OT: Hey Micah....

[George M]

Must of struck a chord to promote such censorship....can take the boy out of Roadfly but not all the Roadfly out of the....
Must not line up with what you believe eh Micah? Robert was free to quote scripture and state his view and I to respond.
Keep in mind, those that are truly saved Micah, that is...those like Robert that accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior are men of tolerance.
Now be a good boy and close this thread as well.

[Jeff N.]

Ah heck...it's a BMW board. Let's keep it to that. Or move it the OT forum.

[MicahO]

Robert's entire thread was closed, George, not just your branch. Everyone was free to ignore Robert's quotes of scripture and concentrate on the parts that dealt with the car. Your post had nothing to do with cars. But the entire thread was closed to limit any further flare ups based on your intimate personal attacks.

This thread can stay open. Anyone who thinks that was an egregious censorship event, speak up. Anyone who wishes to argue or dispute your comparison to Roadfly should also speak up, as you seem to have a revised view of history. We're all friends here, and some of us are even friendly.

Nice that registration has everyone posting as their own names. It's a start.

[winfred]

"beer is evadence that god loves us and wants us to be happy"
ben franklin

[George M]

Fair enough Micah. Probably a good idea to close it out as this is a BMW board as Jeff mentioned and not a board to post one's religious beliefs. When someone does use this BMW board to espouse their religious beliefs, I will typically respond...unless censored of course. As to posting in one's own name including formal registration prior to posting...you may forget it was me who took the initiative to make that happen in behalf of the board.
Lastly, gotta love Franklin's quote Winfred...Thanks.

[Sweetwater]

I have resigned from a Beamer board because I stood up to the site owner about his personal prejudices. On his board, the thread would be closed and disappear.

I like this boards ability to get answers to specific questions. There is great talent that speaks it's mind.

When topics get skewed, that great talent is opinionated. I do think the topic was presented in a skewed (read that distorted) manner. Living in the theocratic state of Utah makes us Gentiles a bit more sensitive about those issues.

So........It was a poor presentation of an auto topic IMHO and clearly not overcensorship to just close the thread IMHO.

[Mr Project]

George, to be honest I felt like your original reponse was out of line in terms of tone and attitude. The original post was maybe a bit OT, but your reponse came accross as accusatory and spiteful. I didn't sense any room for 'peaceful disagreement' in your response. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, as a Christian myself, but it seemed like you whacked a pretty small gopher with a pretty big mallet.

I'm not in favor of censorship, but I am in favor of mutual respect. George, you contribute a lot to this board and I really appreciate it. I obviously disagree with your religous beliefs, but I respect you and would try to discuss our disagreements in a civil and respectful tone, if we chose to do so. I don't see how it is censorship to ask the same of all of us.

[callen]

Mr Project:

For many Georges comments were right on. Religeon has no place on this board......and should not be a sounding board to promote it.

Think Micah closing thread probably helped cool some of us down so good decision......

Callen 91 535i 94 530i 89 735il

[BennyM]

George, to be honest I felt like your original reponse was out of line in terms of tone and attitude. The original post was maybe a bit OT, but your reponse came accross as accusatory and spiteful. I didn't sense any room for 'peaceful disagreement' in your response. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, as a Christian myself, but it seemed like you whacked a pretty small gopher with a pretty big mallet.

I'm not in favor of censorship, but I am in favor of mutual respect. George, you contribute a lot to this board and I really appreciate it. I obviously disagree with your religous beliefs, but I respect you and would try to discuss our disagreements in a civil and respectful tone, if we chose to do so. I don't see how it is censorship to ask the same of all of us.

[Mr Project]

Mr Project:

For many Georges comments were right on. Religeon has no place on this board......and should not be a sounding board to promote it.

Think Micah closing thread probably helped cool some of us down so good decision......

Callen 91 535i 94 530i 89 735il

Callen, I agree with the 'board clutter' angle, I think ( I was an early supporter of the OT forum being separated ). My question is if it needs to be removed, why not politely request a move to OT where it can be debated in a reasonable manner?

If you are saying that religion has no place, even on OT, then I think I disagree. I generally don't bother with the OT board, but if politics are fair game there (as they seem to be), why not religion? Isn't an open and civil discussion on religious topics a reasonable expectation of an OT board?

Of course, on a privately-owned site such as we have here, it is ultimately up to the owners to decide how it will be used, and I don't intend to put forth the idea that we have a 'right' to use it as we (the benficiaries) see fit.

(Speaking of which, shouldn't this thread be in OT by now? :) )

edit-> Sorry, don't mean to hide behind a SN:
Armen Badeer

[632 Regal]

heads are gonna roll...

