Tickety Tick Tock

[632 Regal]

Time to check out the Grandfather Clock.

Noticed when warm at idle a few lifter ticks, defenitely sounds like weak oil pressure gradually getting worse. Since I use synthetic it's not old broken down oil. Looked around to see where I can tap into to check the oil pressure and I thought why even bother with it? Need to put all the bolts back into the oil pump and tighten the chain. I would prefer to drop in a 4.0 but without a 2nd backup vehicle that is pretty much out of the question without help. Going to grab a lower oil pan gasket and see what makes this thing tick. Will update.

Speaking of Update, Dave! How did that steering box deal work out?

[genphreak]

Time to check out the Grandfather Clock... I would prefer to drop in a 4.0 but without a 2nd backup vehicle that is pretty much out of the question without help. Going to grab a lower oil pan gasket and see what makes this thing tick. Will update.

Heh, I know the feeling. But also, timing chains and coolant pipes et al in the valley can all need costly parts/attention when they get 'this gray in the jowls;'.

Thought about sourcing a cheap M62 out of an X5/e39 540/ e38 740? I can sense deep in my soul that you need... yes, that's right...

Moah powaah!

Better to invest your time and money in the new generation. (they still need timing chains and cooling pipes, just different ones!)

... And besides... It's not so hard to do: E.g.

Fill the fridge with whatever it will take and line up I reckon perhaps 40 beers along the wall beside it. Every job looks easier when broken down/punctuated with beer.

Remove bonnet, pull down the front, unbolt and disconnect, pull it out. Stick new one back in, a few mods to the wiring, don't suggest you get the VANOS version unless you want to spend more money...

[632 Regal]

Not a big fan of those M62s with the single timing chain. Those seem to need replacement at around 125K not like the old M60s that never need them redone. My 3.0 runs great I am just disappointed it lacks the power of Nikka. The difference is substantial and mileage the same, just Nikka had that slight miss at idle. I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

[genphreak]

Not a big fan of those M62s with the single timing chain. Those seem to need replacement at around 125K not like the old M60s that never need them redone. My 3.0 runs great I am just disappointed it lacks the power of Nikka. The difference is substantial and mileage the same, just Nikka had that slight miss at idle. I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

Indeed. You mean, like this? (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/876903) You know the block, cams and most other parts are the same, so one option is to put in just a B40 bottom end, manifolds and heads (as the B40 has bigger valves).

One day I know I'll be taking the intake off mine to redo the head intake seals, pcv, coolant pipes, valley pan. In looking at what else is to be done at the same time you get to the oil separator and yes, chains. Trouble with the timing chains is more guide related- the plastics in both M60 and M62 crack up and end up lodged in the sump, but enough remains to keep the chain from failing before the noise gets to people. Have you confirmed there are M62 chain failures or is it more worn guides/noise? All M62 chains are noisy at startup as soon as the guides fail.

The ideal rebuilt M6x is a Frankenstein of old and new. I made a list of what to do if I ever have to build an M62B44/46 (I have a spare 4.0 here ready for this day) so I'll list it below. Have just updated it to retain M60 chains, but realise now that this is probably the straw that breaks the camel's back: One can start with an M62 block, but it is really not much different to turning the old M60 upside down, dropping in the B44 or B46 internals and going from there. Nothing to stop you using M62 heads unless you want to leave the M60 ones on there or something. In which case, you can even start with an M60B30 ;-)

However the following assumes starting with an M62:

Rebuild items
Early M62 block, B44/46 crank/rods. Avoid anything with VANOS parts. A lot of people convert to OBDI rather than using original/third party ECU.

Transfer from donor:
M60 Both upper timing covers
M60 Lower timing cover (or use M62 and make a bolt-on bracket for the CPS, if opting to leave the Jesus bolt)
M60 double row timing chains, additional sprockets and guides on the block, spacers for M60 cams on M62 the heads.
- Replace worn chain and sprockets
Additional spacer under CPS on left side to allow CPS to mount without hitting when the M62 crank rotates
M60 belt-driven ancillaries (though I'm looking into using M62TU tensioners atm)
M60 OBDI harness, ECU with M62 OBD-I tune
M60 throttle body / TPS
M60 harmonic balancer / pulley system
M60 intake manifold
M60 oil pan
M60 cams (or remove the VANOS ends (hardened camshafts aren't the easiest to machine or cut) from the M62 ones to fit to the M60 heads/timing chain)

Am I not tempting you yet?

