Code 1213, Running Rough in Morning

[4byr]

Help,

I have replaced the o2 sensors, replaced the fuel regulator and vacuum hose, Orings on all injectors, vortex o rings, oil fill tube o rings, intake manifold gaskets (twice), fuel conditioner and am at a loss. The car stalled on me today for the first time. I am worried that the stealer is going to get some of my money trying to trouble shoot it! Does anyone have any ideas? The car starts and will stall if I don't keep the idle up before it comes up to temperature. I have done several things to fix this and an elusive oil leak to no avail! I need super bmer to help me before I trade in this thing. It only has 63k miles on it!

I saw a posting on the oil leak indicating that it could be the fitting on the front end of the oil tube under the intake. GRRRRR, after replacing all of the gaskets twice I have been leaking about 2 tablespoons a day and have learned how to remove and replace the injectors and manifold etc in just a few hours. What a pain in the butt. Looks like I have to do it one more time!

I need some help with the code 1213.

Any one out there?

Rich

[George M]

as much information as you provided...need more. :-) Inducing from what you wrote...sounds like you have a V8 car with the common oil leak....either a 3.0 or 4.0 liter...gonna presume a 530i since most 540i owners would say...how am I doing?
Engine management on V8 cars has coil packs. These coil packs can sometimes short out causing errant codes due to oil leaking around the spark plug holes...oil is a conductor as are most fluids...albeit not the best conductor but good enough with very high voltage. You need to address your oil leak if you want decent performance. A suggestion is give a full blown description of where the oil is emanating from and precisely what procedure you employed on replacing your parts/gaskets. Again, what you describe is quite common for V8 cars and can be resolved. If you want to stay away from the dealer which I strongly recommend, invest in a Bentley manual which will I.D. your fault code...I don't have mine with me to tell you what that code is. Don't suffer the pitfall of trading your Bimmer in...sell it to some one on the board and make a bit more money in the process. Low miles E-34's are desireable cars...more or less depending on which V8 block aluminum alloy you have.
Good Luck.

[George M]

whoops...you do have a 530i...just saw that in your title...lol. Let us know...pictures help a lot as well for the best diagnosis.

[tim]

I've seen a cracked AFM boot that will cause a 1213 error. Mixture runs way too lean, and as soon as the o2 sensors warm up it throws the code. Need more info on the oil leak. Take off the skid panels under the motor, and figure out where its really coming from.

[winfred]

have you done the pcv plate on the back of the intake? another possible problem is a plugged cat v8s are real bad on that, i've seen a small problem drive the fuel injection computer absolutly nuts on the v8 it's too quick to adapt to problems, i've seen a plugged cat on one side blow the pcv plate and that cause the computer to throw the mixture 50% lean on one bank and 50% rich on the other in 5 minutes of running after a complete reset of the computer

[4byr]

have you done the pcv plate on the back of the intake? another possible problem is a plugged cat v8s are real bad on that, i've seen a small problem drive the fuel injection computer absolutly nuts on the v8 it's too quick to adapt to problems, i've seen a plugged cat on one side blow the pcv plate and that cause the computer to throw the mixture 50% lean on one bank and 50% rich on the other in 5 minutes of running after a complete reset of the computer

94 530 with 63k miles:

The two problems it has is the code and the oil leak. With regard to the code 1213, the PCV plate and gaskets were replaced when I took the manifold off to locate the oil leak that I didn't solve. The O2 sensors were replaced about 4 months ago when I did the fuel filters, motor mounts, struts, control arms etc. I couldn't find a reference to the AFM in my Bentley. Is this the Mass Air Flow Sensor? My guess is that I will be going through the test procedure in the book this weekend. The flexible intake is in very good condition.
I can't imagine it is the cats. This thing has very few miles and recently went through smog with such low emission numbers I was amazed. There is no oil on any of the plugs or boots and it burns clean. This code problem is really a pain in the butt.
On to the oil leak... I have oil in the valley under the intake manifold on both sides. I think the leak is coming down the top front driver side of the head. From there it is difficult to track other than from the underside it comes down from behind the alternator down the block and all over the driver side motor mount and trans hoses. I replaced the front power steering hose because it too was leaking (now it isn't). The oil is flowing at about 2 tbsp per day but all over the undercarriage and my garage floor. I smell it burning on the exhaust when I stop. I pulled the intake manifold, replaced all gaskets and o rings, fuel regulator and hose, PCV and gaskets and cleaned the heck out of everything. A day later the oil was back! I read or interpreted yesterday that the oil return tube from the PCV that resides under the intake attaches to an interface tube on the motor and that there is a high probability that this is where it leaks! This means that I have to take the top off again (3rd set of intake manifold gaskets) and clean it thoroughly and apply RTV to the press fit tube that interfaces with the front portion of the motor that the PCV tube slides over. Is this true????? What a pain! I guess I have to go through it again. While I am at it again and for the last time.... should I replace the BOSCH fuel injectors? Are there any recommendations? I have heard of people replacing them with Mustang injectors? Are these less expensive than the $ 90 Bosch BMW style and do they provide more performance with the same interface height, diameter, connection, rate etc? Is there a drawback? More Power would be nice. What model/part number of injector is recommended. My mileage isn't that great due to a lot of freeway stop and go. Does the alternate injector provide better flow? I don't need to spend the dough on a chip do I? I don't want to introduce another variable to my problems and would like to keep it as stock as possible with subtle mods. Any ideas Winfred?
I have performed all of the service myself and am ready to jump in, again. I have been through this thing several times and am not shy to replace components that are required. Any help from the wizards of the BMer site is appreciated!

Thanks,
Rich

[winfred]

the intake gaskets are reusable if they are recent, best guess if the oil is by the alternator would be the connection from the oil filter housing to the block. i've never done mustang injectors on a v8, i think the stock ones are in the same general catagory as the design II, unless you have created a need for more fuel bigger injectors will not help, on something as modern as the m60 and it's sometimes agravating computer id look into one of those services that cleans and flow matches your injectors for less then new units. afm = maf = ams (same alphabet soup general meaning).


94 530 with 63k miles:

The two problems it has is the code and the oil leak. With regard to the code 1213, the PCV plate and gaskets were replaced when I took the manifold off to locate the oil leak that I didn't solve. The O2 sensors were replaced about 4 months ago when I did the fuel filters, motor mounts, struts, control arms etc. I couldn't find a reference to the AFM in my Bentley. Is this the Mass Air Flow Sensor? My guess is that I will be going through the test procedure in the book this weekend. The flexible intake is in very good condition.
I can't imagine it is the cats. This thing has very few miles and recently went through smog with such low emission numbers I was amazed. There is no oil on any of the plugs or boots and it burns clean. This code problem is really a pain in the butt.
On to the oil leak... I have oil in the valley under the intake manifold on both sides. I think the leak is coming down the top front driver side of the head. From there it is difficult to track other than from the underside it comes down from behind the alternator down the block and all over the driver side motor mount and trans hoses. I replaced the front power steering hose because it too was leaking (now it isn't). The oil is flowing at about 2 tbsp per day but all over the undercarriage and my garage floor. I smell it burning on the exhaust when I stop. I pulled the intake manifold, replaced all gaskets and o rings, fuel regulator and hose, PCV and gaskets and cleaned the heck out of everything. A day later the oil was back! I read or interpreted yesterday that the oil return tube from the PCV that resides under the intake attaches to an interface tube on the motor and that there is a high probability that this is where it leaks! This means that I have to take the top off again (3rd set of intake manifold gaskets) and clean it thoroughly and apply RTV to the press fit tube that interfaces with the front portion of the motor that the PCV tube slides over. Is this true????? What a pain! I guess I have to go through it again. While I am at it again and for the last time.... should I replace the BOSCH fuel injectors? Are there any recommendations? I have heard of people replacing them with Mustang injectors? Are these less expensive than the $ 90 Bosch BMW style and do they provide more performance with the same interface height, diameter, connection, rate etc? Is there a drawback? More Power would be nice. What model/part number of injector is recommended. My mileage isn't that great due to a lot of freeway stop and go. Does the alternate injector provide better flow? I don't need to spend the dough on a chip do I? I don't want to introduce another variable to my problems and would like to keep it as stock as possible with subtle mods. Any ideas Winfred?
I have performed all of the service myself and am ready to jump in, again. I have been through this thing several times and am not shy to replace components that are required. Any help from the wizards of the BMer site is appreciated!

