Advice on buying an E39

[Evan]

Greetings from South Beach, Gents

My E34 has been a great car for the past five years but as I approach 170K miles, I'm feeling the pain in my pocket from more frequent repairs and I'm contemplating buying an E39.

So I've taken a look around and I see some great 2000 528i with Sport packages among other cars but I'm wondering what really is my best bet in making this purchase?

Does anyone have a suggestion or some experience in buying one of these cars? Are there any issues I should look for? Which model has the best rep? I'm approved for up to $25K and I'd love to hear your advice/suggestions/etc.

Cheers,
Evan

[Martin in Bellevue]

So, you're spending more than a car payment on maintenance, each month? My experiences with the wife's x5, lead me to believe the newer models may have more mainetance issues. The crappy plastic is making big strides with the newer models.

[Evan]

Yeah I'm spending about $350 a month. Thanks, Martin -- anyone else?

[Craig]

Greetings from South Beach, Gents

My E34 has been a great car for the past five years but as I approach 170K miles, I'm feeling the pain in my pocket from more frequent repairs and I'm contemplating buying an E39.



I am not positive, but doesn't BMW offer a drivetrain warranty on all "Certified Pre-Owned" cars up to 100,000 miles? That's what I'd shoot for, buy one from a BMW dealer and see if you can't get a CPO car with a warranty.

I wouldn't touch a new one without a warranty. Too much weird **** to work on and all those electronics are just waiting to break and cost you some money.

[George M]

my input would be...the newer cars are more complex and therefore are more prone to breakage although much lower in their duty cycle of R&R so many times less likely to need repair at less than 100k miles which most Bimmers will run to without needing too much. After that...hold on....Katie bar the door when parts start to wear...will be shades of the E-32 750iL...only worse...shades of EDC replacement...lol...a veritable flood gate...especially the very new Bimmers which have techno-trick everything....gonna be a real heavy hit to keep them running right.
Just returned from a 500 mile road trip up North for the 4th. My E-32 at almost 150k literally ran perfect. Do think it may be time to swap out rear subframe bushings. Anybody have the BMW spec puller they would like to rent me for a week? Is there an M5 rear sub frame bushing P/N that may be stiffer than the stock E-34 rear subframe bushings?...not unlike a different spec P/N for the front thrust arm bushings?
Thanks,
George
will try to get the CD43 radio installed in the next couple of weeks.

[Evan]

Katie bar the door? That doesn't give me much confidence either lol

Should I just keep my E34 then... it has no rust... it runs solid... I could redo the entire body and interior... upgrade the suspension... freshen up the top of the engine... and get ready to redo the tranny... about $6K and I get to keep my E34 indefinitely!

Are there any E39 drivers here?

Cheers,
Evan

[Robin-535im]

Hi Evan,

While in the midst of a car search (that ended up with a 1990 535im) I test drove most of the used E39's at the local lot. 528's, 530's, 540's, all standard except for an auto 530.

The cars were nice and tight, smelled really good, and felt solid (except the 540 6-speed, that thing had been driven hard and it really showed).

Thing is, it would cost a few hundred more a month for an E39, and the smile on my face was a wee bit smaller with the E39's than with the 535 5-speed. The E34 feels really tight once you get the kinks ironed out and none of the E39's were any better. Only newer, and more expensive, and scarier for the home mechanic because of the newer technology and plastic parts.

I decided to stay with an E34 that was already souped-up (saving me the time) and pay 1/3 the monthly payment. You might consider selling your E34 and buying another that's been refurbished (Gordon, Bruno, - you still got any cars left?). Cars cycle in maintenenace costs, high for a while, low for a while, try to find one that's reaching the low point in the cycle and drive it for a few more years until the ///M5 V10's come out. :)

- Robin

[George M]

you can go either way really Evan. It would be likely cheaper to hold onto your E-34.
Depends on how mechanical you are and how much time you are willing to spend on a daily driver. Personally I prefer more or less a turn key daily driver and have a hobby car like an old Bimmer to wrench on without a major time constraint. Many are swapping out their aging E-34's for a newer E-39. The E-39 is really a very nice car IMHO to upgrade to...reasonably priced, nice looking, solid driveline and not too complicated if you stick with the six cylinder version. Personally my choice would be a '99 or '00 528i 5speed with Sport package including the beautiful no. 5 X-spoke wheels and winter package...but I don't need a lot of horsepower to be happy in favor of a better balance of fuel economy and make no mistake...gas prices will continue to rise in the next couple of years...as it probably should as we continue to deplete our finite world reserve of petroleum or rely on hostile foreign sources and of course will discourage the purchase of fuel inefficient vehicles if fuel cost continue to rise....
I digress.
George