[scott540]

Hey George, I usually like what you have to say on here and usually agree with you. I even agree with you on this one but when I read your post I did think it was a little harsh. I do feel the same way about it as you do though. I might be a little jaded due to personal history though. A few years ago our son was going through leukemia. Childhood Leukemia is treated with a 3 year round of chemo. Usually during ages 3-6. He's fine now and 8 years old. Maybe thanks to a god and maybe not. I really don't know. What always bothered me though was when you're on the cancer floor of a children's hospital, little kids die. All you hear is people saying "God will take care of everything". People say a lot of things that make you question even more things. "why my child?" "why did their child be the one in 10 that die of childhood cancer?" Relatives still say things like prayer and god saved him. Does that mean god loves my son more than the thousands of kids that die every year? I know that years and years of research and day after day of chemotherapy saved him along with his doctors, nurses, and my wife's and myself's' efforts. So Robert's comment really struck a nerve with me. It's 2 sided also. Because since Robert did survive the incident, God must love him. But if he didn't survive people would say God loved him enough to take him. Which is it?

check out the hat!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/scott540/127-2705_IMG.jpg

[George M]

Jeff...that is funny man.
Thanks Callen for your comments and you basically said it all Scott...you have lived it and you know better than most. And we won't even touch the subject of Christian Scientists who will not allow any administration of medicine to their children with leukemia as it is God's will. One thing for certain, if there is a God, he has blessed you with a beautiful son...thanks for sharing your story and pic of your son who is almost a carbon copy of my sister's son...could be brothers. Contrary to what some may know about me, I grew up in the church and when a station wagon full of teenage kids...nine to be exact...many of whom were my age were heading up I-75 for a weekend retreat were hit by a drunk driver head on going the wrong way down I-75 and they were all killed...that really tested the faith of the entire congregation. For those that believe that was God's will....you know my thoughts.

[scott540]

The best one that I can remember about the whole ordeal regarding religion was one day we're at home, few weeks after after the leukemia diagnosis. He was pretty sick from from the heavy duty stuff they shock the system with to get into remission when a guy my wife used to work with shows up. This guy was recently dx with Hepatitis C from numerous questionable activites. He looks like hell but heard about our son and would like to come in and "lay hands" on him and pray and if now is not a good time he could come back with the other guys in his prayer group (that he met through the hospital) and they could have a prayer meeting at our house. Yeah, that might happen.

I was also threatened by and with the catholic religion as a child. As it always should be, everythng in moderation.

"Prayer, the last refuge for the sinner" - Lisa Simpson to Bart

[Brian C.]

I guess I'll have to do a little back reading to catch-up. I've been in Charlotte County Florida doing a little Hurricane Charley assistance. A lot of people there are in for some rough times. Please.....give what you can to the American Red Cross disaster relief. It's amazing how a bar of soap and a few "D" batteries can make someone's day.

Brian C.

[George M]

you didn't miss much Brian...only the usual 6 month flare up due to someone bringing up their religious belief on a BMW message board. Speaking of a related subject that many people disagree on...since the country is divided almost 50/50...how many believe like I do that God interceded to make George Bush president versus Al Gore who won the popular vote in our last election?.... lol....kidding.... KIDDING.
As to Charley...once again...I praise the Lord that God decided to redirect Charley (not) a bit closer to Fort Meyer and away from Venice where my mother lives. As you mention, I understand the devistation is really something to behold. Elderly people that can bearly walk having to deal with cleaning up what amounts to rubble in many cases...a tragedy. Does beg the question why God didn't just keep Charlie out in the ocean :-)...I guess some of the old people there needed a good wuppin'.

Thanks for all the good work you do Brian to help others...no greater satisfaction and really makes you count your blessings to see what those less fortunate are going through.

[632 Regal]

you didn't miss much Brian...only the usual 6 month flare up due to someone bringing up their religious belief on a BMW message board. Speaking of a related subject that many people disagree on...since the country is divided almost 50/50...how many believe like I do that God interceded to make George Bush president versus Al Gore who won the popular vote in our last election?.... lol....kidding.... KIDDING.
As to Charley...once again...I praise the Lord that God decided to redirect Charley (not) a bit closer to Fort Meyer and away from Venice where my mother lives. As you mention, I understand the devistation is really something to behold. Elderly people that can bearly walk having to deal with cleaning up what amounts to rubble in many cases...a tragedy. Does beg the question why God didn't just keep Charlie out in the ocean :-)...I guess some of the old people there needed a good wuppin'.

Thanks for all the good work you do Brian to help others...no greater satisfaction and really makes you count your blessings to see what those less fortunate are going through.