1995 540i Heater

[Clarksonvalley]

Does anyone have any idea what degree F. of temperature should be coming out of the vents? I replaced the plastic thermostat housing and a metal housing and thought I got all of the air out of the system, but evidently have an air lock in the cabin heater. It was 68 deg. F. this afternoon when I tried to fix the problem. I ended up improving the 68 deg. F. discharge air to 95 deg. F. coming out of the vents after trying to get rid of the air. The 540i does not have an air vent at the thermostat or radiator - at least none that I can find. The radiator does have a 1/4" I.D. hose that goes from the radiator to the expansion tank - I got air out by taking this hose off at the radiator. Any help?

[632 Regal]

The V8's are self bleeding through that little tube. Just need to keep the heater on hot for a while and it should be fine. No idea how warm the air should be.

[Clarksonvalley]

Evidently my 'self bleeding' function doesn't work - I've driven the car 1,000 miles, kept the expansion tank at the correct level and still no heat. The aux. water pump is working and the heater valves (driver and passenger side) are working. If you disconnect the plug from the heater valves, the should default to 'open' - tried that - still no heat. Anyone have any ideas?

[shogun]

Are you sure, the heater valves are not stuck in closed condition? You can open them up without removing the heater valves. See here
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/position.jpg
[url]http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/position2.jpg
[url]http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/release.jpg
[url]http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/pipe1.jpg
[url]http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/valve.jpg]
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/pomp2.jpg
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/pomp.jpg
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/t10.jpg
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/divid.jpg
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/clean.jpg
http://dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/air.jpg

already posted 10 years ago http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-14911.html

this is the original japanese website http://www.dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/20040618/index.shtml

many good repairs here http://www.dd.jpn.org/BMW_HP/index.shtml

[Clarksonvalley]

As I understand it, when voltage is applied to the heater valves, they close and when the voltage is removed, they open. By removing and replacing the electrical plug to the valves, I can hear them clicking so I am pretty sure they are opening and closing. I replaced both valves in January 2013 at 210,000 miles and the aux. pump in October 2012 at 207,000 miles. I can hear and feel the aux. pump going on and off by removing and replacing its electrical plug. We have a really steep driveway, so my next step is to place the car - nose up - on the steepest part of the driveway and try to get the air out of the heater core.

[632 Regal]

Did you try blowing through that hose? It could be clogged.

I thought you got it to 95 degrees, did it revert back?

[Clarksonvalley]

Yep - the next day I ran an errand and absolutely no heat - had the system set at all outside air. The 'temp' on the onboard computer said 68 deg. F., my digital temp gauge in the dash outlet said the same. I have not tired the steep driveway trick yet - probably tomorrow. No water flow thru the heater core.

[Clarksonvalley]

The heat was great before I drained the system and changed out the plastic thermostat housing to a metal housing - it has to be an air lock.

[shogun]

I do not know how it is on your engine, but on some one can install the thermostat the wrong way. It goes in like this http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1461973-HowTo-gt-M62-thermostat-mod-(lower-engine-temp)
http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/BMW_M60_M62_M62TU_Engine_Cooling_System.htm

[Clarksonvalley]

The thermostat only goes in one way and, when heated up, the engine temperature is normal.

[632 Regal]

The thermostat only goes in one way and, when heated up, the engine temperature is normal.

Very strange to have the heater in constant airlock, did you do anything else when changing the thermostat cover?

[shogun]

Did you see the bleed hole on the thermostat? That must be installed on the top download this file http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2102326-HowTo-gt-gt-M60-Thermostat-Housing-Replacement-DIY
or maybe someone can copy it and download here, might be too big.
Text:
Thermostat and Thermostat Housing Replacement DIY Guide for BMW M60 V8 Engine
This procedure is documented on 1993 BMW E32 740il

This guide is to help you in replacing the thermostat, a routine maintances item, and the original plastic thermostat housing to a metal billet one. If you still have the plastic Themostat Housing I highly recommend replacing it with the metal. The plastic thermostat housing are notorious of leaking around the its joining area this task is easy and staright foward. Disclaimer: This is to article guide you though, I will not be held responsible for any injury/death or property damages
from following this guide. DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK, YOU’VE BEEN WARNED!!
Let’s get started!!
WARNING: Before you begin please make sure your engine is COLD; you don’t want to scald yourself with boiling hot radiator fluid!!
Caution: Radiator Fluid is TOXIC and is considered a Hazardous Material, please do not dispose of it in your street drainage, follow your state and city Hazmat disposal policy. And you spilled coolant on the floor wash if off ASAP and please keep all
pets and kids away from your work area!!

