fixed VANOS w/Beisan's...perfect..est drive... half way through blew head gasket??

[RobPatt]

THink I blew the headgasket.. PLEASE read 'cause I need help!

I bought the parts, tools and did the vanos seal, rattle, and intake cam diaphragm exactly as described over at Beisan.

Everything went like clockwork. It was rather easy, and fun... Again, take your time and follow the directions.. read them three times!

Went for the test drive.

Car started perfect, no check engine lights,.... just my same old instant start eager engine.

Drove really REALLY nice... silky smooth and steady power delivery.. subtle but noticeable.

Went 3 miles, THEN got on interstate... engine temp middle like always.. everything seems great except a hint more power and smoothness.
Kept the windows open to see if I could hear that vanos rattle... it was GONE!

4 miles on the interstate maxed at 85mph and hit rev limiter (auto).. car was perfect, like her old self just much smoother and more pull.
Get off at the exit ramp, loop around to get on the interstate and return home... the onramp she just lost power.... felt like she started missing.

Limped it home at 55mph... thinking the timing "slipped" or something cr azy.
Make it home (I'm 3 miles from the interstate)... pop the hood and there's coolant boiling in my spark plug wells.

AGAIN... temp needle in the middle. I stressed thinking I overtightened something and cracked the head.. except I didn't.
I was METICULOUS about not overtighetning... kept thinking the head is aluminium.. and most of the torque specs were pretty low.

So I"m guessing it's a blown head gasket? There's coolant on my oil dipstick... there's coolant in the spark plug wells.


Questions:
1. Did fixing the VANOS just cause me to blow the head gasket... or just a strange coincidence?
2. How much harder is a 24C DOHC motor than an old chevy V8 (w/o overhead cams?)
3. HOW do I clean out the lower portion of the block? and all the coolant hoses? just FLUSH FLUSH and FLUSH some more?
4. Should I get the head sent out or inspected or whatever?
5. Should I now get new valves, and opt for an M3 cam? ( i have the GM tranny that I think is only good for about 225Hp)
6. What else should I do?

I really don't have time for this... how many hours might a local BMW indy charge me ?

Thank you so much!

[632 Regal]

Sounds like a cracked head if coolant is getting in the plug wells. Cant see how a HG would do that but hope for the best.
Edit: Double check the front by the thermostat cover and water pump.

1. *Shouldn't* (just read through the complete procedure)
2. A newer model chevy V8 with all the crap under the hood and stuffed into a sardine can, I would say your would be easier and take less time.
3. drain, fill with conventional oil. Run it easy and drain, should get most of the coolant out. Don't need to add the full 8 quarts just 6 is fine for the rinse procedure.
4. Absolutely!
5. See what your up against first. Can change the trans to the 310R its stronger than your 270R unless you already have the 310R.

[632 Regal]

4 miles on the interstate maxed at 85mph and hit rev limiter

Wait what? You were cruising 85 at rev limiter rpms for 4 miles?

[RobPatt]

Wait what? You were cruising 85 at rev limiter rpms for 4 miles?


no no... just accelerated, hit top rpm, tranny shifts..... like that until settle into about 85 at about 31-3200 rpm...

then the 4 miles at the 31-3200 rpm till the exit ramp and loop around to get back on interstate going other direction...
it was on the onramp loop that power puttered out and started missing.... (guess it was missing b/c water in the plug wells)

well almost have the head out... just trying to unclip the injectors then pull the intake... then the head.

[632 Regal]

Keep updates, I am very curious what you find.

[RobPatt]

nothing obvious to me.
head out... 7 hours including lunch, labelling and bagging... and way to long to figure out how to unclip the power side of the injectors....
a few pix... any ideas?

have to find a head machine shop around here... biloxi, mississippi... afraid folks will flip on an alu do hc "bmw" head.

HOW HOW HOW to get the cams out? can I use the tech article at pelican parts?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Camshaft-Removal/E36-camshaft-removal.htm

825582568257

[bmwpower]

Coolant in the spark plug holes... All of them?... I would look at the top of the head and see if there is a crack in that vicinity. Take it to a reputable engine place. They will break it down and find the crack.

Did you have it resurfaced last time you took it off?

[whiskychaser]

The Pelican parts method worked fine for me. It says you need two pairs of hands but you can do it on your own. Just don't let the cam twist. The only issue you may have is when you come to reassemble - it is quite difficult to get the first nut started.