Thanks,
Rich

[4byr]

the intake gaskets are reusable if they are recent, best guess if the oil is by the alternator would be the connection from the oil filter housing to the block. i've never done mustang injectors on a v8, i think the stock ones are in the same general catagory as the design II, unless you have created a need for more fuel bigger injectors will not help, on something as modern as the m60 and it's sometimes agravating computer id look into one of those services that cleans and flow matches your injectors for less then new units. afm = maf = ams (same alphabet soup general meaning).
Oil filter area is remarkably clean. It is aggravating to not have found the leak after soo much work. Oil is in the valley on both sides and kind of disappears until it comes out underneath the alternator area. I was wondering if it was from the front cover. I put a bit of RTV all over this area the last time I removed the manifold. I didn't put it on the interface of the pressed in PCV tube. I hate making a mess of things with goop but if it helps, so much the better. I'll look into your recommendation of the cleaning and matching.

Thanks

[George M]

my advice is you have other fish to fry before you consider changing your injectors....would put that at the bottom of the list and not at the top. I would first try to shore up the oil leak. You can pull the plugs and see if your issue is cylinder specific or you are getting a lean or rich condition across the board. If you isolate a particular cylinder due to plug discoloration, you are well on your way to resolving your problem. First I would address your oil leak...if it is related to your intake gaskets then likely you have introduced a vacuum leak and why you are throwing a code.

[4byr]

my advice is you have other fish to fry before you consider changing your injectors....would put that at the bottom of the list and not at the top. I would first try to shore up the oil leak. You can pull the plugs and see if your issue is cylinder specific or you are getting a lean or rich condition across the board. If you isolate a particular cylinder due to plug discoloration, you are well on your way to resolving your problem. First I would address your oil leak...if it is related to your intake gaskets then likely you have introduced a vacuum leak and why you are throwing a code.
Plugs are clean and gaskets on intake and valve covers are fresh and don't leak. Oil is leaking somewhere on the top and dripping down the front drivers sided of block. The valley has wet (oily) residue adjacent to the heads. I think the oil is on the passenger side because heat and air has helped it migrate. I don't know if it is the tube I indicated in one of the responses but it is irritating and I will be taking the top off one more time.
When you pull the intake obviously all of the injectors have to be removed with it and installed. It is certainly the right time to replace them! If the injectors are only $ 35 each it may be worth it to replace them now. I am tired of pulling this manifold! Removal is easy. Installation and alignment is a beast especially with the little Jesus clips on the injectors. The top ones are easy, the smaller bottom ones that connect the electrical are not fun.

Rich

[George M]

You seem to believe that injectors are a maintenance or a PM item. They are not. Bosch injectors for BMW's as a rule will easily go 200k miles without replacement. Mine are original and at 150k miles flow beautifully. Replacing O-rings is recommended if you pull them out. Go ahead and replace them if you want but likely will not resolve the problem.

[632 Regal]

for the injectors go to http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/, really will flow the same as stock and the engine management will set the fuel curve anyways.

in reading through this post I havent seen that you have replaved the valve cover gaskets, not the ones for the plastic covers but under that, those tend to leak.

Have you changed the boots between the coils and plugs yet?

Check carefully along the air intake system for something not fitting correctly, Mine had a leak on the bottom side which took a bit to finally find.

[SharkmanBMW]

I have a 4 litre M60 and last summer had major rough idle until warmup..... Winfred hit the nail on the head in my case with his tip..... "have you done the pcv plate on the back of the intake?"

