M20 Cracked Head

[ocampg]

Well, its been verified, my head is cracked. I have had the worst luck with this car, in fact, repairing what I thought was a blown head gasket was gonna be my last repair just so I could sell it. I've put in too much time and money into this car which ended up costing me way more than the car is worth. Not really sure what to do next, I guess first, I should ask if anybody on here has a known, true, M20 Head which they want to get rid of CHEAP (practically free). It seems if I had just listened to my wife (who is extremely pissed, hehe) in the beginning who told me to get rid of it, I would have saved myself a great deal of money and headaches. Too many times, I have convinced her that I just gotta fix this one last thing and the car will be good. I've gotten offers a while back which I turned down because they were too low, which in retrospect I should have sold it because in trying to get the car up in good running condition, I would have made out better selling it to them for the reduced price in the "broken" condition rather than trying to fix it and get what I wanted for it.I am almost taking this latest news as a sign to just give it up and take the loss. Even if by chance I can get a head for cheap, I am still not sure if I should take up the project since I've been bitten on the ass so many times already by this car. Any advice/offers? I am contemplating parting the car out, but would rather get rid of the car altogether in one piece, $1000? Car as a whole is in good condition, 89 525ia, everything works (windows, electronics, heat, a/c, etc...), has 17" ROH reflex wheels with about 3000miles on 2, and less than 500 on the other 2 tires, cirrrus blue. New parts which I can think of: MAF sensor, TPS sensor, cap, rotor, wires, various hoses, mirror glass, 1 tie rod end, fan clutch... I'm sure there is more, just dont rememeber. I dont have any pics, but should have some soon, car is not with me right now, sitting in my parents garage in rockland county, NY.

[Bruno]

You can probably make 2500 or more selling the car for parts.
But it is a major pain, and it depends on the condition of the parts in the car.

Best would be to put a used, good cylinder head in the car and sell it for 3000 US.

Sorry to hear that.... when the head is pulled... it should always be pressure tested.

[PABLO]

Cant you fix the head? I think its posible.

[632 Regal]

dont bother fixing the head, get a low mile used one, have it checked and make sure you use new gaskets and head BOLTS.

You have NO choice, fix it!

lol sorry to hear all the bad luck.

[ryan roopnarine]

have you considered simply replacing the engine? it might be cheaper to find a used m20 engine and swap out the old than it would be to find a new head, or try to repair the old one.

[ocampg]

the crack runs along the inside, right below the cam, by the cam journal? The machinist said it would probably be cheaper to buy a rebuilt head than to have him fix it. My problem with getting a head from a junkyard, is that they are not gauranteed. With my luck, there is a good chance that I will get another cracked head, waste another 75 bucks to get it checked out, have 2 bad heads, and then I'll be even deeper in the hole. I'm telling you man, this is never ending... I live near the bronx, home of Hunts Point, probably americas largest salvage yard, and my experiences with them have always been, sure they will gaurantee your part, but when it comes to the point where you want your money back, they won't...they will issue you a store credit, they will try to find you another one, a different one, but if they dont have anything, you are SOL, and they could care less b/c they already have your money.

[Bruno]

the crack runs along the inside, right below the cam, by the cam journal? The machinist said it would probably be cheaper to buy a rebuilt head than to have him fix it. My problem with getting a head from a junkyard, is that they are not gauranteed. With my luck, there is a good chance that I will get another cracked head, waste another 75 bucks to get it checked out, have 2 bad heads, and then I'll be even deeper in the hole. I'm telling you man, this is never ending... I live near the bronx, home of Hunts Point, probably americas largest salvage yard, and my experiences with them have always been, sure they will gaurantee your part, but when it comes to the point where you want your money back, they won't...they will issue you a store credit, they will try to find you another one, a different one, but if they dont have anything, you are SOL, and they could care less b/c they already have your money.

Most junkyard will give you a warranty on the part if the part is bad they will give you another one.... I would go this route. Plenty of M20 heads and motors out there.

[ocampg]

Most junkyard will give you a warranty on the part if the part is bad they will give you another one.... I would go this route. Plenty of M20 heads and motors out there.

Ok, I guess it wouldnt hurt to at least find out how much...

[632 Regal]

Ok, I guess it wouldnt hurt to at least find out how much...

[winfred]

that type of crack generaly comes from overheating and is uncommon but it does happin


the crack runs along the inside, right below the cam, by the cam journal

[winfred]

ps a E head will not work with your pistons, a 88 super E head will work as it's a I casting but it has a wimpy cam and single valve springs that will lower your performance, your cam and double springs will make it right


that type of crack generaly comes from overheating and is uncommon but it does happin

[Mr. BILL]

Take a deep breath...The reality is, fixing the car will still be your most economical solution. Think of it this way, if you buy any other used car, you probably will spend more than what you already have in this one. What guarantee do you have that it won't have problems too, in fact, you can probbably count on it.