1. Remove the Engine Acoustic Cover
2. Remove the upper air intake box, air intake boot from the throttle body and MAF sensor.
3. Unbolt the two bolts and remove the lower part of the air intake box so you’ll have space to access the Thermostat housing.
4. Place a catch pan and drain the radiator fluid then remove the radiator hose from the thermostat housing and move it away. Check the hoses for any cracks, replace them if needed.
5. Remove this vacuum line from the throttle body for better access to the thermostat housing left upper and lower bolt, check the hose, replace it if needed.
6. Location of the bolts that is holding the thermostat housing in, two on the top and two on the bottom. Remove them and the housing should come right off, if not use a block of wood and give it a few gentle taps and it should fall off. Be sure you have a catch pan under the car when you remove the thermostat! There’s at least 1 gallon of coolant in the engine block that will come rushing out so be prepared!
6b.Comparison between the plastic (black) and metal thermostat housing.
7. Slip on the new rubber O-ring (left pic) on to your new thermostat, install it on to the water pump housing (middle pic), and be sure you line up the thermostat relief valve into its square notch on the thermostat housing!!
8. Install the thermostat housing and bolt it down.
9. ABC
A) Reconnect the lower radiator hose on to the thermostat housing, vacuum line to throttle intake and reinstall the air intake system.
B) Fill the system up with coolant (BMW Orange Coolant or Zerex g-05 recommended do not use GM dex-cool!)
C) Next start your car up and turn on your heater to MAX, and check your level.
Note: this cooling system is a self-bleeding system, no bleed procedure required. Be sure you check your temperature and your coolant level for the next few days, top off if needed.
And that is it you’re done!! Please be sure to dispose of your old coolant properly and wash of any coolant on your drive way A.S.A.P. I hope this guide has helped you!

[Clarksonvalley]

No, just changed the plastic thermostat housing for a metal housing - also replaced the thermostat O-ring. The thermostat was installed with the correct orientation as shown in the service manual. I get normal water temperature at the in-car temperature gauge when the car is warmed up. I put a digital thermal probe on the radiator hoses to verify the in-car temperature gauge - the water temperature is normal. The heater valves operate properly as does the aux. water pump. The only thing that can be amiss is an air lock in the heater core - I had this same problem when I changed the water pump some years ago - just takes time to get it out. I'm just wondering if anyone has a proven method of removing the air lock.

[632 Regal]

I'm just wondering if anyone has a proven method of removing the air lock.

I have messed with M60 thermostats, pumps etc and have not experienced anything like an airlock in the heater, ever. If the system flows it should clear the heater right away without the thermostat even having to open (long as the heater is on and set to hot/high).

I'll ask again, can you blow through that bleeder tube? If not then find and clear the obstruction and try again.

[Clarksonvalley]

Regal,

I think you might have hit it - I removed the rubber bleed tube from the upper driver's side of the radiator and blew into it back towards the expansion tank - could not blow it out with my lung power. I used 35 psi compressed air and it blew it out - it made the water in the expansion tank milky - I guess the compressed air aerated the tank. I use a 50/50 mix of distilled water and Peak antifreeze which was lime green in the expansion tank before I applied the compressed air. It could be that when I changed the thermostat and drained the system some crud broke loose somewhere in the system and got into the bleed tube or maybe the bleed tube was on the verge of becoming blocked anyway and finally closed up. Anyway, I'll start it up tomorrow (too late tonight) and see what happens. I'll let you know.

[632 Regal]

Regal,

I think you might have hit it - I removed the rubber bleed tube from the upper driver's side of the radiator and blew into it back towards the expansion tank - could not blow it out with my lung power. I used 35 psi compressed air and it blew it out - it made the water in the expansion tank milky - I guess the compressed air aerated the tank. I use a 50/50 mix of distilled water and Peak antifreeze which was lime green in the expansion tank before I applied the compressed air. It could be that when I changed the thermostat and drained the system some crud broke loose somewhere in the system and got into the bleed tube or maybe the bleed tube was on the verge of becoming blocked anyway and finally closed up. Anyway, I'll start it up tomorrow (too late tonight) and see what happens. I'll let you know.

Definetley a step in the right direction!

[shogun]

BTW, need a cheapo heater valve for E34, E32, E31? New for 70 $, but no name product, first time I see a no name heater valve, anyone want to give it a try and test it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Heater-Control-Valve-Hot-Water-Solenoid-for-BMW-E31-E34-525-535-64118391417-/201439644735
Just found that when searching for a heater valve, comparing the prices of Hella and Bosch that is really a bargain, but they even do not mention a maker, just aftermarket brand and 90 days warrantee.
That seller has other cheap parts, probably also no name products, just type in the search there the BMW model and they all will pop up
http://www.ebay.com/sch/parts_links/m.html?item=201439644735&rt=nc&_dmd=2
Seller based in United States, name: parts_links

[Clarksonvalley]

OK, I'm an idiot, but let me explain. I was getting 147 deg. F. water at the outlets of both heater solenoid valves. I know the solenoid valves were open because I removed the electrical plug at the valves - the valves are normally open, so removing the plug makes sure the solenoids are not seeing a voltage. Still thinking that I had an air lock in the heater core, I replaced the rubber hose that leads from the expansion tank to the bleed outlet at the upper left hand side of the radiator. Still, no heat. I took the car on a trip out of town and am trying to think of a solution to the 'no heat' problem when some of my aged neurons awoke. There is a thumb wheel between the two heater outlets at the center of the dash. It was positioned at about it's mid point of travel. I turned the wheel to 'full heat' and - got heat - about 130 deg. F. of heat. Looking in the Owner's Manual, this thumb wheel controls the temperature out of the inlets, but not by doing anything to the solenoid valves as I still had the electrical plug off of the valves. I can't find this thumb wheel on any wiring diagrams. It must control a third solenoid valve that throttles water to the heater core. Does anyone know how this thumb wheel works - what does it control and where is the device located???