[genphreak]

I have no worries about sticking a 4.0 where a 3.0 goes in front of the auto slushbox since I do believe Nikka had that option. Someone here did that swap years ago with no issues but then again that was years ago. I sure would appreciate this thing more with a bit more power...

Have you considered the 'easy upgrade' for a B30? Its just a few bolt-ons from a B40:

- Manifold
- PCV/Backplate for vacuum connections (on the back of the manifold)
- Internal and external manifold breather pipes (one runs on left hand side of manifold (slides back and forth when removing/installing manifold)

It's amazing but this is all it takes for the B30 to be able to breathe properly.

Optional:
- Throttle body, MAF and intake bellows and filter. Not much need for them as it won't suck that much more air volume than a stock B30. If you do, simply switch over throttle cable plate from B30 manifold.

The hardest part is cleaning all the oily B40 bits!

You should get well in excess of 10HP from just these- some have done it and think 30 was had(?!)

[632 Regal]

Have you considered the 'easy upgrade' for a B30? Its just a few bolt-ons from a B40:

- Manifold
- PCV/Backplate for vacuum connections (on the back of the manifold)
- Internal and external manifold breather pipes (one runs on left hand side of manifold (slides back and forth when removing/installing manifold)

It's amazing but this is all it takes for the B30 to be able to breathe properly.

Optional:
- Throttle body, MAF and intake bellows and filter. Not much need for them as it won't suck that much more air volume than a stock B30. If you do, simply switch over throttle cable plate from B30 manifold.

The hardest part is cleaning all the oily B40 bits!

You should get well in excess of 10HP from just these- some have done it and think 30 was had(?!)

Bigger intake, throttle body will bring the powerband up even higher. Mine doesn't start to produce anything until +4k. My cams could be off tune, there is no way this thing would have sold as it is new.

Waiting for the local pullapart.com to drag in a smashed 4.0, been keeping my eyes open for a little while. If the car is smashed the engine should be good, if the body is good the engine or trans will be bad.

[genphreak]

Bigger intake, throttle body will bring the powerband up even higher. Mine doesn't start to produce anything until +4k. My cams could be off tune, there is no way this thing would have sold as it is new.

Waiting for the local pullapart.com to drag in a smashed 4.0, been keeping my eyes open for a little while. If the car is smashed the engine should be good, if the body is good the engine or trans will be bad.

That bad eh? They outperform an M30 on paper, and I've driven a few- most were quite fine. They are also very economical, though few people consider they use less fuel than the B40. Again, on paper they do, by a fair way. Some is weight- mostly the huge 5HP30 tranny (125kg vs 85kg for the 5HP18), but also the 210mm diff and thicker brake discs). Plus he engine is also de-tuned for economy, which is perhaps why that intake swap yields really decent results. What you say about shifting the powerband up may be true, but the search online, people like the results. I doubt there is any need to change the TB but at least one could leave it first time round so you can do it for fun at a later date. and see the difference?

Jeff have you checked if that the PCV block and throttle body housing are not missing some bungs (venting atmosphere) and there is no other vacuum leak? Or are you thinking you have some compression loss?

[632 Regal]

That bad eh? They outperform an M30 on paper, and I've driven a few- most were quite fine. They are also very economical, though few people consider they use less fuel than the B40. Again, on paper they do, by a fair way. Some is weight- mostly the huge 5HP30 tranny (125kg vs 85kg for the 5HP18), but also the 210mm diff and thicker brake discs). Plus he engine is also de-tuned for economy, which is perhaps why that intake swap yields really decent results. What you say about shifting the powerband up may be true, but the search online, people like the results. I doubt there is any need to change the TB but at least one could leave it first time round so you can do it for fun at a later date. and see the difference?

Jeff have you checked if that the PCV block and throttle body housing are not missing some bungs (venting atmosphere) and there is no other vacuum leak? Or are you thinking you have some compression loss?

That is the whole thing, I have nothing to compare it to besides former Nikky. Nikky had low compression on 2 cylinders but above idle was just fine, almost increadable compared to this new thing that still remains nameless. Nikky had leaks and I replaced intake gaskets, plates, hoses, injectors etc and still had that idle miss. The air horns in the intake, 2 were bouncing around, everything was the cause for the miss but nothing fixed it... just an old nikasil failure I guess.

New one has even compression on all cylinders, no intake leaks etc. I should do the cam timing but lack the cam blocks. This car according to history had major engine work around 50K, so I assumed a new engine but the performance sucks. Still think I was spoiled with a 4.0 in disguise. Does not have an idle miss or anything besides a hot idle lifter chatter which I already have the gasket to put the oil pump back together. Other than that it's a very weak example of a V8.

