E36 a4s-270r to a4s-310r swap error

[632 Regal]

E36 a4s-270r to a4s-310r swap trans error light. Trans seems to work right but haven't confirmed due to a wheel bearing issue.

The original trans was 960.18032 RX from 06/96 328i the replacement is 960.17180 MW.
Virtually no information on this issue and I have spent a lot of time trying to figure it out.

The 2 most definitive answers are #1. yes they will swap no issue and #2. no they are not compatible with a variable of #3. reprogramming or flashing the TCU.

Looking through realoem I can't find the specific MW trans so no clue what it is actually from. Closest idea from ebay is 94-95 325 but not according to realoem.

I tried disconnecting the battery with no difference in the dash light.

Anyone have an idea what should be the next step?

[shogun]

Did you also swap the transmission control module/TCU? Not sure if that makes a difference, but could be.
Fluid filled up correctly? https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/BMW+ATF+Service+for+A4S+310R+and+A5S+310Z+automati c+transmissions

[632 Regal]

Fluid is right. The TCU from earlier year is different plus I haven't figured what the MW is from exactly.

[ryan roopnarine]

What's the car doing Jeff? Anything besides the dash light going on?

[whiskychaser]

Not sure if this is going to be of use but I started making a list of GM boxes by letter at some stage. I cannot find the original link but have RX for 328i M52 to 1/97 and MW for 325i M50 9/93 to 9/95. The file electran1.pdf confirms the EGS software versions would be GS 8.34 and GS 4.16 respectively. Doesn't realoem just show the number for reconditioned units i.e. not the original part number?

[632 Regal]

Recon units are essentially the original part number. Same with the TCU. What inside the trans would be different?

[632 Regal]

What's the car doing Jeff? Anything besides the dash light going on?

So far dash light but we haven't driven the car more than about half mile. Talked to one person that said not to drive it until we get the computer issue solved. Whisky posted the software differences below. Not sure if we can go backwards but will look into it.

[Javier]

Jeff, are you sure the replacement transmission is free of bugs? Did you verify the electronics, (Solenoids, sensors and wiring)? What was the problem with the old transmission; were there a dash light also? As you kept the old TCU, is it possible the old trany registered a code in the TCU that needs to be cleared?

[632 Regal]

Javier, not much info on the replacement trans besides it come from a car with a bad engine. I don't know how to test the solenoids or sensors. Trans seems to shift fine and goes into 4th, didn't wait for lockup. The fluid was pretty clean and no burnt smell.

Old trans only had 1st and reverse, totally burnt fluid and yes the dash light was on. I tried to clear the dash light by disconnecting the battery without success. Read that it might need to be reset with a coding/programmer, which would make sense (OBDII) and could be the whole issue with the light.

The thing that bothers me is the place we got the trans said not to drive around without fixing the light issue or could ruin the replacement. Not sure what that's worth but it stuck in my mind. They are the ones that said I will need to reprogram/flash the TCU when I told them the dash light was still on.

[Javier]

I'm not a trany expert, so rely on the info I can find around. The 270 and 310 are about the same, the only difference I’ve seen reported is the maximum torque. The E36 06/96 uses the 270, the E39 same date uses the 310. In you check the ETK, they both use the same electric guts (solenoids, Pressure regulator, wiring, etc). Note both cars have a M52 engine, so the only reason to use a different autobox and TCU should be the Car specifications (weight, Differential ratio, etc.).
I do not believe the issue comes from the TCU setting, as it is adjusted to the car it is in. But have seen contradictory postings on the way TCU holds the error codes. This post
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php/44417-E34-540i-M60-Trans-program-code-what-to-check?highlight=transmission+codes
said the problem with the light was solved resetting the TCU, someone said no self-clearing of trans program code, but there is also who insist that it resets at power on if the fault is no longer perceived by the TCU (note genphreak and wiskychaser contributions). Think someone with documented information can tell us the truth.
I feel it is necessary to read the TCU codes and reset them (Understand that ODBII does not do the job), unfortunately, I have no access to the wiring of the E36 or the A4S270R/310R to develop a basic test for the electric components (no ground faults in the system, reasonable continuity through solenoids and so).