I'm also curious to know how you get coolant in the plug wells

[632 Regal]

Looks quite oily, burn a lot?

The injectors should have a clip that needs to be pressed in to pull the plug out. On the ones I couldn't get to I carefully worked the clip off completely then put back on the plug after.

I think your going to be throwing darts to find a reputable machine shop. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=biloxi+missippi+engine

[RobPatt]

it doesn't burn much... never needed to look after that... maybe a quart every 5,000 miles or per change....

talked to the mustang/vette builder hobby guys at work who recommended a guy out in the sticks.

http://www.yellowpages.com/saucier-ms/mip/mcmurtrys-automotive-machine-service-504706656?lid=1000687426473

Took the head and gasket to McMurty's... he said head gasket shows signs of seepage but nothing obvious.
Says head looks good. Only warping is a little high in the center... he said around 7 so I guess that's thousandths?

Someone commented whether the head has been off before and had work... I dont think so.
He's going to shave it a little and somehow pressure test the seals on the valves.

He says he knows all about brittle hollow cams and the secret is to back them off a little by little... I don't know so I'm trusting he doesnt bust my cams taking them off to test the valves.

Worst case there's an S50 head w/90K on it in good condition I have my eye on... i think a good head with some miles may be better for my old bottom end than a newly rebuilt head.

who knows... time to go clean the engine while I wait on "test results"

[RobPatt]

pic of coolant and oil and water in the plug wells. when running it was boiling up... turning to steam...

still stuck at "is it the head or the head gasket?" off to clean things up.

82588259

[632 Regal]

Okay after seeing those pics I think I know whats going on.

Valve cover gasket leak introducing oil upstairs. Secondary idea is there is coolant in the oil, once hot it's steam blowing past your bad valve cover gasket into the plug well along with the oil. Possibly through the stud holes. Was the valve cover gasket fubared? Should take a lot of pressure to do that and a bad head gasket could. But you said nothing obvious. Spark plugs loose?

Is this project new or is it your old regular car that you drive? This all plays towards an answer.

I know you have a leak somewhere letting coolant into the oil...

[RobPatt]

Okay after seeing those pics I think I know whats going on.

Valve cover gasket leak introducing oil upstairs. Secondary idea is there is coolant in the oil, once hot it's steam blowing past your bad valve cover gasket into the plug well along with the oil. Possibly through the stud holes. Was the valve cover gasket fubared? Should take a lot of pressure to do that and a bad head gasket could. But you said nothing obvious. Spark plugs loose?

Is this project new or is it your old regular car that you drive? This all plays towards an answer.

I know you have a leak somewhere letting coolant into the oil...

upstairs meaning into plug wells?
i understand what you mean though on both answers.
cool stuff never thought that much into the path stuff could take, intermixing, etc. but makes sense to me.

vc gasket was newly installed 5 years ago, but only 800 or so miles in that time.
car sat in garage while i had a long commute (bought honda accord for that)
... have a new job locally now... daughter goes to college in the fall... so time to get he bimmer running.
all those 5 years i'd drive it about 20 miles maybe month or every other month.... down 3 miles to interstate... run to next exit, come home.
so i thought i could reuse the vc gasket... ?

plan is this will be my daily driver again... wanted to spruce it up with the leather seats.... vanos fix... etc and keep at least next four years (college bills!)

SO... your theory agrees with the visuals... makes sense to me. Kind of "hope" it's the head gasket since I've torn it all apart.

[632 Regal]

Valve cover gasket *could* explain the spark plug well but not the coolant getting into the oil. Have you found a reputable shop yet?

[RobPatt]

Valve cover gasket *could* explain the spark plug well but not the coolant getting into the oil. Have you found a reputable shop yet?

Yes.. little no advertising place tucked way back on a dead end side street in old part of Biloxi.
Guy is a one man shop.. mid-late 20s... even looks german. has e30s everywhere, some perfectly cherry built... some turbo'd... some trashed... he bulds custom maps with megasquirt.. etc etc... and in his warehouse is an RV which I think he lives in. I'd say it's his life and passion.

So after a really sweet tour of his shop and projects.. we're nowhere. He sees no evidence on the head or gasket.
If I can pull the cams tomorrow I'll take to a machine shop he recommended for some type of dye pressure test he recommended.
Also tonight I'm going to really REALLY check the cylinder walls.. front for water pump clues... etc. etc for clues.

off to pull cams.

