Cold air on passenger side

[Kibokojoe]

Pulled the heater valve today and cleaned it. Checked to see if the solenoids were working properly, they were. Ran the car and still cold air on passenger side.....Disconnected the wires to the heater core and drove it again but still cold air on the passenger side. By theory if there is no power to the heater valve solenoid I should be getting hot air....correct? Why would I only be getting hot air on the drivers side and cold air on the passengers side?

What does this flap do? Passengerside temperature mixing flap

Following my logic. Kind of scary huh??? Anyway I now believe the problem lies with the cold air flapper on the passenger side. My reasoning is that prior to this problem when ever I would turn off the blower motor I would hear a thump after about 60 seconds. It no longer does this. I now believe this was the cold air flapper on the passenger side, and it was on its way out. Question now, is it the stepper motor, the linkage rod between the stepper motor, or the flapper itself. I know I will have to remove the front console to access the stepper motor but will I have to disassemble the IHKA to repair a broken flapper. I have seen picture of these beast and it looks pretty scary.

[vping]

Are there two flaps? The reason I ask is that my car sat for so long that they must have been sticking. Then one day I after about 60 seconds I heard the thump and assumed it was some sort of heater flap. I do not have heat on passenger and posted about it. It was deemed that I may have a stuck solenoid but I still need to address it. Maybe I have a flapper problem.

[Kibokojoe]

Yeah mine was always a thump after a few seconds of gears whining and then silence. I pray the flapper is not broken. I have a driveshaft to put into my 7 so the flapper will have to wait

[shogun]

On my E32 750 from 10/88 parts car I removed all parts and studied that. On left side of the IHKA unit there is a stepper motor, and that is connected with both flaps, left and right side with a bowden cable.
You can access that the same way as you want to get to the blower fan motor.
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/ihka/ihka.html

[Kibokojoe]

I am going to try to make the repair this weekend. I am hoping I can make the repair without having to pull the dash. It will be very cold this weekend and even with a semi heated garage you can still have problems with plastic parts. I may have to wait for warmer days. Tomorrow I am hoping to get the driveshaft installed in the 7. Does anyone know why BMW put a two part driveshaft with a center bearing in these cars? There's not a lot of travel in the rear end.

Oh something I forgot to ask??? Is there a fuse on these stepper motors? One for each motor?

[shogun]

On the E32 I am hundred percent sure, no need to remove the dash, just then glovebox, the center console, the metal arm behind that from chassis to center console, the radio and the OBC, and it helps to remove the front seats and the steering wheel, so you have more space to manouver. But not a absolutel must do.
On E34 I am not sure, but should probably the same.
Stepper motors do not have a separate fuse, all controlled by the IHKA unit.
Make pics, Joe, and a nice short instruction how to do.
And good Luck

[adrian.j]

i have a question.. my heat gets generally warm but for some reason the vents in between the seats blowing towards the rear blow cold air. for now i just close them but im wondering why that might be. its not like warm air either its really cold air like its from outside

[DaveVoorhis]

i have a question.. my heat gets generally warm but for some reason the vents in between the seats blowing towards the rear blow cold air. for now i just close them but im wondering why that might be. its not like warm air either its really cold air like its from outside
They're designed to do that.

[Kibokojoe]

Yeap no hot air comes through that vent, it would be nice if you could control it.

[shogun]

do you mean vents in center console rear end? If that is the same like on the E32, that is only ambient air, hot air comes from under the seat.
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/air_distribution.jpg

http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html

[Kibokojoe]

Shogun
Finally it is warm enough to work on the 5. Pulled the center console and inspected the stepper motor on the right side of the heater/air box, it works fine so I don't know what is causing only cold air to come out of the vent marked with the yellow arrow. Should I get warm air from any of the other vents on the passenger side? Passenger floor? Right side of console? Knee area on passenger side? It seems to me if it where a broken flap then I should get warm air from all the the other passenger vents except the one marked with the yellow arrow? Is this how it works?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/noheat.jpg

do you mean vents in center console rear end? If that is the same like on the E32, that is only ambient air, hot air comes from under the seat.
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/air_distribution.jpg

http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html

[shogun]

The system is quite complicated and maybe you try to understand the German here, only about 50 pages ;-)
training material for BMW technicians
called
Klimaautomatik IHKA (German language PDF)
and you find it here, scroll down
http://www.e38.org/e32/
There are also a lot of drawings and data to check, for example each temperature sensor in the system, how to check and which data it should show at which degree Celsius.

the control of each stepper motor is done by the IHKA control unit and it even compares the speed and things like that.

