green antifreeze debate renewed

[Unregistered]

I've heard alot of debate over the "green stuff". so to be on the safe side, I went to the dealer to purchase the blue bmw fluid and was told that i should use the generic green fluid, since the newer stuff is more corrosive and would hurt my '94 530i . Does this make sense?

[DallasBill]

I have no idea, and have read about this debate for a number of years. My euro shop has always replaced w/ green and I have 70k miles on it since that started (110k total). I can understand, however, why others will use the blue.

[Rick]

I have always used green stuff. I don’t think color makes any difference. I was told to use just quality coolant and change it every 2 years. So that’s what I do and I have never had a cooling problem.

[632 Regal]

I'll break down and spend the extra 6 dollars every 2 years for the BMW coolant. I dont care how much research I have done on this subject it wasnt worth the trouble and there was still no concrete evidence of anything being "exactly" close.

[DallasBill]

I'll break down and spend the extra 6 dollars every 2 years for the BMW coolant. I dont care how much research I have done on this subject it wasnt worth the trouble and there was still no concrete evidence of anything being "exactly" close.A fair enough statement and I think you are really stating essentially what we are stating. Regardless of price (and that certainly was not my issue, as I didn't even know about the 'BMW/Mercedes blue' issue till 6 months ago), it ultimately depends on regular changes!

Beyond that, it's OEM vs Bimmer parts, IMHO. ;)

[Dan in NZ]

I discovered recently that my car had been running generic green. In the past year I've replaced the heater valves, main and aux water pump, the heater core is leaking and it's having the thermostat changed today. Coincidence???

[632 Regal]

"guest" posted that the dealer told him not to use BMW fluid...hmm, I dont get it. They still use aluminum blocks, heads, radiators and subsiquent parts. Why would the antifreeze all of a sudden be too corrosive? I know some dont use distilled water which in time tends to become adverse.

[Rick]

What do you mean generic green stuff? Are all green stuff generic? How long have you owned your car? Do you have service history? I think neglect is the most important factor. Also, remember that you own 14-year-old car. Coincidence??? Maybe or maybe not.




I discovered recently that my car had been running generic green. In the past year I've replaced the heater valves, main and aux water pump, the heater core is leaking and it's having the thermostat changed today. Coincidence???

[Dan in NZ]

It was just green, not bmw blue. No service history, got the car a year ago dirt cheap, then all those things failed in quick succession. I was expecting to replace a few things for the price I paid, NZD$6750 which is about USD$4000. A week ago I noticed the green coolant when I bled the system to try and solve some overheating (turned out to be a bad fan clutch).

[George M]

this issue just won't die.....die...die...lol. Enlightened car guys politely disagree on this subject. Bill states emphatically only use the BMW blue. Winfred says run the garden variety snake piss but changes it often. I am in the middle. I run the G-06 MB approved fluid with distilled water and change it often....at every fill up at the gas station..seriously every year or two. As Winfred has stated often, and no one can argue with any veracity, the primary reason for cooling system component failures is neglect i.e. leaving contaminanted fluid in the system instead of changing it every two years like you are supposed to...not the slight difference in chemistry between Prestone and BMW blue which are both glycol alcohol based. It has often times been reported that even BMW dealerships throughout the country don't use the BMW coolant. Many times a manufacturer will stick behind a particular fluid because of cost of certifying to a new one and the proprietary cost benefit. It is likely that G-05 which Zerex likely developed after BMW approved its G-48 formulation is actually better, not worse for even your BMW system. There is a spec sheet comparsion out on the web if anybody cares to compare A to B.
Like everybody else :-), I have made my decision.
George

[Dick Schneiders]

what is your feeling about the orange, Dexcool, stuff? I have heard many say to stay totally away from it in our cars, but others (on other sites) do disagree.

I ususally avoid anything that anybody has ever been quoted as saying "that stuff is terrible", so I wouldn't touch it. I figure why not spend a couple extra bucks and be safe, even if the money might be wasted. Probably too anal, but I have been called worse.

Dick Schneiders


this issue just won't die.....die...die...lol. Enlightened car guys politely disagree on this subject. Bill states emphatically only use the BMW blue. Winfred says run the garden variety snake piss but changes it often. I am in the middle. I run the G-06 MB approved fluid with distilled water and change it often....at every fill up at the gas station..seriously every year or two. As Winfred has stated often, and no one can argue with any veracity, the primary reason for cooling system component failures is neglect i.e. leaving contaminanted fluid in the system instead of changing it every two years like you are supposed to...not the slight difference in chemistry between Prestone and BMW blue which are both glycol alcohol based. It has often times been reported that even BMW dealerships throughout the country don't use the BMW coolant. Many times a manufacturer will stick behind a particular fluid because of cost of certifying to a new one and the proprietary cost benefit. It is likely that G-05 which Zerex likely developed after BMW approved its G-48 formulation is actually better, not worse for even your BMW system. There is a spec sheet comparsion out on the web if anybody cares to compare A to B.
Like everybody else :-), I have made my decision.
George

[Scott H]

about coolant. I asked them if they had any BMW coolant and the parts guy said "we have coolant for your car, but it's not 'BMW' coolant". I asked for more clarification, basically asked if it's green or blue, and he replied "it's regular green coolant, you want some or not?"

