Engine noise from a 3l M60

[Reidal]

Hi Guys and Gals

My '93 530i with 194,000kms has developed a worrisome noise in the engine.

My guess is that it is timing chain related.

There is a real racket at start up with varying degree of noise particularly from 1,500rpm upwards. The noise varies with acceleration / deceleration etc but is always noticeable when the stereo is off (Deep Purple and Judas Priest are particularly good at covering up the noise).

Looking at the ETK there are 3 chains but my noise appears to be upper engine related so exhaust chains? or tensioner?

Does anyone have any experience or advise on this?

What is the most common failure in the V8 timing chains?

What risks if I continue driving (valve timing, metal filings through the engine etc)?

[DueyT]

Reidal, as an M60B40 owner, I'd have to say...I really don't know. There very nice double roller chains, just saw mine last night doing the oil change, but I'd think that if they are the culprit and they're making that kind of noise, they're not far from getting much worse. I don't honestly know if the M60 is an interference engine, i.e. a hung valve would slam the piston top and bend a con rod if a cam chain broke, but you might try opening the oil fill cap as the engine idles (safety glasses of course, and don't stick your finger in there) and look at the chains that you can see right there...the noise should be pretty obvious if it's the RHS chains.

Cheers,
Duey

[winfred]

m60s are known for loose oil pump bolts, it's a possiblity that air is getting into the oiling system and pissing off the tensioner

[Messerschmitt]

If you haven't already done so, you shoulf remove your oil pan and check the oil pump mounting bolts. M60 engines had issues with them coming loose and falling into the oil pan. My 530i had one bolt in the oil pan and the rest loose at ~80,000 miles. You'll also need to replace the oil pan gasket with the upgraded one while your in there. The new style ones are rubber/metal instead of cork.

Noise could also be a failing water pump. Check to see if you are loosing coolant from around the bearing or weep-hole, with the engine running at normal temperature.

Messerschmitt

[Reidal]

The noises are getting worse so I expect I'll clearly id the cause in the next couple of days.

Could some one please confirm that the oil pump is accessable from below by removing the oil pan lower section only.

Looking at the ETK, removing the upper oil pan looks like a major job.

Regards

Reid

[Messerschmitt]

The oil pump is accessible by removing the lower oil pan only. No need to remove the upper pan (big job)


Messerschmitt

[Reidal]

Oil pump was just hanging on by the skin of it's teeth. Tightened it up and adjusted out lots of slack in the chain.

Still noisy.

Replaced the Timing Chain Tensioner. Still noisy.

Removed the right rocker cover (RHD divers side). So much slack in the main chain the tensioner doesn't seem to have much effect.

Chain is available locally at the stealer, but guides are 3 weeks from Germany.

I'm betting the chain is a more common problem as evidenced by the fact they are available ex stock here in Aussie.

Does thias make sense? or am I just engaging in wishful thinking?

Does any one have horror stories of loose oil pumps wrecking engines that they can cheer me up with (NOT)?

Regards

Reid

[winfred]

not personally but i've herd several, the oil pump falling off is not a good thing and in some cases that's how they found out it's a problem


Does any one have horror stories of loose oil pumps wrecking engines that they can cheer me up with (NOT)?

[Reidal]

Hi all

My plan of action.

Change the oil pump and drive chain.
Change the main timing chain and tensioner.
Cross my fingers, toes and any other appendage I can and hope the mains and big ends have survived.

Question 1) Is what I'm being told true, many internal parts for the M60 engines are no longer available?

Question 2) If Q1 is yes, does anyone know of aftermarket suppliers of bearing shells, rings, chains etc.

Gaskets and seals don't worry me so much, but the specialist hardware should be still available for that first rebuild (which is what most of these cars would be coming up to a round about now)

I find it hard to believe that BMW could get away with not supplying basic reconditioning parts for a car which is only 10 years old.

I'm beginning to wish I had listened to my wife 3 months ago (but I'd never admit it to her of course).


Regards

Reid :-(

[632 Regal]

just relax, as long as synthetic was in there you have NO worries. 1st ex blew a head gasket in her truck, I drove it here to fix it 40 miles, NO water at all, exhaust was bright cherry red when I got here, fried anything that wasnt iron under the hood. Builder told me everything would be toast, I took in 1 cracked head and went on my way with gaskets, he didnt believe me so I tell him why aint I getting anything else then? Cylinder walls were still virgin and NO knocks after. Synthetic is a wonderful thing.

[Reidal]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I noted a thread recently regarding marrage. All credit to TGLW (The good Lady Wife), she has been very restrained. Times like this when I can actually remember why I married her.

We will crack a couple of big ends and have a looksee just to make sure I don't bolt up a stuffed engine and have to strip it again.

Regards

Reid


just relax, as long as synthetic was in there you have NO worries. 1st ex blew a head gasket in her truck, I drove it here to fix it 40 miles, NO water at all, exhaust was bright cherry red when I got here, fried anything that wasnt iron under the hood. Builder told me everything would be toast, I took in 1 cracked head and went on my way with gaskets, he didnt believe me so I tell him why aint I getting anything else then? Cylinder walls were still virgin and NO knocks after. Synthetic is a wonderful thing.

[Reidal]

Quietly hopeful. We dropped off a couple of the front big ends and the shell and bearing surfaces look ok.

Maybe I will get away with just the oil pump & chain plus main timing chain and tensioner.

Regards

Reid

[Reidal]

Good result. All back together with new chain, guide and tensioner. Replaced the oil pump drive chain and bolted the oil pump back in place.

Also replaced a split engine mount and swollen radiator hose while I was in there.

Quite as a mouse now (but for a belt idler pulley bearing which started squeaking the next day).

Praise be for good synthetic oil.

[Messerschmitt]

I'm glad that worked out for you. The old M60 can be a little worrisome at times but it's alot of fun. Glad yours is fixed.

Messerschmitt
1994 530ia
175, 000+ miles
original block and tranny.

[Reidal]

Thanks Messerschmitt. It's good to have you guys around in those darkest moments.