Have you checked the flap you can see from the outside when you remove in engine room the black cover at the firewall to access the blower motor?
As I mentioned some month back, the motor for the 2 outer flaps is on the driver side, and the passenger side flap is regulated from this motor too, bith with a bpowden cable. Maybe that is broken? Or just slipped out of the place where it should be?

More to check here
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/ihka/ihka.html

Edit: you mentioned the stepper motor works, but did you remove the stepper motor and check if the flap is broken?

[Kibokojoe]

Found the problem. I pulled the vent cover in the center of the dash and looked down inside. Turning the ignition on and off the vent on the left moved with the step motor the vent marked with the yellow arrow did not. When I turned on the blower the vent on the right popped open, when I held it closed with a screwdriver heat began to blow out of the right vent. So it looks like this vent has no control. Now the question is do I have to pull the IHKA or can I fix it in place? I downloaded the manual and am trying to figure out which stepper motor controls the center vent. Looks like I am in for a evening of Google translation. Man I pray I don't have to pull the IHKA it looks like a real pain.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/centerventarrow.jpg


The system is quite complicated and maybe you try to understand the German here, only about 50 pages ;-)
training material for BMW technicians
called
Klimaautomatik IHKA (German language PDF)
and you find it here, scroll down
http://www.e38.org/e32/
There are also a lot of drawings and data to check, for example each temperature sensor in the system, how to check and which data it should show at which degree Celsius.

the control of each stepper motor is done by the IHKA control unit and it even compares the speed and things like that.

Have you checked the flap you can see from the outside when you remove in engine room the black cover at the firewall to access the blower motor?
As I mentioned some month back, the motor for the 2 outer flaps is on the driver side, and the passenger side flap is regulated from this motor too, bith with a bpowden cable. Maybe that is broken? Or just slipped out of the place where it should be?

More to check here
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/ihka/ihka.html

Edit: you mentioned the stepper motor works, but did you remove the stepper motor and check if the flap is broken?

[shogun]

here the stepper motors are marked
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/ihka/ihka.html

[Kibokojoe]

Which motor 2 or 3 controls the left center vent marked with the yellow arrow?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/whichflap.jpg


here the stepper motors are marked
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/ihka/ihka.html

[shogun]

should be 2, see pages 6,7,8,9 (maybe someone can reconfirm before you start)
2.09 MB!
http://www.e38.org/e32/klimaautomatik.pdf

http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/200205/

good pics about a repair on this German site, download them
http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-ihka.htm

pic in post 11 with JB weld, and in post 17 a pdf with a nicely made bracket,
in post 19 he made bracket also for the motor to stop them
http://www.7-forum.com/forum/5/ubeltaeter-gefunden-defekte-schrittmotorhalterung-94773.html#post919044

[Kibokojoe]

I only have motor 1 and 3, then I have a cable controls where motor 2 should be.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/stepmotors.jpg

Can I pull the dash and open the top of the vent tubing and access the flap from there? Without having to pull the IHKA out?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/centerventarrow.jpg


should be 2, see pages 6,7,8,9 (maybe someone can reconfirm before you start)
2.09 MB!
http://www.e38.org/e32/klimaautomatik.pdf

http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/200205/

good pics about a repair on this German site, download them
http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-ihka.htm

pic in post 11 with JB weld, and in post 17 a pdf with a nicely made bracket,
in post 19 he made bracket also for the motor to stop them
http://www.7-forum.com/forum/5/ubeltaeter-gefunden-defekte-schrittmotorhalterung-94773.html#post919044

[shogun]

I assume it is not possible, but I never tried it.
I so far removed the complete IHKA control unit from my parts car, but that I did when there was almost nothing left inside the car, so that was much easier.

[Kibokojoe]

Do you know how the flap is attached to the rod? It seems to me that it has just fallen off. The stepper motor on the passenger side actuates both flaps I am assuming? I pulled the motor on the floor vent passenger side and opened the floor vent by hand. This allowed me access to the actuator for the center flaps. When I moved the arm only the center flap on the drivers side moved up and down. The center flap on the passenger side isn't attached to a motor on the drivers side is it?