I will be looking around for more info until you report: Problem Solved!

[Javier]

By the way, read that a faulty ABS sensor also lights up the !

You may want to take a look at this post:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=530265

[whiskychaser]

Javier probably has it right - read the TCM codes. But IIRC, OP doesn't have the facility to do that so we are looking for a work around? AFIK, a gear symbol on the dash of a 3 series is the same as trans prog on a 5. When you get that, you normally have only one high forward gear and reverse. But in this case it seems to be shifting up to 4 fine. Or have I misunderstood?

[ryan roopnarine]

One quick thing worth mentioning...
Is the replacement TCU properly bolted to the chassis? I had a problem with the e34 instantly lighting up a trans program when the transmission computer was simply sitting on the floor next to the hole that it was supposed to be in. Connecting a jumper cable from the case of the computer to the chassis hole where it was supposed to be solved the problem.

Is the car OBDII? Have you had a chance to put even a rudimentary scanner on it?

Additionally--I know you may not want to hear this, but if a basic OBD scan doesn't help, it may be time to arrange for someone to hook the secret decoder ring up to the car. I would have driven myself batshit insane trying to figure out what was going on when I swapped the 36 transmission into the 34 if I didn't eventually have someone put a snapon scanner onto the car. Your problem might be as simple as a safety sensor or interlock that you might need to bypass with a piece of wire.

[whiskychaser]

it may be time to arrange for someone to hook the secret decoder ring up to the car.
OK, DIS was not easy to get hold of or install. So what is this secret decoder?

[632 Regal]

Javier probably has it right - read the TCM codes. But IIRC, OP doesn't have the facility to do that so we are looking for a work around? AFIK, a gear symbol on the dash of a 3 series is the same as trans prog on a 5. When you get that, you normally have only one high forward gear and reverse. But in this case it seems to be shifting up to 4 fine. Or have I misunderstood?

Seems to shift fine, has not gone into limp mode. I'm looking into getting a cable for the under hood connector and see if I can see any codes. The connector under the dash only stores emission related errors, wont access anything else. I believe this was the first year with OBDII and full diagnostics is accessed with the connector under the hood. This 96 is a changeover year and there could possibly be 2 different scenereos with the TCU storing or not storing codes. The PA Soft will not state that it works on a 96 while I have read that it does work on 96 E36...

Let me read up on the links posted. Not sure but I think there was a brake light or something, have to hook up the battery and check.

[whiskychaser]

Seems to shift fine, has not gone into limp mode. I'm looking into getting a cable for the under hood connector and see if I can see any codes. The connector under the dash only stores emission related errors, wont access anything else. I believe this was the first year with OBDII and full diagnostics is accessed with the connector under the hood. This 96 is a changeover year and there could possibly be 2 different scenereos with the TCU storing or not storing codes. The PA Soft will not state that it works on a 96 while I have read that it does work on 96 E36...

Let me rear up on the links posted. Not sure but I think there was a brake light or something, have to hook up the battery and check.
I think you are spot on - you need the connector under the hood not the one under the dash. I don't understand how you can get all forward gears with the gear symbol showing though. I thought that was the same as trans prog?

[632 Regal]

I think you are spot on - you need the connector under the hood not the one under the dash. I don't understand how you can get all forward gears with the gear symbol showing though. I thought that was the same as trans prog?

It is the same. Some cars stay in limp mode and others shift fine (my case).

This particular year E36 is a mystery due to the mandatory OBDII diagnostics, I think some are fully integrated to the under dash plug while this one isn't. I remember posting that I wanted to try and clear the trans code before replacing the trans, from what I read back then the TCU had to be cleared for the light to go out and the trans to work right... on other '96s the light goes out when the problem is fixed. There is nothing real clear in regards to the '96 TCUs which is why I'm beating my head on a wall so often lol.

I think that I am over thinking this whole thing and have to figure out a way to clear the TCU codes and go from there as I should have months ago. As far as readers and connecting plugs I know I have to get the 20 pin round plug to the under dash type plug. Maybe the cheap reader I do have can read the other systems and clear the code, it did clear the emission related errors. If not I will need to deal with software programs and readers such as PASOFT or INPA, looking again the whole PASOFT deal with cables looks to be around $30 USD on thabay... I think this will be the next step.

