new tie rods.... how long till allignment?

[PhilipJCaputo]

I'm going to be replacing left & right tie rods this weekend..... if I adjust the new ones similar to the old ones.... how long can I put off getting an alignment...

reason is... I'm going to be getting new tires soon, and I'd like to have it alligned when I get the tires...

I guess if it pulls real hard one way or the other I'll be more inclined to get it alligned sooner....


hope this takes out a lot of the play (crossing my fingers)

[632 Regal]

measure real good and it should be close enough to drive it to the alignment shop. I wouldnt wait at all, you'll see.

[DonC]

Agree. Measure well and set the new arms as close to the old as possible then hither thyself to the alignment shoppe - DON'T WAIT

[PhilipJCaputo]

ok... I won't wait :-(

[PhilipJCaputo]

Quick follow up.....

is it better to have it aligned with old or new tires... or does it even make any difference??

[632 Regal]

dont let em scare you but theres only the toe alignment to do. I think it was Bill R that posted a picture with the specifications.

[Mobius]

Yeah. I thought "Hey, if I make the new ones as close to the same length as the old ones as possible, I can probably wait a week for an alignment! Sure!"

Oh **** no. :) I thought I had those things dead even, and my wheel was almost 90º to the right, and the car didn't like listening to where I wanted it to go.

So yeah, count on getting it done soon after. You can probably get them close enough that you can drive to the shop, but you won't get them close enough that you won't need an alignment.

[632 Regal]

same thing, I was so damn careful to get them exact so that I wouldnt need an alignment and didn plan or have the money for it at the time...guess what, I planed and coughed up the cash the next day.

[Scott C]

same thing, I was so damn careful to get them exact so that I wouldnt need an alignment and didn plan or have the money for it at the time...guess what, I planed and coughed up the cash the next day.


It is only toe in that is adjusted..
So you can make a device to measure the relative position of the tires front to back and set it yourself. I used 2x4's with screw eyes and when I did get new tires, found that I had adjusted it well within specs...

The dealer will tell you to align with new tires.

Scott

[western99]

I'm going to be replacing left & right tie rods this weekend..... if I adjust the new ones similar to the old ones.... how long can I put off getting an alignment...

reason is... I'm going to be getting new tires soon, and I'd like to have it alligned when I get the tires...

I guess if it pulls real hard one way or the other I'll be more inclined to get it alligned sooner....


hope this takes out a lot of the play (crossing my fingers)

[Jon K]

I just replaced and all I did was count exposed threads... i mean really, we're not talking THAT fine of adjustment... the tie rod can face down, so you only have so many pieces of thread... count thread before and after, i did, no problems.

[PhilipJCaputo]

It is only toe in that is adjusted..
So you can make a device to measure the relative position of the tires front to back and set it yourself. I used 2x4's with screw eyes and when I did get new tires, found that I had adjusted it well within specs...

The dealer will tell you to align with new tires.

Scott

You got any pictures of your alignment jig???

[Scott C]

You got any pictures of your alignment jig???

Literally just 2 2x4's, 8 feet long. A big screw eye (it happened to fit into the tire groove just right, a big nail could be used but it might have some slop in the tire groove) is at the end of each board (2" or so from end, doesn't really matter). Two of these boards are used, each with a screw eye, one in front and one in back of the front tires with the head of the screw eye jammed into the tire grove. If your tire groove is wavy, all bets are off, use a different method.... ;)

I then used a board against the face of the tire to draw lines onto the two 2x4's. This board goes flat against the tire, perpendicular to the 2x4's. No magic, just mark onto the 2x4's. Make sure you push consistently into the tire firmly to ensure correct alignment. I then pulled the 2x4's out and set them next to each other to see the difference in lengths (and don't forget which board was in front vs back). When the measurements were within 1/8 to 0" toein, I decided I was good enough.

It will likely take you a few times to get a good feel for how much to turn (and I turned the wrong way a few times) so be patient.

This was also the way I was able to get the steering wheel centered to MY satisfaction. Go real gentle with the tie rods, 1/8 turn IS noticeable.

I never jacked the car up to adjust, always kept it on the ground and adjusted by hand (nice with new tie rod ends). After each adjustment, I think it is worth moving the car forward and back to re-settle the linkage slop.

Not a high tech solution, but better is the enemy of good enough

Good Luck

Scott
(Surprising, many tire shops will NOT touch a BMW alignment)

[PhilipJCaputo]

Thanks for the info Scott....

it doesn't really seem like it will be all that difficult to do.... it'll just take some time.