[shogun]

was quite long time ago, no sharp memory.
the drive side flap has a motor, and the passenger side flap is actuated from the drover side motor with a bowden cable. And that is accessible from the engine room.
And that I found on a 10/1988 E32 750iL, maybe it is different on other production years.
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/heater_bulkhead_1.jpg


once more go thru all the pics here
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html

[Kibokojoe]

Yes there is a motor on the drivers side (USA) and a cable that actuates the fresh air vent on the passenger side but this is fresh air vents that are on the firewall. The vents that I am talking about are in the interior of the car. Looking at all of the pictures it appears that if the dash is removed you should be able to remove the top of the IHKA without removing it. But then again I may be talking about the duct work on top of the IHKA. I think if the duct work is removed I should be able to get a closer look at the flap and perhaps repair it. What do I have to loose I still have to remove the dash anyway :) Now its off to find instruction on dash removal.


was quite long time ago, no sharp memory.
the drive side flap has a motor, and the passenger side flap is actuated from the drover side motor with a bowden cable. And that is accessible from the engine room.
And that I found on a 10/1988 E32 750iL, maybe it is different on other production years.
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/heater_bulkhead_1.jpg


once more go thru all the pics here
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/center_vents/center_vents_v1.1-1.html

[shogun]

dashboard removal
http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/dashboard_removal/dashboard_removal_v1.1-1.html
before you start, read the last info!!!!!

Update - The easy way: I had this idea I did way to much work the last time when I removed the dash cover. As I have no other hobbies I removed the dashboard cover again. This time the upper part was off in some 20 minutes. I removed all the connectors under the driverside glovebox, the steering wheel, the instrument cluster, the IHKA wiring loom, the park ventilation wiring to the IHKA control panel and the speaker wiring to the speakers behind the kick panels. Then I took off the entire center cover (with two people) with the wiringloom, OBC, speakers, air channels, radio and everything still in it. You will have to free the wiring loom to the hazardwarning lights and the auto transmission. http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/dashboard_removal/dash_cover.jpg

[Kibokojoe]

How did you ever know which connectors to remove? You must really know your stuff. Is your vehicle a european car? (right side driver)

[shogun]

I did not write that, that is written by Johan, see the link above.

My car is a European car (left side driver), same as Johan's car, who lives in the Netherlands. Steering wheel on left side.
European cars are in general left hand drive, except some countries like the U.K. which is RHD

[Jehu]

I have a somewhat related question. I am finding some green residue on the ground under where the Air Conditioning Condensation drains out thru the two hoses.. I initially feared it was Green Anti freeze leaking into the air box from faulty heater core o-rings then I realized my Windshield Washer Fluid is also Green but the dripping is not really where the washer Reservoir is located. I then realized it is perhaps just washer fluid from the excessive use due to many insect suicides on my windshield which has been sucked into the air intake at the base of the windshield and is mixing in the air box with condensation and draining out . The residue is not smelling like antifreeze and is not really oily like that.. am I correct that this is probably washer fluid that has splashed up and been sucked into the Air box?

Heck,while I'm asking... With all settings on the manual climate control set to full cold, center wheel all the way down, two dials all the way to the left(blue) and the AC button the Manual says to keep the bottom(foot well) slider slightly open for the temp sensor but I then get Hot Air to my feet which is very uncomfortable in the summer when I want the AC. is this a stepper motor /Mixing Flap issue or it the Heater valves faulty? When I turn the center vent wheel the temp will change but I thought when the wheel was all the way to cold the water valves were shutting completely and should't allow any heated coolant into the Heater Core at all which must be happening if I feel heat to my feet even with all setting to cold....

[ArnZ!]

I cant help with the air questions but shogun puts in a 100,000,000,000% effort into helping this forum! Such a great help.

[shogun]

@Jehu
this question I have to pass on to others, I only know the IHKA, but not the manual version.
What might help is the site of Gunnar in Germany
he has made a lot of instructions and also shows the different systems, he also modified to IHKA and shows the differences.
Go thru all these pages, lots of pics
IHKR >IHKA conversion
72 pages, big file!
http://www.gunnar525.de/screwings/ihkr-ihka_umbau.pdf
FAQ aircon
http://www.gunnar525.de/screwings/klima_faq.pdf
AUC retrofit
http://www.gunnar525.de/screwings/auc_einbau.pdf
parked ventilation retrofit
http://www.gunnar525.de/screwings/stdlft_einbau.pdf

[Jehu]

Ok.thanks for the info...

