Appearance of used coolant

[andyman32]

Question 1 of many as I start replacing my cooling system:

What should used coolant look like? Upon draining the radiator, I find my coolant blue-green when shallow, but as it filled up, it got brown and dirty with a slight oily film on top. As with most problems on this car, I'm virtually certain this is a bad sign.

Analysis? Thoughts? Recommendations?

Thanks guys -

-Andy

[bimmerd00d]

oil in coolant is indeed a bad sign :(

[andyman32]

Bad headgasket?

[bimmerd00d]

Bad headgasket?

most likely. :(

[andyman32]

Ah ****.

BRET!!! BILL! possibly even rick m! HELLLPPPP!!!

[ryan roopnarine]

if it looks as though there's a "patina" of cooking oil globules floating on top of your antifreeze, that's the normal indicator of undesirables in your cooling system (ie rust, normal wear and tear). if you had motor oil in your coolant, even a LITTLE BIT, you wouldn't have to ask anyone here if that was indeed the case. if you mix a spoonful of tranny fluid or motor oil into 2L of water, you'd be able to tell right away. you just need to clean your system up (even then it will still probably have a wee sheen after some mileage is put on your antifreeze).

[andyman32]

Well, I figured the brownish color would be typical of used coolant. The oily sheen isn't, as you describe it, "globules", as though you dropped cooking oil into water. It's just a bit of a greasy shine, like the rainbow-colored patina on scummy puddles in the supermarket parking lot. Clearly, there is at least some marginal amount of oil in it. I already ordered new headgaskets but I'll be pleased as punch to keep them on the shelf for a few years.

Mostly, I just don't want to get most of the way in there, then stop short, put everything back together, and find that I still have the coolant leak (as well as risk f&cking up new parts). I agree with the "replace it all while you're in there" strategy.

Though, I am officially in way over my head at this point. :)

[ryan roopnarine]

um, there's some lubricity built in to any antifreeze, it keeps such things as waterpumps from seizing up on you :D the rainbow color was exactly was what i was trying to describe. if you don't believe me, and you have some time you are willing to part with, run water in there for a week or so just to make certain. here's an experiment that you can try. take a 500 ml bottle of water. add a few drops of motor oil to it. shake it. it won't take many for it to change to a much more indicative sludge solution than you are seeing in your coolant. if you had oil in there, it would have turned it a much more distinctivecolor than you indicate. brownness that isn't more slick than say, half diluted baby oil is merely cooling system crap.

[ryan roopnarine]

in fact, if you'd like to rest easier tonite, take a digital pic of what you see and upload it to the board. i'd almost bet money that it is likely normal.

[andyman32]

OK.

*PHEW*

Things are probably OK. Now I just need to check for coolant in the oil, which I will do later today. I have a sinking feeling it is mixing; there is dried coolant most of the way around the rim of the lower oil pan. Now, there is a LOT of coolant leaking out of the bad hoses, so it could have just doused the pan. But we'll see; I'm going to take off the pan and replace the gasket anyhow.

Do you guys know where I can find the block coolant drain plug on the V8? This is a show-stopper right now... I can't find it for the life of me.

[ryan roopnarine]

i think that 13 or 14 in this picture are the drains, i'm not sure as i don't own an m60

http://rust.mine.nu/bmw/showparts.do?model=HE63&mospid=45173&prod=19950100&btnr=11_1412&hg=11&fg=10&x=180&y=131




OK.

*PHEW*

Things are probably OK. Now I just need to check for coolant in the oil, which I will do later today. I have a sinking feeling it is mixing; there is dried coolant most of the way around the rim of the lower oil pan. Now, there is a LOT of coolant leaking out of the bad hoses, so it could have just doused the pan. But we'll see; I'm going to take off the pan and replace the gasket anyhow.

Do you guys know where I can find the block coolant drain plug on the V8? This is a show-stopper right now... I can't find it for the life of me.

[632 Regal]

but what your describing is normal and your fine.

[andyman32]

LOL Jeff - I was naming guys who are in this area.