THIS video seems REALLY good to pull the cams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnqy-7dT28

But I'm going to review the Pelican Parts article too... and use whicver seems less error prone. (wish me luck)
*edit... they're the same... going for it, except I'm home alone for a while... clean some parts and do it later.

[RobPatt]

Some "silly" questions I need help with... please:

- Which fuel lines coming up from under the car at the brake booster... I've lost track which goes to the front/back ends of the rail. Rather not crank and see spurt.

- Can I reuse the head bolt WASHERS?

- Can I reuse the cylinder head to exhaust manifold studs AND nuts? (most of my studs came out, easily... have not tried to remove the nuts from the studs yet)

- IF I use that "freeze off" nut cracker in a can stuff to take the exhaust nuts off the studs, can I still reuse those items?

- What are the blue and black sensors on the side of the head behind the oil canister?
- Are they troublesome that I should replace while the head is out?

HAD THE HEAD PRSSURE CHECKED/HOT TANKED WHATEVER.... the head is pretty flat.. bowed UP a bit in the middle... shop says maybe shaving of .005 would do it, and roughen up the surface a bit. Should I ? (valves seal good, no cracks!)

Thank you everyone.... continuing the saga of why and the repair. -Rob

[632 Regal]

Sort of off topic, we bought a honda with overheating issues. Everything was replaced and new head gasket. Eventually we had to pull the head again due to carbon buildup under the valve seats causing a miss. Lapped those and just before we put it on I noticed very fine cracks in the cylinder. Apparently the block froze and the pressure pumped between the sleeve and the block. Very interesting.

[RobPatt]

update:

Friday: head checks fine, shaved .005 as it was bowed "fatter" in the middle... valves seat good.
Saturday:
- polished pistons and top of block with a rubber fingered type buffing wheel in the drill... don't know what to call it.
- all the exhaust studs came out of the head w/the nuts...soaked in PB blaster for several days, nothing. headed the copper nuts w/the torch, nothing... heated the nuts again and then put in a tupperware of ice... THEN put in the plastic grip thing for my vice, they came off... buffed studs with wire wheel.
- next up - clean the lifters best I can... reinstall them and the cams.

[632 Regal]

So why is coolant getting in the crankcase?

[RobPatt]

So why is coolant getting in the crankcase?

I wish I knew. several folks have looked at the HG... no signs of failure.. they've shown me what failed ones look like and the signs remaining on the head and/or block... I didn't have any of that.

I'd like to think I didn't screw up the vanos repair/install somehow... but it seems most likely. No clue.
Going to press, button her up when the gaskets, etc come in and triple check everything.

No obvious signs leads me to think I screwed something... don't know what... up.

[632 Regal]

No obvious signs leads me to think I screwed something... don't know what... up.

I can't see how the vanos repair could cause coolant into the oil.

[RobPatt]

Well, I think I've figured it out.

When I did the vanos repair, somehow... I was also removing the airbox. Don't remember why.
And removing the coolant hoses from the aux thermostat, one of the plastic hose nipples broke off.

And.. while removing the valve cover, the breather hose was in really bad shape.
And I traced the breather hose to the metal coupler, where it continues on to the air intake book... this half of the hose was also soaked in oil, completely gummy, and pretty well shot.

With the aux thermostat unusable b/c one hose had no place to connect (nipple broke from the tstat)... I decided to connect both those coolant hoses together.
HOWEVER, after examining my photos (the incorrect install... ) I see that the breather hose from the metal coupling to the air boot... was connected to the coolant line going TO the airbox (that's the coolant line from the head, under the intake manifold.)

So at some point... I guess when the thermostat opened... OR when the VANOS repair was just chillin and great... I got on the gas and the little M50 just sucked down a whole motor full of coolant... right through the breather hose...into top of the valve cover.

****
However.... everything's good now... I think.
Head checked out fine... they shaved .005 off to flatten it out. The gasket didn't blow. Valves seated and sealed perfectly.
So now the head is all clean, cams, in everything timed...

ALL new coolant hoses (one part ordering) (except the ones from the heater valve)... and ALL NEW VACUUM LINES....

And she runs even better than ever!! YES!! Did it all in my garage w/my 12 year old son.. some references (below) and an occasional text message to BMW Biloxi man when I got desperate....

