Why does BMW continue to make 525s?

[Jason]

Can someone please explain this to me. I could be wrong but didnt they end production of e39 525s when the 540 came out and then reintroduced it towards the end of the run? why? and why continue with the new ones? I could see how this might be a viable engine option in Europe but i dont get it for the US market. I never thought the 528 was a knockout performer, so why bring back an even less powerful engine? I would think they would be trying to put more power in the cars given how much japanese competitors have upped their numbers for alot less money. anyone have some interesting insight on this one? I saw a bangled 525i this morning on the way to work and its been on my mind all day...
J

[ryan roopnarine]

i believe that that particular engine displacement/horsepower output combination is a significant turning point for insurance rates in germany or europe, so they end up shipping them here anyways. ford/chevy/daimler still make pushrodded things that make less than that with more displacement, though :D

[Warren N.CA]

the same as the output of the engine in the earlier E39 528i, with the E39 530i having an even higher output engine.



Can someone please explain this to me. I could be wrong but didnt they end production of e39 525s when the 540 came out and then reintroduced it towards the end of the run? why? and why continue with the new ones? I could see how this might be a viable engine option in Europe but i dont get it for the US market. I never thought the 528 was a knockout performer, so why bring back an even less powerful engine? I would think they would be trying to put more power in the cars given how much japanese competitors have upped their numbers for alot less money. anyone have some interesting insight on this one? I saw a bangled 525i this morning on the way to work and its been on my mind all day...
J

[Warren N.CA]

the same as the output of the engine in the earlier E39 528i, with the E39 530i having an even higher output engine.



Can someone please explain this to me. I could be wrong but didnt they end production of e39 525s when the 540 came out and then reintroduced it towards the end of the run? why? and why continue with the new ones? I could see how this might be a viable engine option in Europe but i dont get it for the US market. I never thought the 528 was a knockout performer, so why bring back an even less powerful engine? I would think they would be trying to put more power in the cars given how much japanese competitors have upped their numbers for alot less money. anyone have some interesting insight on this one? I saw a bangled 525i this morning on the way to work and its been on my mind all day...
J

[Warren N.CA]

E60 has the same 6-cyl engines as late E39.

[Phil M]

think they'll ever make a 340i?

and could you even imagine a 360?!

what about an X7?

and what exactly does the "i" (like 540i) mean anyway? i know in the 740iL the L = long wheelbase. and in the 328is the s = sport/coupe. and x means 4 wheel drive such as an X5 or the 325ix

i ponder questions like these almost every day

[bfd]

One of the reasons BMW offers the 525i is price point. There are people out there who are willing to pay $40K for a car and not care about straight line performance. The 525i is a solid engine that allows BMW to offer a 5 series car "under" $40K (list msrp is $39,800). People who buy this car will compare it to Japanese cars and may or may not be impressed more with things like name and gadgets like idrive, active roll stabilization, and adaptive headlights.

For those who need more, BMW currently offers the 325hp $545i starting at $58,300 ($55k if you want an auto) and of course, for the patient ones with lots of dough, the M5, expect it to sell in the $90-100K range!

[Phil M]

the new m5 is almost overkill. did anyone see its nurburgring numbers? completed a lap 25 seconds faster than the previous m5. jesus christ. and this thing is a family sedan!

[bfd]

and what exactly does the "i" (like 540i) mean anyway? i know in the 740iL the L = long wheelbase. and in the 328is the s = sport/coupe. and x means 4 wheel drive such as an X5 or the 325ix

i ponder questions like these almost every day

In the old days, i = injected

[dave b]

the dealer told me i = injected, a = automatic when asked about a 318ia

They make the 525i simply because there is demand for it. Not only that, but I think it's a pretty good engine....of course, I'm biased

[Anton CH.]

What is wrong with the a 2.5 liter engine? My m50 puts out a lot less tourqe and hp than the current 2.5 but I do like the engine. It feels as light as a 4 cylinder but the smoothness of a v6. It gets great fuel economy and has plenty of power for communitng and city driving. Just don't expect to win any drag races with it. The car was built with just that in mind.