Interesting in reading the above links the conflicts in peoples experiences, Luck of the draw lol.

[632 Regal]

I'm not a trany expert, so rely on the info I can find around. The 270 and 310 are about the same, the only difference I’ve seen reported is the maximum torque. The E36 06/96 uses the 270, the E39 same date uses the 310. In you check the ETK, they both use the same electric guts (solenoids, Pressure regulator, wiring, etc). Note both cars have a M52 engine, so the only reason to use a different autobox and TCU should be the Car specifications (weight, Differential ratio, etc.).
I do not believe the issue comes from the TCU setting, as it is adjusted to the car it is in. But have seen contradictory postings on the way TCU holds the error codes. This post
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/showthread.php/44417-E34-540i-M60-Trans-program-code-what-to-check?highlight=transmission+codes
said the problem with the light was solved resetting the TCU, someone said no self-clearing of trans program code, but there is also who insist that it resets at power on if the fault is no longer perceived by the TCU (note genphreak and wiskychaser contributions). Think someone with documented information can tell us the truth.
I feel it is necessary to read the TCU codes and reset them (Understand that ODBII does not do the job), unfortunately, I have no access to the wiring of the E36 or the A4S270R/310R to develop a basic test for the electric components (no ground faults in the system, reasonable continuity through solenoids and so).

I will be looking around for more info until you report: Problem Solved!

I have read all the links and more, seems the 96 is a hit or miss vehicle in regards to trans errors and limp mode. Nothing on this year is concrete. It is luck of the draw as mentioned below. Also seems a lot of folks that figure it out don't respond to their fix. This is quite common like my 850 not starting.

[Javier]

Just to feed my curiosity, will this be true?

"i found that you can re-set your transmission when it goes into a safe mode. i was having problems with my 528 not changing gears, i tried putting the ignition in position 2, hold the gas to the floor for 30 seconds, then hold break for 10 seconds, you should hear a click, tur ignition off and then start car. dont know where this trick came from, but i decided to try it before i start spending money troubleshooting, and IT WORKED. i've been driving the last two days shifting like normalhttp://s1.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif"

This guy is supposed to drive a 97 528i, according to the info after the link to bimmerfest.

By the way, may your wheel bearing issue has extended to the ABS sensor?

Javier

PS: So you still have the 850! I remember when you announced the acquisition several years ago.

[whiskychaser]

Just to feed my curiosity, will this be true?

"i found that you can re-set your transmission when it goes into a safe mode. i was having problems with my 528 not changing gears, i tried putting the ignition in position 2, hold the gas to the floor for 30 seconds, then hold break for 10 seconds, you should hear a click, tur ignition off and then start car. dont know where this trick came from, but i decided to try it before i start spending money troubleshooting, and IT WORKED. i've been driving the last two days shifting like normalhttp://s1.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif"

This guy is supposed to drive a 97 528i, according to the info after the link to bimmerfest.

By the way, may your wheel bearing issue has extended to the ABS sensor?

Javier

PS: So you still have the 850! I remember when you announced the acquisition several years ago.

I am not sure how that works :-) I must admit that I have never heard a click when clearing codes. That would seem to imply that there is something mechanical about the process when all you are doing is clearing the fault code memory. My experience is that the TCM only acts on current faults but we are always learning something new. I don't have a wiring diagram for the 325i tranny but compared the '94 525i pinout to the '97 328i:

a.328i plug X7000 88 pin b.525i plug 8500 55 pin
Pin 1 a.Not used b.shift lock solenoid
Pin 2 a.Shift lock b.auto mode signal
Pin 3 a.Solenoid valve 5 b.not used
Pin 4 a.TC clutch b.ignition timing
Pin 5 a.Pressure regulator b.not used

So unless you have the correct loom and TCM, there may be issues. It might be worth mentioning that you can get the gear fault symbol due to a fault in the cluster. But if it wasn't there before the swap it does seem a bit unlikely

[632 Regal]

Javier, I have read that reset more than a few times and will give this a shot. ABS sensor... have to look at this. See a wire going to the area by the bearing but was too dark to really check things out. Not sure what it can sense in that area but it must have a reason for being there. The 850 was sold a couple years back.