[mikemaster]

If you go for an e39, hold out for a 2001 530 if you're a fan of the 6 cylinder. The 2001's have updated headlights/tails. If you need more power try the 540/6, or wait a couple years and save for the m5. IMO though, the e39 leans more towards luxury, less towards sport, even though it's faster. It's just the feel you get from the car, boatlike at times.

http://www.hostedimage.com/is.php?i=17941&img=Camera_Pics_03-27-04_048.jpg

[Unregistered]

You could pickup another E34. I see many low mileage E34 at rock bottom prices. One of my friends just purchased 1995 525i with 64k miles for $6800. How could you go wrong with this deal? E34s are a bargin compare to E39s and also more reliable. For the money, E34 is a better choice. Important thing is to pick one up with low low miles so you would have to worry about high many expensive repairs!

[MicahO]

If you are planning on trading the current maintenance payment(s) on the e34 for a regular car payment, then don't mess around. Get something that will require no maintenance and minimal downtime. As many noted, the newer the BMW, the more complicated and confusing systems there are to get into a state. The newest of them, thankfully, are so ugly that those of us with taste would never contemplate buying something so technically complicated!

If you are really thinking about it, think about something either new or fairly 'young' in the CPO cycle. You really do NOT want to step 'up' to something newer that requires a regular payment PLUS maintenance.

[Warren N.CA]

possibly higher maintenance costs. You say you're spending more than $350/month? But for how many months? My 535i had a relatively high cost year in 2003 (about $3000), but in 2004, so far, just parts for routine mainenance.





Greetings from South Beach, Gents

My E34 has been a great car for the past five years but as I approach 170K miles, I'm feeling the pain in my pocket from more frequent repairs and I'm contemplating buying an E39.

So I've taken a look around and I see some great 2000 528i with Sport packages among other cars but I'm wondering what really is my best bet in making this purchase?

Does anyone have a suggestion or some experience in buying one of these cars? Are there any issues I should look for? Which model has the best rep? I'm approved for up to $25K and I'd love to hear your advice/suggestions/etc.

Cheers,
Evan

[Warren N.CA]

Do NOT pay $6000 to refurbish. Sell the car and get an E34 that's in better shape. But not an E39.




Katie bar the door? That doesn't give me much confidence either lol

Should I just keep my E34 then... it has no rust... it runs solid... I could redo the entire body and interior... upgrade the suspension... freshen up the top of the engine... and get ready to redo the tranny... about $6K and I get to keep my E34 indefinitely!

Are there any E39 drivers here?

Cheers,
Evan

[Warren N.CA]

CPO warranty is not very comprehensive, and does NOT cover maintenance. Lease a new one is the viable alternative. Lease payments should be maybe $700- 800/month. And higher insurance costs Hmm. $350 a month maintenance doesn't seem so bad now, does it?




If you are planning on trading the current maintenance payment(s) on the e34 for a regular car payment, then don't mess around. Get something that will require no maintenance and minimal downtime. As many noted, the newer the BMW, the more complicated and confusing systems there are to get into a state. The newest of them, thankfully, are so ugly that those of us with taste would never contemplate buying something so technically complicated!

If you are really thinking about it, think about something either new or fairly 'young' in the CPO cycle. You really do NOT want to step 'up' to something newer that requires a regular payment PLUS maintenance.

[Warren N.CA]

I think over 120K might be better, because the car will probably already have stuff like new radiator, exhaust, and clutch. I selected my 535i partly because the P.O. had already eaten these items. IMHO, you want a car in great condition, that has had good maintenance. High miles will save you money on the purchase price, but it doesn't hurt the car much, provided it has been cared for. And don't get an E34 V8, if you want modest maintenance costs.





You could pickup another E34. I see many low mileage E34 at rock bottom prices. One of my friends just purchased 1995 525i with 64k miles for $6800. How could you go wrong with this deal? E34s are a bargin compare to E39s and also more reliable. For the money, E34 is a better choice. Important thing is to pick one up with low low miles so you would have to worry about high many expensive repairs!