Literally just 2 2x4's, 8 feet long. A big screw eye (it happened to fit into the tire groove just right, a big nail could be used but it might have some slop in the tire groove) is at the end of each board (2" or so from end, doesn't really matter). Two of these boards are used, each with a screw eye, one in front and one in back of the front tires with the head of the screw eye jammed into the tire grove. If your tire groove is wavy, all bets are off, use a different method.... ;)

I then used a board against the face of the tire to draw lines onto the two 2x4's. This board goes flat against the tire, perpendicular to the 2x4's. No magic, just mark onto the 2x4's. Make sure you push consistently into the tire firmly to ensure correct alignment. I then pulled the 2x4's out and set them next to each other to see the difference in lengths (and don't forget which board was in front vs back). When the measurements were within 1/8 to 0" toein, I decided I was good enough.

It will likely take you a few times to get a good feel for how much to turn (and I turned the wrong way a few times) so be patient.

This was also the way I was able to get the steering wheel centered to MY satisfaction. Go real gentle with the tie rods, 1/8 turn IS noticeable.

I never jacked the car up to adjust, always kept it on the ground and adjusted by hand (nice with new tie rod ends). After each adjustment, I think it is worth moving the car forward and back to re-settle the linkage slop.

Not a high tech solution, but better is the enemy of good enough

Good Luck

Scott
(Surprising, many tire shops will NOT touch a BMW alignment)

[Scott C]

A few more thoughts:

1) Get the alignment close to the 1/8" to 0" toe in first. (Remember, the toe in is to somewhat compensate for the linkage compressing while driving forward as well as to change handling if you are a autocrosser, etc).

2) Then get the steering wheel to the position that is correct - I did this by driving on a no crown road but you may need to drive on a few roads to get the feel of the position. Adjust the tie rods equally to TRY and maintain the adjustment. Don't pop off the steering wheel to correct this!

3) Once you get the wheel position correct, go back and double check the toe in measurement - you may want to measure a few times just to see how repeatable you are being in your measurement. When I first started, I wasn't very good (not pushing consistently the board against the wheel).

4) Sadly, you will need to check and repeat step 2 and 3...

By the second alignment (1.5 years later), I got so I could do this in about 30 - 45 min. (With a few choice words thrown in when I turned the wrong tie rod the wrong way.

Also try to keep the tie rod ends such that they are both at the same rotation angle (due to the twising motion used to adjust the tie rod). I am talking about the rocking angle of the actual ball joints induced by the twisting action. You don't want one end biased one way and the other biased the other way, as this will cause binding and may lead to pre-mature wear.

Good luck!
Scott

[ryan roopnarine]

here's pelican parts article on the subject...they have you make to L shaped pieces of sheet metal and give you some trigonometric values, based on 15 inch wheels. i have the two pieces ready to bend, i just can't find a sheet metal brake right now.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/Borrowed/home_toe_in.htm

[Mobius]

I just replaced and all I did was count exposed threads... i mean really, we're not talking THAT fine of adjustment... the tie rod can face down, so you only have so many pieces of thread... count thread before and after, i did, no problems.Erm.. When you adjust a tie rod, you don't do it in 360º increments because one end can 'only face down' - you loosen both clamps and turn the bar itself, the adjustment increment is infinite - counting threads is only a good way to get you 'almost' in the right place, but it's by no means whatsoever accurate. If you're just replacing one end; sure - but we're talking whole rods here.

Plus you're counting on the new rods being of the exact same length, and the new ends having identical threading, which is a bit much to ask for even an OE part.

Really, just pop the $50 for an alignment - it was probably out to begin with anyhow. :)

[Jon K]

Erm.. When you adjust a tie rod, you don't do it in 360º increments because one end can 'only face down' - you loosen both clamps and turn the bar itself, the adjustment increment is infinite - counting threads is only a good way to get you 'almost' in the right place, but it's by no means whatsoever accurate. If you're just replacing one end; sure - but we're talking whole rods here.

Plus you're counting on the new rods being of the exact same length, and the new ends having identical threading, which is a bit much to ask for even an OE part.

Really, just pop the $50 for an alignment - it was probably out to begin with anyhow. :)


I will pop the $50 for an alignment, however i used a thread chaser and measured shaft length on new and old rod ends, both lemforder, and they were identical. i only replaced the one end of the tie rod joint, the one closest to the wheel. this, so i've seen on many cars, is the one most likely to fail. thus replacement is really not all that difficult. but, yes, i will be getting an alignment and balance anyhow.

[632 Regal]

Your right about only being able to turn them in 360º incriments but after its close you turn the sleeve that does the fine adjustment.


Erm.. When you adjust a tie rod, you don't do it in 360º increments because one end can 'only face down' - you loosen both clamps and turn the bar itself, the adjustment increment is infinite - counting threads is only a good way to get you 'almost' in the right place, but it's by no means whatsoever accurate. If you're just replacing one end; sure - but we're talking whole rods here.

Plus you're counting on the new rods being of the exact same length, and the new ends having identical threading, which is a bit much to ask for even an OE part.

Really, just pop the $50 for an alignment - it was probably out to begin with anyhow. :)

[ExcessPlay]

From what I know the latest machines align off the rims and not the tires so it will not matter what shape the tire are in.