What a learning experience!

Much thanks to this board.... tech articles at Pelican Parts.. the Bentley Manual... and my new buddy here Cory in Biloxi at his little unadvertised 'eMW mecca.

HICCUPS encountered:
- leaned on or against the brake resivour... grommets now leak fluid and need to replace them.
- put the valve cover on... then realised I couldn't get the metal clips on the power clips of the fuel injectors... crap.
(temp workaround, zip ties... since I used aviation gasket and oem vc gasket I wasn't eager to remove the VC...for that in case I had to remove it again due to a timing, lifter, or other issue...)
- took 3 tries to get the stupid (upgraded to metal) t-stat housing seated... I'd fill up with water, and she'd leak out... actually took four if you count that the first time I forgot to put the t-stat in at all.
- intake cam vanos sprocket/shim/diaphragm assmebly nuts.... they're only threaded on the studs to the top of the nut... the stud does NOT extend past the nut. I have the anti-rattle diaphram now... 2mm shim, the diaphram.. then the 4mm shim AND the longer studs and new nuts... but when I tighten the nuts down more, you can't turn the sprockets... I had them oiled up good, etc... so I may need to relook.. perhaps I had the primary tensioner hand tighened TOO tight? or perhaps that's just how the nuts are and I need to go back and put some locktite on them...? Thoughts?
- lifter tick was HORRIBLE... but settled down after about 30 minutes idle... shut off overnight... added 1/2 quart OVER the fill line... then it went away. I was really concerned about this, but seems a non issue now. Have cheap 5w-30 in it because I'll drain and fill soon with good oil if the chocolate milk is gone.

I think that's about it... just followed the procedures, lots of internet research on coolant and vacuum lines...
A BIG MISTAKE on my part....

Enjoy some pics.. Great project, feel really confident about the guts of these motors... and mine was clean to start.. even cleaner now.
Cheers,
Rob.

[RobPatt]

Before.
8265826682678268

[RobPatt]

After.
826982708271827282738274

[RobPatt]

The little scratches on the lifter... just wear from 180K miles... I guess.... I didn't want to spend the $$ on 24 new lifters if I didn't need to.

The scratches on the head surface around the hemi areas... that was my stupid overzealous cleaning with the 3m rubber nubby wheel I used on the block... I didn't realize it was scratching so much and wanted to shoot myself... hoping the copper coat gasket stuff will flow and seal into that area... I put it on the head and on the block side of the head gasket... combined w/a composite gasket... HOPE it holds a good seal.

In the engine bay pic you can also see the new vanos oil line... mine leaked at the lower swage (or whatever you call it ) fitting...

****
Total bill? About $630 for anyone pondering the project or don't have a choice. Breakout roughly:

@ AutohausAz - parts $416
head gasket set $130
head bolts $15
aux thermostat (at airbox) $50
brake booset check valve $35
misc hoses, fittings, exhaust mani nuts, etc.

@ Sears
metric universal socket set 1/4 drive $12
something else for $6

@ Lowes
misc 19 and 32mm wrench, 24 pc metric socket set, 10mm deep socket $50

@ Autozone
Valvoline 5w30 oil, 2 gallons $40
engine degreaser, MAF cleaner, $10
assembly lube $6
VHT engine enamel paint - cast iron color $7
universal socket adapter set 1/4 to 3/8 to 1/2 etc $4
water wetter $8
brake fluid synthetic 2 cans $9 (cuz I busted the grommets)

@ Napa
Brake cleaner
3M rubber nubby for drill to clean block and drill attachment $40
aviation permatex $5
CRC copper coat $5

total approx $630

*******
About all I already had were basic sockets.
A set of 1/4 drive is great for the small stuff 10mm etc in the alu head.
A headlamp (for your head) is awesome to have.
Great overhead lighting in your garage.
Plenty of pans to catch oil, coolant, etc.
Some good music... and a cool garage (no WAY could I have done this in the summer in South Mississippi... it was in the 50s here most days)
Ziplock bags and a marker to label EVERYTHING... impossible otherwise.
Laptop in the garage... CROSS REFERENCING directions from several sources.... Everyone explains things differently.. I guess I'm a little thick headed, so after a few different explainations of the same thing... I was ready to go... and it went without a hitch. PLUS... one person will include a minor nuance that someone else leaves out... so read EVERYTHING.