[MicahO]

CPO warranty is not very comprehensive, and does NOT cover maintenance. Lease a new one is the viable alternative. Lease payments should be maybe $700- 800/month. And higher insurance costs Hmm. $350 a month maintenance doesn't seem so bad now, does it?

True - I should have mentioned that by 'young' I mean less than 4 years old. The first 4 years/50K miles you even get your brakes included in maintenance, then let CPO take over.

$700? Yoikes, don't know what you're looking to drive, but at those prices it must be something that's been Bangleized. Living proof you can have a non-Bangle-mobile, nicely optioned, for ~$400 per month, no maintenance:

http://www.bimmernut.com/~micah/images/330zhp/FrontThreeQuarter.JPG

[George M]

Micah...I believe the E-46 was the first BMW Bangle designed.
:-)
The thing about this or any car debate is...there is no free lunch. You can somewhat compensate for out of pocket cost to drive something real nice by doing your own wrenching but bottom line is if you want to drive something real nice it is gonna cost you either way. An example is my E-32. Is is mint but I will excuse myself from public scorn by not posting how much I have invested...too painful to admit anyway :-) and I have done all my own wrenching.
George....after the E-46, Bangle got into the hard drugs and started hanging out at gay bars...lol.

[Bruno]

Mine is sold, but a lot of people are telling me that they like the E34 so much better than the E39...

Maybe I should have kept my 535i... Oh well it is sold now.

I should go test drive a couple of E39 and if I don't like them, I will buy an E36.

[MicahO]

he didn't 'Bangle-iz'e it. That started later.

I'm still irked by a comment he made to an interviewer - quoth he "Leadership is taking people where they don't want to go." I disrespectfully disagree. Leadership, im my estimation, is taking people where they didn't know they wanted to go. And that's not where he's taking me, or apparently many people.

But sales are still strong. Keep the company strong. That's a good thing for all of us who like the old iron.

......there are still a few months left to own the last of the good looking BMW's, new from the showroom.......

;)

[George M]

I hear ya Micah...was just razing about the E-46...an abberation of sorts...beautiful car that was somehow exempt from Bangle's convoluted view of leading people to where they don't want to go...lol. Agree with you as usual. In some ways I find the new BMW's laughable. Hard to find a shread of purity to them. One perspective is BMW is hustling the public...pandering mostly the wanna be almost affluent who are trying to prove that they are... by creating ugly cars that are unnecessarily complicated to be different and cost more to set themselves apart.
A self fulfilling prophecy. Just deserts to the E-65 crowd in one sense who bought a status symbol.
George

[Elekta]

Get this one instead. Low miles, 1995 525im black on black (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6008&item=2483889440&rd=1)

http://images.andale.com/f2/102/107/10520330/1089646234185_DSC00073.JPG

No question that there are better versions of what you know and love.

[Jimmy535i]

I just sold a 1998 528i with 175K miles on it and it ran perfectly.
Maintenance is about the same as the e34.

If you are buying a pre-owned 2000 with lets say 41K miles on
it. The wholesale price is currently less than $21,200.
This is roughly what the dealer would offer the car to a wholesaler.
Which means the dealer would pay less than this number when buying it
on a trade-in.

Try to buy it as close to this price as you can. In September these cars
get marked down again.







possibly higher maintenance costs. You say you're spending more than $350/month? But for how many months? My 535i had a relatively high cost year in 2003 (about $3000), but in 2004, so far, just parts for routine mainenance.

[George M]

dam Jimmy...250k on your 90 735iL. I have the same car with 150k miles. Has the whole car been rebuilt including the engine?
George

[Rina120]

I had an e39 and although I liked it, I liked the e34 better.

While doing my search for my e39, I came across a 97 7-series at a BMW dealer with 76K miles. They care calling it CPO and it came with a 2 year BMW warranty (or 100K miles). They wanted $18 for it, but I am sure since it's been on their lot for a while they woudl go down.

I drove it and it's fricken beautiful! No maintenance except for wear and tear for two years! Maybe a good deal...