Whisky, the connections were plug n play. The fault was on before replacing the trans and has remained on. Will check the above and report back soon as I can.

[whiskychaser]

Javier, I have read that reset more than a few times and will give this a shot. ABS sensor... have to look at this. See a wire going to the area by the bearing but was too dark to really check things out. Not sure what it can sense in that area but it must have a reason for being there. The 850 was sold a couple years back.

Whisky, the connections were plug n play. The fault was on before replacing the trans and has remained on. Will check the above and report back soon as I can.

If the fault was showing before you changed the trans, is it possible it is just a cluster fault as per page 26 here?: www.e38.org/electran1.pdf.

Its about the only explanation I can think of for you being able to get all the gears when the dash is reading limp mode

[632 Regal]

Shift lock solenoid is de-energized.
This is energized.


One indication of this scenario would be a
transmission fault message in the cluster with no transmission faults stored in the
TCM.
So this indicates the TCM stores faults, which may need to be cleared?

Also the ABS sensor cable looks t be fine but I have not pulled it to check resistance. Cold and rainy out there.

[whiskychaser]

This is energized.

One indication of this scenario would be a
transmission fault message in the cluster with no transmission faults stored in the
TCM.
So this indicates the TCM stores faults, which may need to be cleared?



I read that as you can get the fault message in the cluster even if there is nothing wrong with the trans. You can get all gears and I bet your dash display still shows D(drive) and the mode (sport etc). So you are not in limp mode. But it occurs to me that the gear symbol may not just mean you have a trans issue. Could it be that the TCM is picking up a fault from somewhere else, such as the ASC+T? I know the E46 uses one symbol for two different things but I am not familiar with the E36 layout.

[Javier]

Jeff,

These are the wiring diagrams for the E36 328i Transmission control. I wonder about one of the Brake Light Switches in page 2460.2-12, as it reads Pedal Depressed (Test). Note the TCU reads the Accelerator Kick Down switch and as per above, the Break Pedal depressed for testing? This makes the reset procedure feasible.

Due to size limitations, reduced to minimum the attachment, a full set of drawings for the car can be downloaded at:

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1996%20BMW%20318is-c%20-%20320i%20-%20325i-c%20-%20328i-c%20%20Electrical%20Troubleshooting%20Manual.pdf

Should you ever need to debug the electric components of the transmission, just let me know.

Javier8190

PS: It is weird, the manual refers to A4S310R and not A4S270R

[632 Regal]

I read that as you can get the fault message in the cluster even if there is nothing wrong with the trans. You can get all gears and I bet your dash display still shows D(drive) and the mode (sport etc). So you are not in limp mode. But it occurs to me that the gear symbol may not just mean you have a trans issue. Could it be that the TCM is picking up a fault from somewhere else, such as the ASC+T? I know the E46 uses one symbol for two different things but I am not familiar with the E36 layout.

I don't think this car has ASC+T.

On another note the kid we got the car from said he had always drove in manual mode for whatever reason. He only had the car 5 weeks and the new rear tires are worn half way indicating a beating I wouldn't want to an enemy. Perhaps manual mode was the only way the trans worked until complete burn up? The old trans had serious issues so the dash light could have been on before the previous owner indicating a sell fast item...

[632 Regal]

Jeff,

These are the wiring diagrams for the E36 328i Transmission control. I wonder about one of the Brake Light Switches in page 2460.2-12, as it reads Pedal Depressed (Test). Note the TCU reads the Accelerator Kick Down switch and as per above, the Break Pedal depressed for testing? This makes the reset procedure feasible.

Due to size limitations, reduced to minimum the attachment, a full set of drawings for the car can be downloaded at:

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1996%20BMW%20318is-c%20-%20320i%20-%20325i-c%20-%20328i-c%20%20Electrical%20Troubleshooting%20Manual.pdf

Should you ever need to debug the electric components of the transmission, just let me know.