[bimmerd00d]

the new m5 is almost overkill. did anyone see its nurburgring numbers? completed a lap 25 seconds faster than the previous m5. jesus christ. and this thing is a family sedan!


25? or do you mean 2.5? 25 seems like a HUGE gap

[tim s]

which indicated the eta motor.
tim s.

[Bill R.]

http://www.bimmernut.com/%7Ebillr/images/models.jpg
which indicated the eta motor.
tim s.

[Phil M]

no. i mean 25 seconds. not 2.5. it is a engineering marvel.

"BMW claims the new M5 can lap the Nürburgring, where much of its development was done, in under 8 minutes, 25 seconds less than the outgoing M5."

that is:
18 secs faster than a ferrari 355
15 secs faster than a bmw z8
10 secs faster than a ferrari 360 modena, lambo diablo sv, and porsche 996 gt3

porsche 996 turbo did a lap in 7m56s and a porsche 996 gt2 did it in 7m46s





25? or do you mean 2.5? 25 seems like a HUGE gap

[rph]

which indicated the eta motor.
tim s.

[jplacson]

With that reasoning... why bother with anything other than an M-series at all?

Some people just don't need to hit 60mph in under 8 sec.

Others don't want to waste fuel

Others just don't need the power

Others just don't care.

I personally feel that the 2.5L engine of BMW is a perfect 'balance' for everyday driving for a majority of people. It's strong enough to be a bit better than the next guy, uses up fairly little fuel for the output it gives, and is a decent performer all-around.

I find it funny how Jap cars are now punching up their displacement, when even american companies see the value of fuel economy. I personally hate gas guzzlers. I'd love it it BMW could come up with an electric/hydrogen/or hybrid that wouldn't sacrifice performance.

Electric cars have coma LONG way... there's this car called the EV1 that can outsprint a Ferrari to 60mph.

BMW's hybrid engine has more torque than 3 diesel X5s

[George M]

a small thesis could be written as to why the 525i exists in the product line...not everybody wants a pure performance machine...likes high fuel consumption...higher insurance rates...most like the safety and/or engineering and perception of reliability :-) with power not as high a priority...and some poor souls purely want the BMW badge in their driveway for the prestige and want the cheapest BMW available with some size. Gonna wager a safe guess and say that 60% of BMW owners don't know a thing about them...probably a higher number....what makes them so repugnant to a lot of people.

[bjl4776]

Isn't the I for fuel injection, not sure though bu that is what i thought

[ryan roopnarine]

its entirely for power/insurance/locomotion reasons. the basic m5x motor has been used in cars since 1989 (in europe), and in that time, the hp has not broken 200 hp/200 ftlbs, the displacement remains the same, despite having moved from standard cams to single valve timing to double valve timing in that time. the only result this netted has been to flattening out the power output and an improvement of about 2 mpg. i think that this indicates some deliberate behavior on bmw's part, and not necessarily just a desire to produce the '25 as an entry level model. if we are going to speculate, i'd say that it probably doesn't cost them that much to ship a couple over on a boat if they are already making them for europe. if you haven't had the misfortune of driving a 4 cyl 5 series, you don't quite understand the need for this modicum of power. i believe that stephen borsch www.homeofsbc.com explains some of the reasons why he switched from a 7 to a 5 back to a 7, and i believe that the engine classification WRT displacement had a big hand in this.

[bahnstormer]

the 525 is there for sales too.
MANY people want a bmw and to offer it for cheap with the 2.5L will yeild
more sales. its the poor man's 5 series. =]

[Rick L]

Poor man's 5 series??? When I purchased my 1995 525i, I didn’t purchased 525 because of cheaper price. I thought 525 offered better gas mileage, reliability, and ease of maintenance. I’m not a mechanic but I do like to work on my own cars. I feel much more comfortable working on this six than the big V8. I did look at 530 and 540 but decided to pass on these two models because of the engine issues. Poor man’s 5 series? I think NOT!



the 525 is there for sales too.
MANY people want a bmw and to offer it for cheap with the 2.5L will yeild
more sales. its the poor man's 5 series. =]

[jplacson]

And with that, all Bimmer's are just poor man's versions of their M-counterparts..so like I said in my earlier post... following that logic... why does BMW bother making anything else other than their M-line?

