OT... What car has caught my eye lately.. Scion TC...

[DaCan23]

What a nice little coupe and cheap too... tried to get a friend to buy one but she opted for an Acura TSX for an extra $10k

[AllanS]

There was a review on the TC on speed a few weeks back- looked very clean, and it has excellent performance. 160hp too.

[George M]

saw that...am a big fan of the TC...quick, Toyota build quality...looks good, great mpg...priced right...very nice little car and will outrun my Saturn SC2 5 speed at 124 hp..mine is a bit more...after a 50 shot install...different ballgame :-)

[Mr Project]

saw that...am a big fan of the TC...quick, Toyota build quality...looks good, great mpg...priced right...very nice little car and will outrun my Saturn SC2 5 speed at 124 hp..mine is a bit more...after a 50 shot install...different ballgame :-)

Yeah, a friend of mine just bought on here in Omaha. I'll be driving it tomorrow and let you all know my thoughts.

We'll be working on his 1990 300zx TT. Anybody work on one of those before? This is the 5th time he's (I've helped twice) replaced the turbos, all with the engine in place. Incredible. This thing has to be in the top 3 hardest (non-exotic) cars to work on ever made.

[TC535i]

I've been looking at em for about 4-5 months now... if I was in a position to get a new car, I would seriously consider this thing (w/the TRD supercharger, ~200hp).

[Brian C.]

...compared to the other recent "wheeled cargo-containers." To me, the Element, the G-class....yadda-yadda....all look hideously designed, whereas the xB, (that's the square one right?) is actually very funky looking. As I understand it, the concept was to sell a vehicle that could then be modded as the buyer wished. Sort of a blank canvas. I see some stock ones here, but not any tricked-out ones yet. Supposedly there's a aftermarket turbo set-up that will make it fly.

Brian C.

[George M]

Toyota is once again very forward thinking in their approach to offering these cars targeting young people. The demographic isn't all young either as old car guys like me happen to love what they are doing as well. Their support of the tuner market is spot on by offering performance pieces to trick out each car on almost a custom basis.
American car companies are well behind the curve on this and losing out on this huge and growing market that sets the bar for future car buying as this generation of first time car buyers ages.
If I went for the TC...would have to be the 200 hp supercharged version. A blower and tuner car is the perfect marriage. I am sure you would agree Brian with your PT cruiser.

[casurfer911]

If i did spend the 17k on one plus the 3k for a supercharger, your getting into wrx territory and it is still front wheel drive, that totally blows it.

[Mr Project]

Well, put maybe 20-25 miles on my buddy's tC last weekend:

Handling: Well, not great. It's not a sports car, it's not really even a sports coupe in feel. There is quite a bit of body roll, and it's rather softly sprung. The shocks are nicely valved, however, not terribly under-damped, and the ride is very comfortable. In a corner you constantly feel the height of the car, and the body control is not wonderful. Overall available grip is high, though, and understeer take a while to set it. Steering is nice and tight, nicely weighted with ok feedback.

Power: Pretty good. Really nice low-end torque. You can lug this thing around with the A/C on in traffice at 2k rpm with no problem. Only had 200 miles on it, so I didn't wind it out, but it's not a wind-it-out type of motor. Great for a daily around-town car with a low, fairly broad, powerband. (kinda like an M30 :) ) The shifter is not great. Kinda hard to find some gears, with a rubbery, isolated feel. Not real impressed here. It's really, really, really quiet, too. I mean quiet. Like I wasn't sure I'd started it, and tooling around, you don't really even hear the engine unless you're up over 2-2.5k rpm.

Interior: Well, it's a cheap car with a cheap interior. It's attractive, and the seats are a nice blend of comfortable and supportive, but the dash material, and the upper door panels, is some kind of wavy textured rubbery stuff that is kinda ugly. Other than that, it's nice looking, but very cheap to the touch. What do you expect for 16k? :)

Exterior: Those headlights are a dead ringer for the new 7er from the side view, and the grill reminds me of the R34 GT-R, but overall it's a tidy package that does a decent job hiding how tall it is. Come across as very 'chunky' in a good way, IMO.

Overall: I think it's a good commuter. Nice torque, quiet and smooth, decent price. It will do well in this segment, I think. It drives like a more expensive car, but not like a sporty one. :) The steering helps add to the fun while driving, but this is not a car I would go toss around some back roads for fun, not even as much as the current Celica.

[George M]

Nice write-up Mr. Project. Thanks for the review. Biggest disappointment to my eye is the compartment over the radio. Why would they do that...more at home on a high end car but in this case with very cheap execution. Simply should have left the center stack exposed. As to the suspension...upgradeable...Toyota's skewed the equation more toward ride versus handling. As to the engine...with the 200hp supercharged version in the wings...will be nice. Question is...for the money is it a better car than the Mini? For mini dollars, I would have to get a 350Z.