[George M]

I do find it quite remarkable that many who have owned both an E-34 and E-39 have actually preferred the E-34...really something...not everyone but many.
That black 525i 5 speed looks like a real nice car. Condition is everything however and hard to know what kind of shape it is in without and inspection or a board member driving it.
George

[Warren N.CA]

afford NOT to get one. But I'll try (not to) :)

[Unregistered]

I have to disagree. I have always purchased a used cars with around 40k to 65k miles. From all of the used cars I have purchased (that's 7 cars), they have been almost trouble FREE until they hit over 100k miles. From my experience, autos start to have major problems after 100k. I think a car with 120k is the worst. That's when you get more of a major problems with cars! Not at 68k miles! Besides, you could always purchase aftermarket extended warranty up to 100k miles. GOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND AN EXTENDED WARRANTY FOR A CAR WITH 120k MILES. I would never purchase a high mileage car unless the owner was frantic about maintenance and that's very very rare. Most people will only fix something that's broken to the point that either they can't stand it or not drivable.



I think over 120K might be better, because the car will probably already have stuff like new radiator, exhaust, and clutch. I selected my 535i partly because the P.O. had already eaten these items. IMHO, you want a car in great condition, that has had good maintenance. High miles will save you money on the purchase price, but it doesn't hurt the car much, provided it has been cared for. And don't get an E34 V8, if you want modest maintenance costs.

[Russell]

Where can you get a good aftermarket extended warranty on a car with less than 100,000 miles? I tried when I bought mine at 72,000 miles and could not find one that I felt I could trust.

Thanks,



I have to disagree. I have always purchased a used cars with around 40k to 65k miles. From all of the used cars I have purchased (that's 7 cars), they have been almost trouble FREE until they hit over 100k miles. From my experience, autos start to have major problems after 100k. I think a car with 120k is the worst. That's when you get more of a major problems with cars! Not at 68k miles! Besides, you could always purchase aftermarket extended warranty up to 100k miles. GOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND AN EXTENDED WARRANTY FOR A CAR WITH 120k MILES. I would never purchase a high mileage car unless the owner was frantic about maintenance and that's very very rare. Most people will only fix something that's broken to the point that either they can't stand it or not drivable.

[Jimmy535i]

dam Jimmy...250k on your 90 735iL. I have the same car with 150k miles. Has the whole car been rebuilt including the engine?
George

Just the usual maintenance for these cars.

1) Struts, Brakes, Control arms, Water pumps, fan clutches, light control
modules, brake light switch, AC conversion changing receiver drier only, Repaired seat cables to fix "seat back twist". The head was replaced by previous owner at 170K. I change trans fluid every 15K miles and engine oil every 3k - 4k. Bottom end of engine is original. Previous owner is BMW mechanic at dealership. I recently changed plugs and adjusted valves and was happy to see normal deposits on plugs.

Stay up on the maintenance and these cars and they can run a long time.

[MicahO]

Even BMW seems to prefer the e34 - for the e65 they started with the e34, and plus-sized it by 5% in all dimensions.

Unfortunately, about that time is when they started beating it with the Bangle-stick.

Many reviewers and testers have raved about the overall balance and driveability of the e39, particularly the 530i in Sport trim. (many of them have gone further to say that the e46 with the recent Performance Package has been the only chassis to exceed that great feel from the 530i Sport, but I digress.... :D ) Nevertheless, the original 'Son of Seven' e34 was/is the standard for the large Sport Sedan.


I do find it quite remarkable that many who have owned both an E-34 and E-39 have actually preferred the E-34...really something...not everyone but many.

[George M]

yup...the thing I really like about the E-34/32 is they feel and look like they were carved out of a block of wood....so solid...nothing quite like it....little pretense...pure
luxury/sport sedan.
George

[ryan roopnarine]

while everybody is talking about styling queues...can somebody explain why the the e32 has that beveled looking trunk edge? i always thought the e32 would have been better looking (more appropriate proportions) than the e34 if it didn't have that. is it functional in some way? both cars would have benefitted from rounded headlights (the positioning looks too abrupt to me) from the side. it looks like a nice profile until one's eyes arrive at the abrupt square headlamp datum.

[Elekta]

I do find it quite remarkable that many who have owned both an E-34 and E-39 have actually preferred the E-34...really something...not everyone but many.
That black 525i 5 speed looks like a real nice car. Condition is everything however and hard to know what kind of shape it is in without and inspection or a board member driving it.
George

There are plenty examples out there George. I just picked a 95 (vanos) with a stick. 95 makes it the youngest e34 you can get, and Florida makes no salt. Everything else you must examine in person or pay to get checked out.

