lock sends a signal to the GM which in turn sends the 'OK' signal to the starter immobilization relay (SIR). I can remove and jump the SIR and the engine will crank and start. I can remove the GM (with the SIR in place) and the car will crank and start, so the issue of the door locks not working seems to have a direct bearing on the problem.

Here is the history of the car (as I have been told and taken on faith) for those who have only recently tuned in.

One owner 1995 BMW 525i, flawless inside and out, less than 100,000 miles. Car was taken to a Palm Springs BMW specialty shop for regular service. While on premises, the stock BMW radio was stolen. After that, the car would not crank or start. The owner's gave the car to the shop when they couldn't get it figured out. The top BMW guys in the area all worked on the car without success and the car changed hands several times (being traded or sold) to other BMW 'specialists' over a three year period and no one could figure out why it would neither crank or start.A colleague ended up with the car and asked me to look at it. I discovered that not only was it not cranking from the key, it had no fuel injector output signal from the DME, but had all the required inputs.We installed a 'Red Label '413' DME and the car immediately started and ran by jumping the SIR. I ended up getting the car for practically nothing as I have become intrigued by the issues it has.Further inspection reveals many parts, such as relays have been swapped around and we really don't know the true history of the car, since all of the information given is third and fourth hand.Replacing the missing brake lamp switch turned off the 'Trans Program' indicator and allowed the shift interlock to release. The car runs and drives nicely, but I must figure out how to bring the low/medium speed wipers, power locks, power sunroof and power windows back on line to make it a running/driving car.Oddly enough, I have a new white plastic 'stem' in the shifter but still have no spring function on the shift release lever. Anybody have a breakdown of this section? What 'springs' the shift paddle back into position?Found a couple of small wires in the round underhood connector cut, apparently from some sort of testing....It appears to be wire #7 in the connector, which was cut for the 'Red Label 413' DME, but you should not have to cut wire #7 on a EWS I car, since they do not have a transmitter in the key.Man, the local BMW experts (as I have been told) really screwed this up. Before I can fix the 'probelms' I have to fix their attempts at repairing the car!
Is a '413' DME compatible with the 12/1994 production M50TUB25's VANOS system?
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If memory serves me correctly (which is questionable at best), I think it will work. Your car has EWSI of which I am not too familiar. Which DME do you currently have? does yours have the silver label?If your car has EWSII (which I don't think it does, but not sure - it would have the silver label if so), you can use the 413 red label DME with some wiring modifications.
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12/1994 production 525i had a 'silver label' (bad) DME and I replaced it with a 'red label 413' DME. IIRC VANOS came out in 1992?
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Vanos came out in 93. That's when the 413 red label DME began to be used. According to this, EWSII didn't start until production date 1/95.Again, if it was EWS II, I could walk you through the bypass procedure. Not sure on the EWSI, but for some reason, I seem to recall reading that it is much simpler than with the EWS II.Review the document that I linked and see if that will help you. I haven't read this, but it seems that it may be helpful as well.
The-OFFICIAL-EWS-I-EWS-II-delete-bypass-and-information-thread
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1499812-The-OFFICIAL-EWS-I-EWS-II-delete-bypass-and-information-thread!
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Looks like with EWS-I all you do to disable it is plug-n-play with the '413' DME... Going to try a new GM and see what comes of that. The door locks send the GM a signal and then the GM allows the SIR to activate the starter. If I pull the GM, the car starts, so this sounds reasonable...A/C system and all vents working at 100%. The spark plugs, based on their erosion and incredible .100" gap, appear to be original Bosch, and likely have never been replaced in the car's 90,000 miles of life...
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About the electronics, can we rule out the fusible link here? see: http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Fusible_link.htm
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Yes. They are all verified. Going to swap in a new GM next week....Picked up a #61358368571 GM for $50.00 from a L.A. dismantler. Should have it in a couple of days....

Still haven't found the correct GM (ending in 571) for this car yet, but I am wondering about something and decided to share it with you. I am told that this car's "no start" scenario began after the stereo was stolen. After that event, the car would not crank from the key and would not start even if the starter was jumped.

I installed a Red Label 413 DME and jumped the starter and it fired right up. When I unplugged the GM the car would then start from the key. Even with the GM plugged in, I have no power windows, power sunroof and wipers on high speed only. ALL the fuse links (under seat and RH fender) have been verified, as is the wiring along the trunk hinge and all are in good working order and have continuity.The car also has a BMW Keyless Remote Alarm under the back seat, but I have no remote for it. Unplugging this device changes nothing.Any chance this alarm system could be causing the no crank from the key until I unplug the GM? Think the alarm could be causing this?Where is the 'X493' ground located on this 1995 E34?
Found the ground under LH rear seat. I verified it as intact and clean. I put a fuse in the factory BMW Keyless Remote Alarm System and the red LED in the back of the console blinked once.I wonder if it has been the alarm causing this problem?
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I wonder too, the radio was taken, and the anti-theft may be acting up(in my mind). I would google about the LED, many systems have a set blinking order to let you know of something that may have happened. I have unplugged the entire harness from the BMW Keyless Entry Box and that does nothing. Of course, it might be designed to disable the car if the box is unplugged...
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I never received a remote with this car, so what are my options?