The only way to avoid repairs is to buy a new car. However, you'll spend many thousands more on the purchase. Your going to spend money either way, it just depends how much and how often you are comfortable with.

Judging from the list of things you've already replaced, you've covered most of what can/will go bad. You may need a water pump and radiator somewhere down the line, but that's not too expensive.

As far as the replacing the head, I'm in the process of doing it myself right now. It's a big job, but so far, not that difficult. Especially with a Bentley's and help from folks here like winfred. When all finished, I'll have spent around $800-$900. Having it done by a indi will cost about $1800-$2000.

I bought a remanufactured head on ebay for $550 delivered. I'll sell you my old one for $100 delivered. It fell victim to a broken timing belt. It's not warped or cracked, but it did sustain a broken rocker arm and several bent valves. You'd probably have to spend another $400-$500 to rebuild it. So, one off ebay isa good option IMO and they are out there between $600-$1000.

I really encourage you to think about fixing it. The one I'm working on now I have owned for 4 years and has been virtually trouble free. I bought it from a BMW tech who was gong to give it to his daughter, so he went through the car and fixed most of the things on your list. So, they CAN be a reliable/economical car to drive.

Good luck, if I can help, don't hesitate to contact me.

[ocampg]

thanks for all the support. Turns out if I get rid of this car, probably won't need another, my wife recently quit her job to return to school, which of course does not help the funds situation, but she just takes the train in. Mr. Bill, I might just take you up on that offer, maybe I can frankenstien a head mixing our parts. I will look into the salvage yards this weekend and see what turns up, so maybe I will have a plan by next week. Thanks again...
Geoff

[Mr. BILL]

Just let me know. If you get serious, I might take it to a machine shop to have it checked out to see what you'd be dealing with.

[Jimmy535i]

What kind of price quote did you get on repairing the head?

[ocampg]

he said that the price of the repair would cost almost as much as a refurb head $900.

[ryan roopnarine]

he said that the price of the repair would cost almost as much as a refurb head $900.

i find it hard to believe that you'd have to pay more than 600-700 for a used m20. when i was looking for m50s, i found that they were usually 700-800, as low as 600. maybe less hassle for you, especially if there's something wrong with the head going back on there.

[EQ'sBMWe34]

he said that the price of the repair would cost almost as much as a refurb head $900.

Hey Ocampg,

I have a '89 BMW e34. I also have a M20 cylinder head in great condition and it has been pressure tested. I bought it from a BMW parts store in Toronto for $800 CDN a year ago. I didn't install in my car because I ended up putting in a whole engine instead. It's available if your interested. I'll let it go for 550 US.

[Jimmy535i]

I am having a M30 head repaired this week. Repair price will run around $800.00.
(new guides,seals,repair crack,mill head) This is done at a shop I trust. So the extra
dollars are worth it to me.

I Can buy a rebuilt for $720.00 delivered. But after talking to the folks at
at headsonly.com they indicated that they only pressure test and change seals.

EQ's head offer at $550.00 is a great deal.

[Jason]

if youre selling the car look around one some of the BMW forums and get a used one. Im sure you can can find one in the $300 range if not better. There is a place in PA the parts out E30s and I'm pretty sure they advertise in the roundel classifieds, they would very likey have a head you can use.

[632 Regal]

if youre selling the car look around one some of the BMW forums and get a used one. Im sure you can can find one in the $300 range if not better. There is a place in PA the parts out E30s and I'm pretty sure they advertise in the roundel classifieds, they would very likey have a head you can use.

[ocampg]

Here are some pics of the car, I figure if someone is willing to give me $1000, they can tow it away, like I said many new parts: tires, MAF, O2 sensor, TPS, Thrust arms, tie rod ends, fuel filter, spark plugs, spark plug wires, trunk shocks, various hoses, and more (just can't remember). If there is no interest, then Mr. Bill, I believe I will have to take you up on your offer. Thanks....
Geoff

apparently, my pics are too large to post, I shrunk one of them down, but to view more pics, please go here:
http://photos.yahoo.com/ocampg

[Mr. BILL]

I wonder what it'd cost to ship that thing to Texas? Is it an auto, or 5 speed? I might be intereted.

[ocampg]

I wonder what it'd cost to ship that thing to Texas? Is it an auto, or 5 speed? I might be intereted.


auto, 126K?