Here's one with 36k (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6008&item=2483899137&rd=1)
But it's an autobox
http://photos2.ebizautos.com/145/378998_1_400.jpg

Autotrader (http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=530IT&start_year=1984&end_year=2005&min_price=&max_price=&distance=any&certified=n&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=BMW&address=78701&search_type=used&x=36&y=9) has two sweet 530ialusilTourer's under 60k with heated seats (lsd)
http://images.autotrader.com/images/2004/3/16/159/370/781442478.159370097.IM1.09.565x421_A.562x421.jpg

They're out there. A 92-93 535i 2nd owner with all records wouldn't be bad for 100-110k vehicle. That buys you a car for about 2 years and it's cheap. My wife will sell hers one day, and whoever gets that car will be very lucky (as long as they don't freak over shopping cart dings and paper sack swirls on the roof and trunk ;) )

But low milers are pref. I still haven't hit 100k on my Touring and I'm now in my 3rd summer. The more I drive it, the lower my per mile costs are getting. I'm in the e34 enjoyment part of the curve (nock on wood)

[Super90]

I tend to agree with most of what has been said. A few added points would be:

1) I do the majority of my own maintenance on my '94 530i, and my cost per month has averaged $150 over the past six years (~$10,000 total spent over 72 months). $10k sounds like a lot, but after doing the math, I think that is dirt cheap for a car that originally cost $50k + when new.

2) I have driven my Brother in-law's E39, and yes, it's a nice car, but build quality is not a nice, especially the interior. I think the new 5er's build quality is even worse.

3) I feel like things start breaking on these cars at about 65 to 70k miles, not 100k mi. Radiators, t-stat housings, water pumps, thrust arm bushings, shocks, etc. etc. That all happens between 65 and 80k miles. Bank on it. Suspension is already well worn by then. At 100k miles it is toast!

4) After thinking about the same thing for a long time, I figured that if I ever did get an E39, the 530i or the 528i with a manual gear box is the best of the bunch. V-8's are a headache (ask me how I know!). The 530i has lots of zip and is far more durable. 528 is a solid car, plenty sporty, but not quite a much power as the three liter. A good choice as well.

With 114k mi. on my '94, and having had a recent leakdown and compression done by my indy, I am keeping it and driving it for a while longer. I figure it has a new clutch, all new suspension (control arms, thrust arms, sway bar links, steering links, rear subframe bushings and pitman arms), recent radiator, water pump, etc., a new clutch, intake gaskets, steering hoses, etc. etc. There is no reason to trade it off. Heck, I think it drives as good if not better than that E39 525 did!!!

[Don]

F.W.I.W.

A couple of months ago, a Bimmer editoral stated that they thought Consumer Reports had no axes to grind in their research. They also wondered why BMW, VW,MB, Audi were not able to attain the low repair frequency of other Marques. They also believed that the German Makers needed to do something to improve the repair frequency. That said, F.W.I.W., the only E34 that C.R. classed as check rated for a used vehicle was the 1995. If my memory werves me correctly, only the 2002 and 2003 E39s were so rated.

Bimmer has also not been especially favorable towards the V8 engines due, not only to the E34 problems, but a number of problems in the engine used in the E39.


Don

[danzee]

When my E34 had about 170K on it I bought an 2000 528i Sport/Premium with 18K and a year left on the warranty. It's been two years and the E39 has done fine. The E39 has better performance, but I believe the E34 is fundamentally a better car from a quality perspective. I am glad I had the warranty on the E39 to get a bunch of annoyances fixed. Nothing major though. I have 45K on it now and it is performing just fine. My wife drives the E34 every day - its doing jusr great. I will look for another younger E34 when this one becomes a PITA. I drive the E34 when she lets me.
I have a friend with 1999 540 who reports no more trouble than I have with my 528. I paid 29K two years ago for my car on the road complete - "as new" condition with Zenons, auto wipers, heated seats, backup alarm, . . .. I don't know what the 540 cost my firend. I hope this helps.
Dan






Greetings from South Beach, Gents

My E34 has been a great car for the past five years but as I approach 170K miles, I'm feeling the pain in my pocket from more frequent repairs and I'm contemplating buying an E39.

So I've taken a look around and I see some great 2000 528i with Sport packages among other cars but I'm wondering what really is my best bet in making this purchase?

Does anyone have a suggestion or some experience in buying one of these cars? Are there any issues I should look for? Which model has the best rep? I'm approved for up to $25K and I'd love to hear your advice/suggestions/etc.

Cheers,
Evan