[Kibokojoe]

Got the dash off in about 1 hour. Man what a job, it will probably take me more than a day to get it all back together. Looks like I will be able to repair the flaps without removing the IKHA but I need to know if I can get the parts. I have attached a picture of both flaps.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flapmetal.jpg
The metal flap "above" has plastic button which is lying next to the flap, broken in two pieces. The rest of the broken button can be seen through the floor vent, it is an arm. So I will need to get the arm. Wonder if it is available?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flapplastic.jpg
The plastic flap "above" can be JB Welded back into place which I will do tonight Any suggestions before I proceed?????



On the E32 I am hundred percent sure, no need to remove the dash, just then glovebox, the center console, the metal arm behind that from chassis to center console, the radio and the OBC, and it helps to remove the front seats and the steering wheel, so you have more space to manouver. But not a absolutel must do.
On E34 I am not sure, but should probably the same.
Stepper motors do not have a separate fuse, all controlled by the IHKA unit.
Make pics, Joe, and a nice short instruction how to do.
And good Luck

[shogun]

I am afraid there are no single parts available from the dealer.
Only the housing center item # 3 complete
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E32/Sedan/Europe/750iL-M70/LHD/A/1988/november/browse/heater_and_air_conditioning/housing_parts_automatic_air_conditioning/
Part number: 64 11 1 374 325 $ 236.50

options: get the upper part from a used one
or
make a aluminium bracket or from plastic, where you have the possibilities.

As a used one will probably also be brittle, I would try to make the brackets DIY.

Make as many pics as possible, and send them to me, to the link on my website, to Hairywithit, he will include that on the site. Will be good for future help.
And a short write up would also be good.
And when you have the parts made, new busines for you ;-)
many people will need them.

[Kibokojoe]

Here is a pic of the arm. Not the white arm but the black one behind it. I circled it with a yellow line. I will pull the existing and see if I can make one. Now I wish I had a mill.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flaparm.jpg

[Kibokojoe]

Cleaned the shaft where the plastic flap broke off. Then spread some JB Weld along the broken edge of the flap, tried to make it a thin line just on the edge and the thickness of the plastic flap. Stayed away from the edge about 1/4" (see photo). Then I pushed the other flap closed in the other vent, this makes it easier to position the flap into place and gives it support on three of the four edges with the forth edge being the broken edge. Carefully place the broken flap into place making sure not to get glue anywhere except the break. Once the flap was in place I then smeared JBWeld along the broken seam. with a popsicle stick. Making sure not to get it too thick so it doesn't get on any other parts. That was about 2 hours ago, just went out to test it and it worked. Once it sets up over night I will apply JBWeld to the other side. I also spread JBWeld on the other flap, It has a couple of hair line cracks on it too. This is a tight area and my head was against the windshield and had to fight to get one eye into position to see down the hole :) Isn't the prettiest job with glue I have seen but if it works who cares ;)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flapglued.jpg


Got the dash off in about 1 hour. Man what a job, it will probably take me more than a day to get it all back together. Looks like I will be able to repair the flaps without removing the IKHA but I need to know if I can get the parts. I have attached a picture of both flaps.
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flapmetal.jpg
The metal flap "above" has plastic button which is lying next to the flap, broken in two pieces. The rest of the broken button can be seen through the floor vent, it is an arm. So I will need to get the arm. Wonder if it is available?
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/flapplastic.jpg
The plastic flap "above" can be JB Welded back into place which I will do tonight Any suggestions before I proceed?????

[shogun]

Great, man!
Pics will go onto shogun's site.
If you have anything to add or more pics, just add it here, Hairywithit will make the final write up in concentrated form with pics.
Will help a lot of people with same problem.

[Kibokojoe]

I will work on the second flap actuator arm tomorrow


Great, man!
Pics will go onto shogun's site.
If you have anything to add or more pics, just add it here, Hairywithit will make the final write up in concentrated form with pics.
Will help a lot of people with same problem.

[Kibokojoe]

Here is my first attempt at the actuator arm. Need to find some 3/8" brass rod, to make the last part
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/firstattempt.jpg

[Kibokojoe]

Well I finally got it all back together today. Here is a pic of the actuator arm I created. I built it out of three pieces of aluminum and welded them together with alumiweld. Amazing stuff... Anyway arm worked and you can do this repair without removing the IHKA. I could make this arm for other members but it takes about 3 hours of machining and welding, so it won't be cheap ;). Also found out why the flap broke. The stepper motor was pulling to far so installed a shim between the stepper motor arm and the stop. I also reinforced the mounting bracket with JB Weld, filled in all the holes and then wrapped it with parafilm until it set up.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj225/kibokojoe/actuatorarm.jpg

[shogun]

very nice!
Post that also on Bimmerboard E32 forum with the pics and a short writeup. Maybe you also mention the price for these parts if someone is interested to buy.
Use the test forum there first to see if the pics work.
Thanks a lkot, good stuff!