[jplacson]

And with that... why not scrap the M3 engine all together and just use the new V10 engine of the M5 on the M3? Or use the engine of the Mclaren F1 Roadcar?

Or better yet, why not use the same engine found on the FW26 on all BMWs? That way BMW can just concentrate on making one engine for all their cars.

[Jason]

Im not anti small displacement, but these engines must really be similarly priced from the production standpoint, they should price the 530 at the what the 525 is now, and leave the 2.5 out of the 5 series. I dont think economy is an issue, because if it were, an accord would solve that. how can you be worried about a few bucks more at the pump and be spending upwards of 40k on a car? the 530 has to offer similar economy, and much better performance. And a light engine in a nearly 2 ton car??? does it make a difference at that point? how much of a weight savings are we talking about (vs. the 530)? I'm not knocking the engine, or the E34 525 owners out there, that car made sense to me (when it comes to E34's, no offense, but its the replacement of the 535 w/ the 530 that i don't get, I mean they had to know they had a good thing in the M30 why not improve on it?). And lets not talk about what the new cars look like with those small wheels...

[sbcncsu]

The E39 525i is very slightly decontented to reduce additional cost. For instance the on board computer has only 4 functions versus 11 for the 530i. The interior is the same until you get into the sport package. For the 525i, the seats are not the fully adjustable units in the 530i nor is the steering wheel the nice 3 spoke version. It still has the suspension, wheels and xenons that the 530 SP has. Also, the useless rear cup holder is deleted on the 525i.

I own one and it is a great car. It will get out of its own way and is great on the highway. Cruising at an average speed of 75 MPH, I can expect 31 mpg. Plus, turn the traction control off and it WILL power slide on imperfect/dirty/wet roads, something the old E34 525i I had would not do.

[jplacson]

Well, to be honest, I'd rather spend $50K on a car that's frugal on fuel, than $30K on some V8 that drinks like a fish... I'm just waiting for the day when alt fuels come into the picture. I'm not worried about the cost but more of the sheer irresponsibility of wasting fuel. I love BMW engines because they don't waste as much fuel as a similar displacement engine from the next guy. Efficiency is maximized and that's what I've always liked about them.

I can see your point. I drive a 520i, and the difference between mine and the 525i is minimal as well, but with a much larger performance gap.

My point is... "performance" is very relative. Some people consider the 525 just right... others, nothing short of the M5 will do.

BMWs displacements have always been better than the next guy... if they can't outdo raw HP, they make up for it with the rest of the car.

My E34 may have a 2.0L engine, but gross weight of the 520i is only 1400kg...quite far from the 'near 2-ton' weight of the bigger engined 5ers. My overall weight is actually closer to that of an E36 318i/320i

Small wheels provide comfort, durability, and more silence. Granted they don't look as good to newer people... design and purpose are also very subjective.

[bahnstormer]

why does porsche make the boxster, and the boxster s ?
cuz ppl will pay for the name "porsche" and want it really
cheap. of course car enthusiasts like us will take the 525
for other reasons, but remeber we are the minority. most
ppl don't give 2 cents about mpg or repairs or performance.
they just want the nice bmw emblem to show off, and a comfy
seat heater for their overweight bums

the 525i sells the most. the 325i sells the most...its like selling
bread, people will always buy it. lol that might be a bad example,
but its the base car that makes the most income for the car company
that lets them use thier profits to make nice cars....

again lets go to porchse...they make an suv, sell a lot, make money and
develop the carrera gt with that money. that's a BUSINESS PLAN because
car manufaturers are a BUSINESS 1st =[ there are some exceptions, but
they are mainly exotics.

[winfred]

why did bmw make such fine slugs as the 720 and the 518, because if you build it someone will be cheep enough to want the stripped version of it just to have one anyway they can afford, besides if they just built m5s it would not be a cool car, it would just be a car