Javier8190

PS: It is weird, the manual refers to A4S310R and not A4S270R

The manual issue should be the same for the 270 and 310. Far as I can tell everything trans related except the torque issue which from the pictures posted the bellhousing is reinforced and might have extra frictions and steel plates. The solenoids seem to have the same part numbers so resistance should not be a factor. I think I need to take care of the basics before I go into the electrical paradox. Too many factors are leaving me weak at this point.

If the weather would break and my son had any interest this should have been done 6 months ago. Sucks working on a car where the owner don't care, this is why I am not rushing into buying tools and equipment. I think the basics will help plus a code re-setter tool. Very discouraged due to lack of interest. I could have used all these funds to help trim out the 530.

[Javier]

Sure I see what you mean, unfortunately, I have two Daughters so never get any help. Be sure to let me know if I can do something for you. Would like to know if the said resetting procedure does something in the TCU. Sure a Code retrieval would help. I Fu... the transmission on my 1992 535i twice and never saw a Trans Program, now you have a working box with a Light on!

[whiskychaser]

Forget the 'gear light' having another meaning. I did a search and it only refers to the trans. BUT I have found a case where the light was on and the trans still worked. Post 19 here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=810239
OK, it is an E46 but I don't see why this cannot apply to an E36. Not sure why the poster wiped the EGS software and reinstalled it when the fault appears to lie with the signal from the ECU. But Javier may well be onto something with the brake light switch

[632 Regal]

Forget the 'gear light' having another meaning. I did a search and it only refers to the trans. BUT I have found a case where the light was on and the trans still worked. Post 19 here: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=810239
OK, it is an E46 but I don't see why this cannot apply to an E36. Not sure why the poster wiped the EGS software and reinstalled it when the fault appears to lie with the signal from the ECU. But Javier may well be onto something with the brake light switch

Seems the new reset "the Javier reboot" is the next step. I will try and see if this does anything later today, quite excited to try it at least. Will read this thread posted and report back in the day.

[632 Regal]

Interesting in that thread a leaky intake boot is mentioned and when replaced the issue was resolved.

Remember when I posted this:
http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8103&d=1410388806

Have not put the new boot on yet, think that is in order next along with the reset procedure.

[632 Regal]

Update. Half shaft on, Brakes on, wheels on, kid not interested past that... Weekend project past 6 months gone awry.

[Javier]

My younger daughter that is learning journalism in the university (No technical skills at all!) would become the perfect mechanic help is a 328i for her is involved. Hope you sort out all the obstacles.

[632 Regal]

Finally went for a test run! I tried the accelerator/brake reset procedure with no luck. I'll re-read on this maybe my procedure is off a bit. The leaky intake didn't make any difference with the light either.

Trans shifts good and also into over drive. Seems a little sluggish into reverse, not sure if this is normal or what.

The thing I don't like with a weekend job that takes more than half a year is you have no idea what else you will need. Tons of little things here and there that should have been replaced many months ago that have nothing to do with the transmission...

[whiskychaser]

Reading between the lines. I imagine that you are pissed off that the actual owner hasn't the same interest that you have. I like puzzles too. But I am not sure my children do. I try to console myself that they don't have to work out how things work.

[Javier]

So guess you need to read the codes on the Transmission Control box.

[whiskychaser]

So guess you need to read the codes on the Transmission Control box.

Are you old enough to remember the song 'There's a hole in the bucket...' ? lol

[632 Regal]

So guess you need to read the codes on the Transmission Control box.

Yes, right back to my original thinking. I can get INPA and the ADS interface, just lacking a laptop with a serial port. They say USB will not work so this might take a little time to work out. Called around and no one knows anything about this on a BMW. This setup will also allow me to play around with the E34, 2 birds one stone thing.

[632 Regal]

Reading between the lines. I imagine that you are pissed off that the actual owner hasn't the same interest that you have. I like puzzles too. But I am not sure my children do. I try to console myself that they don't have to work out how things work.

Once we got to the point of actually driving he has interest. We discovered the new bleeder leaks at the expansion tank due to stripped threads. A $20.00 fix but this should have been taken care of a while back. Dumb stuff like that, and the locks not working, and the seat not un-reclining, and the wipers etc etc lol. The longer it takes the longer he can't drive. At least we know the trans works good and the brakes stop the car.