[NoBummers]

I have a somewhat related question. I am finding some green residue on the ground under where the Air Conditioning Condensation drains out thru the two hoses.. I initially feared it was Green Anti freeze leaking into the air box from faulty heater core o-rings then I realized my Windshield Washer Fluid is also Green but the dripping is not really where the washer Reservoir is located. I then realized it is perhaps just washer fluid from the excessive use due to many insect suicides on my windshield which has been sucked into the air intake at the base of the windshield and is mixing in the air box with condensation and draining out . The residue is not smelling like antifreeze and is not really oily like that.. am I correct that this is probably washer fluid that has splashed up and been sucked into the Air box?

Heck,while I'm asking... With all settings on the manual climate control set to full cold, center wheel all the way down, two dials all the way to the left(blue) and the AC button the Manual says to keep the bottom(foot well) slider slightly open for the temp sensor but I then get Hot Air to my feet which is very uncomfortable in the summer when I want the AC. is this a stepper motor /Mixing Flap issue or it the Heater valves faulty? When I turn the center vent wheel the temp will change but I thought when the wheel was all the way to cold the water valves were shutting completely and should't allow any heated coolant into the Heater Core at all which must be happening if I feel heat to my feet even with all setting to cold....

jehu- nice attempt to threadjack- I actually have same problem. any luck on fixes? am looking at controller/ temp sensor and heater valve

[Jehu]

jehu- nice attempt to threadjack- I actually have same problem. any luck on fixes? am looking at controller/ temp sensor and heater valve


I'm satisfied my explaination for the green residue under the car is that it is windshield washer fluid entering the air box and draining out with the A/C Condensation.

As far as the other...not yet.. I have to take the dash apart soon to replace a CD changer cable and change some bulbs in the cluster. At that Time I'll inspect the stepper motors and see if I notice any arms broken.

The plastic mount for the bottom belden cable has broken off the air box.I'll JB Weld that on then too... This isn't a huge problem for me yet becasue despite daily blather about global warming the temps up here are unseasonably low and the present functioning is adequate but when Hot Summer temps arrive I'm sure I'll have motivation to try changing the Climate Controls, The IHKR Unit and the heater/Water Valves..

[Kibokojoe]

I have two left and I am going to keep one for a pattern :)

[shogun]

as I had a similar problem with no air from vents, I investigated further on my car and we found no broken stepper motor mount, but the stepper motor did not hold in place with the clips, so we fixed it with zip tie, works like a charm now.
Have made a youtube on my spare IHKA unit to show how the flaps work

How it works aircon top flap control - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzWommF60A&list=UUJ-2mlpcE7qOUN0dHkbYIwQ&index=1&feature=plcp)

Stepper motor IHKA picture by shogun_bucket - Photobucket (http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/shogun_bucket/?action=view&current=R2049120222BEH.jpg)
Applies to defroster flap and temperature regulator flap, 2 actuators per car

stepper motor IHKA picture by shogun_bucket - Photobucket (http://s71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/shogun_bucket/?action=view&current=R204986459OES.jpg)
Only applies to leg room flap, rear flap, air re-cycling flap and fresh air flap. Six actuators per car

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/hairwithit/actuator%20released%20from%20holder.jpg

[Kibokojoe]

Wish there was a way of installing the replacement arm without having to tear the dash apart

[Kibokojoe]

Ok so how did you do the zip tie repair? Hey my son just landed a 91 325i convertible, know anyone who knows how to modify the electric top to manual?


After 4 months of operation I can confirm that the zip tie solution on my car works like a charm, no modification required so far. So I leave it as it is now.

[shogun]

like in the pic here

fixing broken vent stepper motors (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/200205/)

E36 325i convertible for your son? Congratulations. I also have an E36 M3, 1998 model. Love it.

For conversion of electric top to manual you might ask on BF E36 section, there is especially one expert called flyfishvt, he owns a 97 328i Vert and knows this best.

[shogun]

Temporary zip tie fix still works, but next time I am in there I will make a solid metal bracket for the stepper motors on each side.

[shogun]

DIY: IHKA mixer flap motor mount completely broken, Repair with pics https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2450902-DIY-IHKA-mixer-flap-motor-mount-completely-broken