Needless to say, I have tried to steer any friend thinking of buying a BMW away from that dealer!

[ryan roopnarine]

the contention that "antifreeze is antifreeze" is simply wrong, much like pennzoil conventional is not the same as mobil 1. like oils, antifreezes each have their own additive packages. most consist of an additive pack of corrosion inhibitors which constitute between 4 to 8 percent of their contents. depending on the brand (or in this case, the type), this corrosion pack can have phosphates, silicates, or borates. aluminum head/bimetal engines like the ones in our cars need some silicates for optimal protection, and were designed to NOT use antifreeze with corrosion packages that consist of phosphates for pH reasons. let me make this abundantly clear THE ETH. GLYCOL NEVER WEARS OUT. the inhibition pack does. as it does, the dielectric properties of the antifreeze change, and rust and pitting and electrolysis and other crap happens. in north america, you can go to autozone, DAP, canadian tire, napa.......and buy the low silicate mercedes stuff for less than the cost of the bmw. even if you go to the merc. dealer, their stuff is usually cheaper than the bmw. if you choose to use green, go ahead and do so, just don't try to rationalize your decision upon the fact that your car is not brand new, or because a label on the bottle sez "phosphate free". phosphate free green means that its buffered for ph reasons, NOT that it doesn't actually contained aforementioned materials. winfred can tear his car down with a speed unimaginable to most of the shadtrees on this board, his **** had its headgasket replaced, and is probably spotless inside, can you say that with 100% certainty for your OWN vehicle???

[George M]

Dick...you are doing the right thing...everybody has a comfort level and you are within yours which is a good thing. Always better to err on the side of caution. There has been a lot of controversy between mixing the poly based orange stuff and completely different common glycol based antifreeze chemistries. One can take issue with the poly based orange stuff in its own right but conventional wisdom is that Dexcool derivatives is more caustic when used in ferrous metal and not aluminum engines. I run the orange stuff in my all aluminum Saturn engine per specification and sleep very soundly at night though change it out like all coolant every 2 years not 5 years. I have read both positions...mixing the different coolants can cause sludging and also from reliable sources that there is no foul if residual of either is in your cooling system. Not advisable however to mix them with equal parts :-). Lastly Dick...you can't go wrong with BMW blue. And Ryan...there isn't enough bandwidth to rebut what you wrote, so I won't :-)
George

[Rick]

Which dealer is that? Patrick, Motor Werks, Knaus, or Fields?



about coolant. I asked them if they had any BMW coolant and the parts guy said "we have coolant for your car, but it's not 'BMW' coolant". I asked for more clarification, basically asked if it's green or blue, and he replied "it's regular green coolant, you want some or not?"

Needless to say, I have tried to steer any friend thinking of buying a BMW away from that dealer!

[632 Regal]

the contention that "antifreeze is antifreeze" is simply wrong, much like pennzoil conventional is not the same as mobil 1. like oils, antifreezes each have their own additive packages. most consist of an additive pack of corrosion inhibitors which constitute between 4 to 8 percent of their contents. depending on the brand (or in this case, the type), this corrosion pack can have phosphates, silicates, or borates. aluminum head/bimetal engines like the ones in our cars need some silicates for optimal protection, and were designed to NOT use antifreeze with corrosion packages that consist of phosphates for pH reasons. let me make this abundantly clear THE ETH. GLYCOL NEVER WEARS OUT. the inhibition pack does. as it does, the dielectric properties of the antifreeze change, and rust and pitting and electrolysis and other crap happens. in north america, you can go to autozone, DAP, canadian tire, napa.......and buy the low silicate mercedes stuff for less than the cost of the bmw. even if you go to the merc. dealer, their stuff is usually cheaper than the bmw. if you choose to use green, go ahead and do so, just don't try to rationalize your decision upon the fact that your car is not brand new, or because a label on the bottle sez "phosphate free". phosphate free green means that its buffered for ph reasons, NOT that it doesn't actually contained aforementioned materials. winfred can tear his car down with a speed unimaginable to most of the shadtrees on this board, his **** had its headgasket replaced, and is probably spotless inside, can you say that with 100% certainty for your OWN vehicle???