If you've read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance... remember in the latter pages the part about Gumption Traps. I ran into a few.. but I knew I was getting into them, and knew when it was time to step away, regroup, think clearly.. and a-ha... insight "try it this way"...

Cool stuff.

DOING THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME THE EXPERT.... so don't read as I am. I'm just posting in hopes this can help, or encourage, someone... somehow.

(..remember... I got into all this mess b/c I fixed my vanos, and like a moron connected a coolant line to my breather hose... (at least I think that's what I did)

Cheers and thanks ED for the awesome BIMMER.INFO !!

-Rob.

[whiskychaser]

Have I got this right? You connected the throttle body heater hose to the valve cover? :-( If so, let's skip that one and say you have done a remarkable job of cleaning everything up. When its all back together you can be rightly proud of the work you have put in

[632 Regal]

Fantastic job! I am so relieved that you figured where the coolant came from. When I went over the procedure I just couldn't figure any reason that would explain it. Anyways you did a fine write up and great pictures.

[93 525 Paul]

You...have done a remarkable job of cleaning everything up. When its all back together you can be rightly proud of the work you have put in

Couldn't agree more.

As a guy who made a much simpler and worse mistake and ended up refreshing the M50TU engine and building the tranny, I am happy you stuck it out. I never captured the spirit of zen mechanical repair in any of the posts in my rather long repair thread, but I hope you've read it.

When I first saw your post I could not for the life of me guess what had happened. Very glad you got it sorted and she's back on the road. I totally and completely relived my ordeal reading about yours. Congrats. Good stuff.

[RobPatt]

Thanks for the kind words gentlemen. Paul, yes, I followed your thread and thought of my situation... work, kids, sports, life, etc. Thankfully the E34 was "aside" and could be a bit of a project... And then I had to make a decision to modernize, and probably get a 4 door VW Golf GTI or TDI... or put a little love and money into the BMW. Kids were like "ah dad..." you gotta keep the BMW. So at least for the next few years.. ALTHOUGH I'm really liking several of the E30 M50 swaps in the classifieds here and at r3vlimited... (used to have an 87 325is)

Anyway, a few more questions.
-in the FIRST pic... I broke the vaccum 'nipple' off my brake booster check valve... so I replaced it w/a new one. In the process destroyed the brittle hose that went from it to the manifold. The pressure flows FROM the booster, through the one way valve, into the manifold... I've temporarily replaced it with some scrap coolant hose. QUESTION - do I need a high pressure hose here? If I do... do I also need the upgraded one-time use style hose clamps that were on there?

ALSO... please see my fuel lines running to the metal tubes under the manifold... I had these cheapo hose clamps on hand... are they sufficient?

Thanks...

Only issues left:
- Yesterday she died on me at a light, check engine light came on... restarted and that's it. No CEL, nothing from stomp test.
- The vanos or chain started making a mild grinding sound... I replaced the 2 chain tensioner/guides on the head (while I was in there)... and the spring and "inner sleeve" on the primary tensioner... it wasn't grinding at first... but seems to be coming on... what should I check?
- Today I started smelling fuel... guessing it's an injector leaking from the rail (i pulled one to replace the o-rings, and decided not to mess with the other 5 injectors... there must be an o-ring lube.. man it was hard to press back in.)

THanks and cheers,
Rob.82758276

[shogun]

To push in the injectors use vaseline or lube the O-rings with engine oil. Otherwise it is easy to damage the O-Rings.

[whiskychaser]

My tool of choice for injector 'o' ring lubrication is washing up liquid simply because it dries out. That said, I think it is more likely that the fuel smell is coming from where the rubber hose(s) connect to the fuel rail. The rubber goes brittle and will not seal any more. If that is the case, have a look at realoem. Dealers supply the hose in a 1 meter length for one of the connections. That's enough to do both hoses and probably a mate's car as well :-) You get 2 new shear to torque hose clips which are fun to remove later.

While the tensioner is pretty simple, there is a certain way to install it so it runs correctly on the tensioner arm. IIRC, you fit it loosely by hand and make sure it will not twist. Then you have the joy of pushing against the spring while you try screw the cap in.

[632 Regal]

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8276&d=1425612950

Hose clamp by the orange thing looks to not be in the correct position. Can't see what the blue one is doing.