[Mr Project]

Yep, that radio cover is uber-cheezy. Would have been much better off left alone.

I've spent a little time driving the Mini Cooper S, too. And honestly, I wasn't that impressed. I guess if I'm driving a small car, I want it to feel like a small car. And the Mini doesn't.... it's so solid, so composed, so heavy, so BMW-feeling, it takes away from the small-tossable-fun-car feel.

No question the MCS is a sportier, better-handling ride than the tC, though.

I tell you what I've driven that could be had for 350z/loaded MCS dollars... the RX-8. Now THAT was a fun car... and one I had a hard time getting out of my head. :D

[DaCan23]

But at least they got off to a decent start and can improve on things unlike some cars that are around for years and the manufacturer never gets anything right... My 1st impression was for $16k w/ a few options... all things considered... as a basic car... very competitive in its class.

Thanks for all on input... better to be informed in my general car recommendations to friends..

[George M]

Mr. P...have to say you are a true car guy who knows cars. The thing about ultra competent suspension set ups...take the Mini for example...they always make a car feel underpowered. Part of the appeal of old British sports cars. It really isn't about how fast you can go....it is the sensation you get while driving. A close to perfect car, particularly without gobs of power can be a bit boring. Agree about the RX8...girlfriend's nephew has one...in fact he just graduated from U of M with an engineering degree and works for my sister...LOL and this was his first new car. Its a cool car with a distinctive design...kudo's to Mazda. I am not a big rotory fan...for no particular reason...just prefer an IC engine thats all. Picking the best new car is pretty circular...they all have strengths and weakness but if I'm gonna spend $30K think I will shop around for a lightly used (no such thing) E-46 M3 :-)...now thats a car.

[Bruno]

What a nice little coupe and cheap too... tried to get a friend to buy one but she opted for an Acura TSX for an extra $10k

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/06/sciontc05_01.jpg

The car has no soul and is BMW inspired...
A good old Japanese car...

[George M]

Depends on your definition of what consistutes a soul of a car. The Datsun 240Z is a noteable example. The young Japanese car industry created a ground breaking flagship sportscar. Over time....greed, not design ignorance....grew the weight and options of the Z car and it became a bloated, enigmatic hulk of its former self. Sound familiar? Some savy car people would submit that soul is really a culmination of faults...not harmony or synthesis of ground breaking design. Perfection is often construed as soul-less. Like it or not, the Japanese car industry is "getting it" and to my jandiced eye, BMW is doing quite the reverse and selling out by optioning up their cars for profit...exclusivity based upon a false premise....pandering to fat cats who don't know a fine automobile from a frying pan but know which frying pan costs more...all to survive. As much as I like many of the 90's BMW's....I like many of the new Japanese offerings a hell of a lot better than the recent 5, 6 or 7 series BMW's.

[Scott H]

but disagree on the RX-8.

My best friend had a MCS and it was fun, but could have been more fun.

Fiance's sister has the RX-8 and it's fun, but you have to keep that motor at high rpms to get power. I though it was way cool when it came out, but I have grown to dislike its styling......maybe the fact that she got the banana yellow one has affected my opinion a bit :p


Yep, that radio cover is uber-cheezy. Would have been much better off left alone.

I've spent a little time driving the Mini Cooper S, too. And honestly, I wasn't that impressed. I guess if I'm driving a small car, I want it to feel like a small car. And the Mini doesn't.... it's so solid, so composed, so heavy, so BMW-feeling, it takes away from the small-tossable-fun-car feel.

No question the MCS is a sportier, better-handling ride than the tC, though.

I tell you what I've driven that could be had for 350z/loaded MCS dollars... the RX-8. Now THAT was a fun car... and one I had a hard time getting out of my head. :D

[Mr Project]

but disagree on the RX-8.
Fiance's sister has the RX-8 and it's fun, but you have to keep that motor at high rpms to get power. I though it was way cool when it came out, but I have grown to dislike its styling......maybe the fact that she got the banana yellow one has affected my opinion a bit :p

Yes, the rotary engine cuts both ways:

On the plus side the smooth, eager willingness to rev, and hi-rpm pull are quite satisfying and add to the 'true sports car' feel.

On the minus side.. you have to drop 2 gears to grab that hole in traffic. And forget about the automatic. Seriously.

[George M]

same with the Honda S2000...a large motorcycle engine :-)

[Mr Project]

Yeah, I'd be interested to drive an S2000 sometime... rotaries have spoiled me forever on high-revving piston engines. The piston motors just feel like they are trying too hard compared to the rotaries....

The pistons in the engine go 'boing, boing, boing'...
The rotors in the engine go 'mmmmmmmmm'....

:D