[genphreak]

That is the whole thing, I have nothing to compare it to besides former Nikky. Nikky had low compression on 2 cylinders but above idle was just fine, almost increadable compared to this new thing that still remains nameless. Nikky had leaks and I replaced intake gaskets, plates, hoses, injectors etc and still had that idle miss. The air horns in the intake, 2 were bouncing around, everything was the cause for the miss but nothing fixed it... just an old nikasil failure I guess.

New one has even compression on all cylinders, no intake leaks etc. I should do the cam timing but lack the cam blocks. This car according to history had major engine work around 50K, so I assumed a new engine but the performance sucks. Still think I was spoiled with a 4.0 in disguise. Does not have an idle miss or anything besides a hot idle lifter chatter which I already have the gasket to put the oil pump back together. Other than that it's a very weak example of a V8. Hmm. Plugs are correct /gapped properly? Are you positive its not just intake leaks? Ever heard an intake backfire if you hold it in a low gear and when back off throttle hard from high revs?

When they replaced the motor maybe they only did a long block replacement so transferred over the intake and other items, thus making it suffer leaks- possibly only at a later date. There are so many opportunities/places for leaks to happen, at this age its worth pulling it down to check- unless you can do a smoke test.

[632 Regal]

Hmm. Plugs are correct /gapped properly? Are you positive its not just intake leaks? Ever heard an intake backfire if you hold it in a low gear and when back off throttle hard from high revs?

When they replaced the motor maybe they only did a long block replacement so transferred over the intake and other items, thus making it suffer leaks- possibly only at a later date. There are so many opportunities/places for leaks to happen, at this age its worth pulling it down to check- unless you can do a smoke test.

Swapped everything from Nikky before I sold her. MAf computer boxes etc. Even the 3:64 rear gears. Nothing changed. No backfires, can tell them when it gets cold if it's the intake gaskets. plugs look good, non-gapable type. Been through it all, not an intake leak issue. The motor pulls a bit harder than my sons 328 at the time. However this current engine as I mentionsed does not pull until 4000 rpms (4200) and then it is weaker than Nikka. Engine should start to pull before 4K in my opinion. Engine has all the 3.0 garb, intake the small one, throttle body the small one, intake and even the airbox intake is the small 3.0 same as Nikka.

[genphreak]

Swapped everything from Nikky before I sold her. MAf computer boxes etc. Even the 3:64 rear gears. Nothing changed. No backfires, can tell them when it gets cold if it's the intake gaskets. plugs look good, non-gapable type. Been through it all, not an intake leak issue. The motor pulls a bit harder than my sons 328 at the time. However this current engine as I mentionsed does not pull until 4000 rpms (4200) and then it is weaker than Nikka. Engine should start to pull before 4K in my opinion. Engine has all the 3.0 garb, intake the small one, throttle body the small one, intake and even the airbox intake is the small 3.0 same as Nikka.

Also considered the oxy sensor and the FPR? And btw 'non-gappable' are all gappable if you try. I usually compare the old to a new one out of the box before doing anything- they do wear and sometimes people fiddle with them without knowing what they're doing. I've seen some that have been dropped on one side- and it doesn't show unless you check them very carefully, esp if you wear glasses- though I wouldn't have said that before I had to get a pair for seeing things near me more clearly, LOL...

There is a solution somewhere. You must not expect obvious symptoms, codes thrown and so on for something that is causing power loss at high rpm.

[632 Regal]

Also considered the oxy sensor and the FPR? And btw 'non-gappable' are all gappable if you try. I usually compare the old to a new one out of the box before doing anything- they do wear and sometimes people fiddle with them without knowing what they're doing. I've seen some that have been dropped on one side- and it doesn't show unless you check them very carefully, esp if you wear glasses- though I wouldn't have said that before I had to get a pair for seeing things near me more clearly, LOL...

There is a solution somewhere. You must not expect obvious symptoms, codes thrown and so on for something that is causing power loss at high rpm.

There is a plain power loss across the board. Not only high rpm.

Recently I am getting a slight miss, when warm its ticking so low oil pressure is to blame. When cold we are also getting a miss. I only checked a couple plugs when I got it and the bolts for the coil packs were galled so I didn't check further since it was very smooth. Might JB weld all the galled ones and put ground straps but since I haven't had time to get into there it's all a guess now.

Hoping there is something stupid going on in there. Need to finish some loose ends as in the e46 i'm trying to turn plus other stuff and I'll chow down on this E34. Not sure of it's name yet as I might off it and get a fresh one... It just isn't personal to me like Nikki was.