To see if it would make a difference; buy one. Not trying to sound rude but that will be your best bet. In the owners book it tells you how to program it, idk if it gives and led indications, you could check for that.
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Should I now assume that my power window/power lock/sunroof/low-mid speed wiper problems are unrelated to the alarm/no start without GM removed issue? Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am really stumped on this one.Could you reprogram a used remote for this purpose?I'm almost afraid to spend money on the car until I sort some of these big issues out....
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Yes you can program it, the instructions are in the owners book.
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Ya, it's a 12/1994 525i. It has the BMW Keyless Remote System... Behold!I still have no power locks/power windows/power sunroof but it looks good
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[Doktor Bert]

Thanks!!!!!

[genphreak]

Welcome Dr Bert!

Check your crash relay. It is a complex logic module (in a tall relay housing and located in the engine bay fusebox) whose job it is to cause locks to unlock, flashers to trigger, engine to shut down in an emergency impact. Not sure about disabling windows though. The circuits it runs on may help you troubleshoot. If you get a fault in it... maybe it can cause this? (See another of Shogun's tremendous 'proclaimations (http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/3-series-bmw/43135-self-activating-hazzard-flashers.html)' for more info on this)

Not sure, but I think EWS-1 had no DWA module- very hard to find under the back seat between the bulkhead and the footwell carpet?

How much have you troubleshot using the original ECU? Just because the car does not start with it will only make you wonder more. The no fuel or starter relay output is being caused by something. Maybe you should check the 'inclino-meter' in the left trunk quarter panel- is it getting its signal back to the EWS/DWA/Alarm module? Did the thieves steal the rear vision mirror as well as the stereo? I know that they are linked to the alarm- and they may need to be programmed back in.

I've a late 1994 540i at the moment, a wreck from the same generation. Probably EWS-! too, but I need to check. Still drives on 3 wheels. Very probably, it will have common base (body) wiring. I removed the rear vison mirror with the battery connected and the alarm went off. All flashers trigger (Hazard lights). While triggered, I doubt it will start- but it does lock and unlock and I can check adn verify things for you if you need some measurements to compare against.

[Ross]

Do you have 12v at term 5 of the SIR with ign. on? If not the auto trans range switch is open, provided there is power at fuse 17 and wiring intact.
I have studied the wiring diagrams as this is an interesting question. I see no way for the GM to interrupt the starter circuit.
I also suspect your inop. accessories are another fault, perhaps a fusible link failed.
The fact that you've found cut wires and misplaced components tells me you have your work cut out for you. Nothing worse than finding and correcting another's mistakes. I'd begin by testing all the circuits related to the starting system. You are dead meat without a wiring diagram to understand how it all should be.
good luck

[shogun]

wiring diagrams are here E34 (1988 to 1995 5 Series) Wiring Diagrams (http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/)
Info on EWS here

Model: EWS I/EWS II/EWS III/EWS III D
E31/E34/E36/E38/E39/E46/E52/E53
Production Date: All since 1/94
Objectives
After completion of this module you should be able to:
• Explain the differences in the EWS systems.
• List the components that make up the different EWS systems.
• Describe the operation of each system.
• Understand and relate the data exchange sequence between the EWS and DME.
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf#search=

[genphreak]

Also check to see if the unloader relay (under the rear seat, I think), is constantly on. This stops power from going to all the large draw items in the body electronics when the starter motor is running. If it is triggered, it will get hot/warm after ten minutes or so- as well as preventing body equipment from functioning. If it triggered, follow the wiring diagrams to see what can cause that.

[Paul in NZ]

wow this place is still awesome!

[genphreak]

wiring diagrams are here E34 (1988 to 1995 5 Series) Wiring Diagrams (http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/)
Beware, those diagrams are for North American e34, euro versions (or at least those with different equipment fitted (compared to NA spec cars, during their production run) can be different. It might be worth looking on http://www.e34.de (http://www.bmwe34.de) for a diagram that suits euro production if you find things don't work out the way they appear to be documented in Shogun's links.

Again DB, I am more than happy to perform any tests you need on my 10/94 M60 (early EWS, if any (will check)) and 7/95 M50 (Late version EWS-II or III). The M60 won't be around forever though. Both are euro production (well, actually they are technically Australian production versions- but I suspect ours preceded or more likely normally followed UK production as they are also RHD).

[632 Regal]

wow this place is still awesome!

Older folks with older cars wanting to keep the tradition going. I see nothing wrong with this :-)

[genphreak]

Older folks with older cars wanting to keep the tradition going. I see nothing wrong with this :-)

Except that there are so comparatively few Gen-Y'ers with less than 20 posts around rudely demanding plug and pray fixes for everything and it's quintuplet pups.

Oh, was I generalising? Oh no, I was being generationalist?

Oh, I'm sorry. Please accept my kind regrets- and excuse me whilst I go phreak out some hipstaz wid some ol-school prank... like this one, 4FS!

7833

[Barney Paull-Edwards]

Amazing thread!! Without wishing to simplify the problem,I had exactly the same problem on a `95 525TDS which I junked, an annoying little nerd traced the entire trouble to a fusible link by the battery(under rear seat, next to the publicised one, never seen evidence of it before, caused by a cup of java spilt on the window switches. He re-ran it and got a car for three hours work. It had all the faults described,no start unless by jumping terminals on starter, same accessories not working, so maybe the KISS theory even works on Stuttgart's finest.

[genphreak]

Many people inspect the fusible link as part of the troubleshooting process and pronounce it opk as they can measure voltage on both sides and see no visible break. Few replace it even though it is very cheap (it is not easy to get at or see, because It can look ok, but be bad). Most times, this results in intermittent trouble but it can also limit the current flow as well, thus causing weird troubles at strange times.

So obviously, it is the most common root cause, and though it can be the fault, it isn't necessarily.