[Mr. BILL]

Well, forget that idea. I got bids of $900-1000 to ship it to Texas.

[Jeff N.]

Before:

http://home.comcast.net/~jsnord/pics/wreck_1.jpg

BTW, that's Martin B.....geeeenius.

After:

http://home.comcast.net/~jsnord/pics/crash_car.jpg

Hey Martin...that was fun, huh? Just about a year ago now. Your turn to find one now.

[ocampg]

Well, I guess nobody is interested in my car. What is everybody's opinion on the condition of a head which has sustained damage from timing belt failure? Winfred, you seem to have alot of experience with M20 heads, any instances? Mr. Bill was generous enough to offer me his cylinder head for $100, but he mentioned that some valves and rocker arms were bent. It seems to me that alot of force would be needed to do so, and in turn, it could be very possible that the head was also damaged, maybe the cam journal? I'm asking this because as some of you may have read, this car has given me the worst of luck, and each time I try to fix something, I only dig myself deeper into the hole... The way I see it, it is possible that I get Mr. Bill's head ($100), get it checked out ($60), and a headgasket kit ($120) only to bit in the ass once again... I would like to know if anybody has broken a timing belt and damaged the head as well? In lieu of this, I guess I could lower my asking price even further, $800 anybody? The car is New City, NY.

[632 Regal]

you could give it away and its not worth it, fix it would be the only option that I can see.

[Denasti]

I am going through the same deal right now with a 90 525i. I left it outside to cool off one afternoon and came back to the needle pegged in the red. I checked out the coolant and found oil mixed all through it and did some more investigation to find the T-stat had fell apart and blocked the water flow. :(

I tore the head down and sent it out for a pressure test and it came back cracked. I searched Ebay for weeks for a used head that was pressure tested and nothing is under $200 used. I was bored and searched for "Remanufactured cylinder head bmw" one day and came up with a rebuild shop in San Antonio, Texas that had a page up. I called a few shop in the area and asked about the rebuild shops reputation and they had no negative comments. Sure its not Jim's house of Supreme power but I am not planning on racing this car. I had them ship me the head with no core and the total with tax came to $437. :D

I am about half way done reassembling now and taking my time and looking up alot of the great tips listed on the boards here. If you have the time and some mechanical skills then do it yourself. Buying the head, radiator and gaskets with all the little extras, my total will be close to $1k. Not bad and it should be bullet proof for 5 more years.

[Mr. BILL]

You'll spend $800-900 to fix the car if you do it yourself. Twice that if you have it done. You might think in terms of how much would you loose if you sell the car figuring what you paid for it plus repairs so far, less what you sell it for, $600-800.

Compare that to what you paid, plus ALL repairs (including this one) to see how much you have in it total, less what you MIGHT sell it for, maybe $3000. Which way will you come out better? That's should be your basis for a decision.

I'd love to buy your car, but it'll cost me a grand to get it here. It sounds like you've replace most of the things that'll fail. BTW, you'll spend at least $300-400 on my head to make it usable, so keep that in mind.

Good luck!

[Crewblunts]

Ocampg,
I PMed you check your inbox :-)

-Phil V

[winfred]

generally theres two different types of dammage to the head from a snapped rubber band, the head of the valve snaps off and pulverizes the combustion chamber and piston, the other is the tower that the rocker shaft runs through cracks (this is above the cam) i've seen this repared but usually in a real nasty fashion, like the rocker shaft welded to the tower which i guess works but the general quality of the welding looks like a 5 year old with a coat hanger and a couple batterys was turned loose on it, i've seen a good half dozen or so of these, i part the engine when i find one like this in the yard and don't sell it, if the towers look good build it with new valves it only kills the towers about half of the time when it crashes and a valve breaking is almost rare, feeling lucky ;)


Well, I guess nobody is interested in my car. What is everybody's opinion on the condition of a head which has sustained damage from timing belt failure? Winfred, you seem to have alot of experience with M20 heads, any instances? Mr. Bill was generous enough to offer me his cylinder head for $100, but he mentioned that some valves and rocker arms were bent. It seems to me that alot of force would be needed to do so, and in turn, it could be very possible that the head was also damaged, maybe the cam journal? I'm asking this because as some of you may have read, this car has given me the worst of luck, and each time I try to fix something, I only dig myself deeper into the hole... The way I see it, it is possible that I get Mr. Bill's head ($100), get it checked out ($60), and a headgasket kit ($120) only to bit in the ass once again... I would like to know if anybody has broken a timing belt and damaged the head as well? In lieu of this, I guess I could lower my asking price even further, $800 anybody? The car is New City, NY.