[4byr]

I have a 4 litre M60 and last summer had major rough idle until warmup..... Winfred hit the nail on the head in my case with his tip..... "have you done the pcv plate on the back of the intake?"
PCV plate has been replaced. I verified that the resistance measurement on the IAT and TPS and idle speed control valve are correct to include the incoming voltage. I verified the incoming voltage on the AFS but Bentley does not indicate what the test resistance should be on the AFS and on what terminals. I have a 4 wire connector for DME 3.3.1 on the AFS. Does anyone know what the resistance should be on this by terminal?
When I removed this to inspect the seal and rubber there were no signs of damage. When I connected the AFS with the connector while disassembled I witness no glowing of the "hot film". Does this glow like on the "hot wire" style used on DME 3.1?
The answer to the gasket issues and boots is that all have been inspected and there are no apparent leaks.

What is the function of the idle speed control valve? I feel this buzzing and have checked incoming voltage and the resistance of the contacts are per specification. Does this merely open and close or does the buzzing mean it is spinning at a variable speed forcing air into the intake manifold. When the motor is cold does it merely rotate open or does it spin freely and force air into the manifold?

The only reason I was even thinking of injectors is with the thought that I could perform some PM while the manifold was off "again".

Thank you to all for the help,

Rich

[4byr]

for the injectors go to http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/, really will flow the same as stock and the engine management will set the fuel curve anyways.

in reading through this post I havent seen that you have replaved the valve cover gaskets, not the ones for the plastic covers but under that, those tend to leak.

Have you changed the boots between the coils and plugs yet?

Check carefully along the air intake system for something not fitting correctly, Mine had a leak on the bottom side which took a bit to finally find.

[4byr]

PCV plate has been replaced. I verified that the resistance measurement on the IAT and TPS and idle speed control valve are correct to include the incoming voltage. I verified the incoming voltage on the AFS but Bentley does not indicate what the test resistance should be on the AFS and on what terminals. I have a 4 wire connector for DME 3.3.1 on the AFS. Does anyone know what the resistance should be on this by terminal?
When I removed this to inspect the seal and rubber there were no signs of damage. When I connected the AFS with the connector while disassembled I witness no glowing of the "hot film". Does this glow like on the "hot wire" style used on DME 3.1?
The answer to the gasket issues and boots is that all have been inspected and there are no apparent leaks.

What is the function of the idle speed control valve? I feel this buzzing and have checked incoming voltage and the resistance of the contacts are per specification. Does this merely open and close or does the buzzing mean it is spinning at a variable speed forcing air into the intake manifold. When the motor is cold does it merely rotate open or does it spin freely and force air into the manifold?

The only reason I was even thinking of injectors is with the thought that I could perform some PM while the manifold was off "again".

Thank you to all for the help,

Rich

[winfred]

it doesn't spin or pump air, some open and close quickly (many times a second) to meter air past the throttle plate and others attempt to maintain a certain amount of opening like a mini throttle to hold a specified idle speed


What is the function of the idle speed control valve? I feel this buzzing and have checked incoming voltage and the resistance of the contacts are per specification. Does this merely open and close or does the buzzing mean it is spinning at a variable speed forcing air into the intake manifold. When the motor is cold does it merely rotate open or does it spin freely and force air into the manifold?

[4byr]

it doesn't spin or pump air, some open and close quickly (many times a second) to meter air past the throttle plate and others attempt to maintain a certain amount of opening like a mini throttle to hold a specified idle speed
Winfred,

Thank you for your knowledge!

Do you know how to test the AFS? I don't know what the resistance should be. The connector has the voltage required but I'm not sure the AFS is functioning. Is there a test on the 4 wires? I see a test for the six for the 3.1 DME but not the 3.3.

Thanks again!

[winfred]

to really see anything you need a graphing multimeter to see the output and how smooth it rises and falls when you rev the motor, then you need to know what it's supposed to be, test info for hard parts is generally hard to find


Winfred,

Thank you for your knowledge!

Do you know how to test the AFS? I don't know what the resistance should be. The connector has the voltage required but I'm not sure the AFS is functioning. Is there a test on the 4 wires? I see a test for the six for the 3.1 DME but not the 3.3.

Thanks again!