[632 Regal]

After doing a search I found this from 1999:


regarding your question about the temperature control thumbwheel on the centre vent. According to a smal parts drawing i have it appears to operate the same way as on the E39. I do not know what wires you are testing but there are no electrical wires to the thumbwheel - it is mechanical. It is a ttached to a shrot beldon cable that goes to a vent flap arm somewhere on the Heater unit. All it does is adjust a flap to allow some air from the heater plenum to cross over into the fresh air vents (the front ducts on the dash, including at the doors).

From the picture below it appears there is no cable.

http://www.bimmernut.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8383&stc=1

[shogun]

The question is also what kind of system he has installed. IHKA, IHR, IHKR or whatever. Some systems use cables, some like the IHKA integrated heating and cooling automatic system has stepper motors for all this.
So check on www.realoem.com what you have installed.
Here is a German site where all the differences are shown in the heater boxes, controls etc.
See on left Schraubereien http://www.gunnar525.de/

BTW: a heater valve can also get stuck in closed position when it is dirty and the power wire was still attached. Unless you do not open up the heater valve and check it, you just assume that theoretically without power it should be open.
I can confirm to you that I have found heater valves completely clogged and that did not matter if the power was connected ot not, clogged is clogged, see pics on my website.

[ahlem]

Did you squeeze the radiator hoses and push them to the lowest possible position?
If there is an air trap somewhere, that may help.
I was able to help a similar situation by putting a pressure tester on the cooling system over flow tank and pump some pressure but not let an air bubble into the hoses. When I loosened the hose clamp at the highest point possible in the system, a bit of coolant came out and then it passed wind and I had heat.

[632 Regal]

Did you squeeze the radiator hoses and push them to the lowest possible position?
If there is an air trap somewhere, that may help.
I was able to help a similar situation by putting a pressure tester on the cooling system over flow tank and pump some pressure but not let an air bubble into the hoses. When I loosened the hose clamp at the highest point possible in the system, a bit of coolant came out and then it passed wind and I had heat.

Doesn't matter on the V8, self bleeding unlike the I6's.

[shogun]

Hope we get an update on the situation, I am wondering what the problem was and how it was solved.

[Clarksonvalley]

See my 11-30-2015 posting

[shogun]

There is no posting from you or any other person in this thread dated 11-30-2015, at least as I see it with my forum software adjustment to my time zone in Japan. I can only see a post from you dated 12-01-2015: quote
12-01-2015, 02:40 AM #18 Clarksonvalley
OK, I'm an idiot, but let me explain. I was getting 147 deg. F. water at the outlets of both heater solenoid valves. I know the solenoid valves were open because I removed the electrical plug at the valves - the valves are normally open, so removing the plug makes sure the solenoids are not seeing a voltage. Still thinking that I had an air lock in the heater core, I replaced the rubber hose that leads from the expansion tank to the bleed outlet at the upper left hand side of the radiator. Still, no heat. I took the car on a trip out of town and am trying to think of a solution to the 'no heat' problem when some of my aged neurons awoke. There is a thumb wheel between the two heater outlets at the center of the dash. It was positioned at about it's mid point of travel. I turned the wheel to 'full heat' and - got heat - about 130 deg. F. of heat. Looking in the Owner's Manual, this thumb wheel controls the temperature out of the inlets, but not by doing anything to the solenoid valves as I still had the electrical plug off of the valves. I can't find this thumb wheel on any wiring diagrams. It must control a third solenoid valve that throttles water to the heater core. Does anyone know how this thumb wheel works - what does it control and where is the device located???
unquote

[Clarksonvalley]

Yep, that's the posting I am referring to.

[genphreak]

I can't find this thumb wheel on any wiring diagrams. It must control a third solenoid valve that throttles water to the heater core. Does anyone know how this thumb wheel works - what does it control and where is the device located???
unquote

You won't find any detail on a wiring diagram as it has no electrical connection (other than the illumination bulb), that thumbwheel controls only the amount of cool air added to the central vent's hot air (the air that feeds up from the heat exchanger). It has no effect on the water flow.

So the problem is just a gotcha- Clarksonvalley was not quite 'going with his flow control'- and he's all good now (?) lol

[632 Regal]

So the problem is just a gotcha- Clarksonvalley was not quite 'going with his flow control'- and he's all good now (?) lol

The cold air blowing on the passanger side floor is most likely from someone not putting all the ductwork back or doing so incorrectly. That is where me and Clarkson left off in emails.