[genphreak]

There is a plain power loss across the board. Not only high rpm.

Recently I am getting a slight miss, when warm its ticking so low oil pressure is to blame. When cold we are also getting a miss. I only checked a couple plugs when I got it and the bolts for the coil packs were galled so I didn't check further since it was very smooth. Might JB weld all the galled ones and put ground straps but since I haven't had time to get into there it's all a guess now.

Hoping there is something stupid going on in there. Need to finish some loose ends as in the e46 i'm trying to turn plus other stuff and I'll chow down on this E34. Not sure of it's name yet as I might off it and get a fresh one... It just isn't personal to me like Nikki was.

I sure KWYM; my projects take years instead of weeks. be sure chk the exhaust gaskets too- they are often re-used during replacement :-p

Surely B30 should generate better power down low (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOwjrO94KC0) (dyno chart) but to maintain 'bahnability' they always leave room for power up-high. There is a solution somewhere- and certainly checking the cams sounds reasonable. Just don't expect obvious symptoms, codes thrown and so on, what causes slight loss at high rpm will probably hide itself well.

As ever, Good luck with the ol' girl. It sounds like she has some work to do to grow on you.

And good luck too choosing one sell-out of a gubmint over another. I thought our gubmints were bad here in Oz, where the mining companies run the joint. Over there, it seems its energy is just one group alongside the money, the lawyers and the weapons companies. If we didn't have to vote here, very few would. I think it was Woody Allen that said; 'The choice seems to be between misery and desperation and total oblivion. I just hope they choose wisely'.

[632 Regal]

I will see if I can pull the PCV plate off the intake, if it has bolts or torx. I know with torx the intake has to be pulled which is a big deal with no backup vehicle.

Have the E46 ready to pull the front subframe off to replace it. Making an engine hold bar or whatever they're called so I can work under there for a few minutes. Finished welding some brackets for it and got too smokey to stay in the garage.

Spooky on stands in a sloping driveway so I stuck a few wheels under to hold the car up, much safer but I just don't care to crawl around under things like this especially with an engine floating above my head.

[genphreak]

I will see if I can pull the PCV plate off the intake, if it has bolts or torx. I know with torx the intake has to be pulled which is a big deal with no backup vehicle.

Have the E46 ready to pull the front subframe off to replace it. Making an engine hold bar or whatever they're called so I can work under there for a few minutes. Finished welding some brackets for it and got too smokey to stay in the garage.

Spooky on stands in a sloping driveway so I stuck a few wheels under to hold the car up, much safer but I just don't care to crawl around under things like this especially with an engine floating above my head.

Hell yea tell me about it. The more cars I park in my driveway the further down I end up working, and the steeper the 'workshop floor' gets :-) Evolution may just claim me one of these days! With the PCV plate, they are T30 torx or 5mm allen (can't remember, sorry) so use one of those small mini ratchets to remove them in the minimal clearance. But you can reach over the engine easily enough with the overflow tank lifted out of the way (no need to empty it) and feel the two ports that are supposed to be blocked, the factory caps have little plastic lock rings which twist on like bayonets to jam the cap around the pipe. These are almost always lost/mislaid after which the caps just blow off if they have not already crumbled. BMW don't sell them AFAIK. You can get aftermarket silicone caps 1mm smaller and just squeeze 'em on tight... see below:

I don't think new PCVs come with the caps or the locking pieces either to make things worse.

[632 Regal]

Remember when a new guy called it a cyclone valve and a bunch of people got on his case he was a nube? Pook kid.

[genphreak]

Remember when a new guy called it a cyclone valve and a bunch of people got on his case he was a nube? Poor kid.Ah hah, yes, those cyclone valves, they didn't last long, were superceded by magnetic fuel polarisers!

Here's a couple of pics of mine from an angle we don't normally get :-)
8513
The red one is a 6mm silicone plug, below it is a big one, which is an elbow with a big plug. That is something like 10mm diameter (?) and can go bad too.

And, there is another place to check: On the front of the manifold, beside the Throttle body plate, there's another big one to check for cracking/loss.

[632 Regal]

Got all my cheap chinese gaskets and plate. The PVC plate says Bapmic Germany so it's made in China for a German company... no clue man. Been looking this stuff up and it is possible to just replace the diaphram and cap without removing the entire PVC plate. Waiting on my #30 torx to see if I can loosen the bits and be on my way. (old #30 is less than desireable) Rather remove the plate because of the amount of oil in the intake so I can soak it out. The old removed plates that I have seen are always encrusted with crud and old oil. If all else fails I have a complete gasket kit for less than 20 bux US.