I.e., COME SAVE ME FROM MYSELF! :D

Thanks Ryan, I did locate those two plugs on the side of the block about half-way front-to-back and half-way up. Both are INCREDIBLY cramped, and tucked right in under the exhaust manifold; I'm not quite sure how I will get them off. They looked like what I wanted, but I discounted them because there are two, and I was expecting one (19mm?) plug.

Would it be that bad to just skip draining the block and run water through the system to flush it?

I guess, if all else fails, I can just take out one of those plugs and see what comes pouring out... :-/

[632 Regal]

and flushed it 5 times to get it clean, even started it a couple times to make sure I got all the old crap out. I didnt want to go through the trouble of removing the drivers side plug (did you read the procedure?).

The pass side plug is not hard to remove and reinstall but prepare to take a bath in it.

[andyman32]

Actually, I'm a pretty thin guy, so I was able to get a crescent wrench up in there on the driver's side. I did indeed take a nice coolant bath. When I took out the passenger-side plug, there was not a drop to come out.

Then, putting the plugs back in, I wrenched off the goddamn head of the radiator drain plug. @(#*$&#(*$&@#(*$&

I managed to get the neck of the thing out with a screwdriver and some force (the plug is made of plastic). Apparently, I will need to be far more careful about my torque next time :) Not to mention, for whatever reason, when I got the head back out of the drain, a decent half-quart more coolant had pooled down there for me (i let it drain pretty well before i put it back). Got it right in the neck and chestal area. I'm a real champ at this.

Now - the cooling fan shroud comes off easy enough, but the fan clutch bolt is being a bitch. When I twist it, it just turns the sprocket; it doesn't loosen the nut.

Any suggestions?

[billb]

Now - the cooling fan shroud comes off easy enough, but the fan clutch bolt is being a bitch. When I twist it, it just turns the sprocket; it doesn't loosen the nut.

Any suggestions?

[JonE]

Jeff made a really cool tool for holding the fan clutch "sprocket" still while turning that 32mm reverse thread nut. Sometimes tightening the belt somehow will help, it did on my E30 last weekend when I crammed a tire iron in there under the belt to hold it tighter. A few good wacks with a regular hammer on the 32mm open ended wrench freed it up.

[632 Regal]

Patented 632 Regal Fan Clutch Tool (http://www.bimmer.info/~632regal/Fan%20removal%20tool.jpg)

[andyman32]

Yeah, Bentley's says "if you have trouble getting the fan clutch nut off, use BMW special tool..."

I don't know, tightening the belt may help. I really wish there was some way I could grab hold of that sprocket right behind the bolt - that would do the trick. *hmmmm*

Jeff, what did you use to hold that sprocket still? That's exactly what I want to do. I'm thinking... locking clamp? But that might be too tight and crush the sprocket.

[JonE]

I just knew that "orc" weapon would show up again!

[632 Regal]

Yeah, Bentley's says "if you have trouble getting the fan clutch nut off, use BMW special tool..."

I don't know, tightening the belt may help. I really wish there was some way I could grab hold of that sprocket right behind the bolt - that would do the trick. *hmmmm*

Jeff, what did you use to hold that sprocket still? That's exactly what I want to do. I'm thinking... locking clamp? But that might be too tight and crush the sprocket.

[JonE]

The new BMP catalog has a pretty good picture of how that "special" tool works. I noticed the part # is different depending on which model/engine you have.

[andyman32]

Cool tool Jeff. So, the hole there fits over one of the four sprocket mounting bolts to hold it still while you wrench the fan bolt in the other direction?

*sigh*

Can I get one of those at AutoZone? :)

[andyman32]

BTW - I thought better of using a locking clamp to hold that sprocket. :p

In a gravel driveway, with an overstuffed toolbox, no torch and no scrap metal, I'm trying to imagine what I can use to hold the pully while I apply the clockwise torque.

hey, as long as you guys are on this thread - do you usually remove the hood when you do this much work? The forward-tilting hood is frankly a bitch when you need to get in front of the block, but I don't know if removing the hood is justified.

[632 Regal]

BTW - I thought better of using a locking clamp to hold that sprocket. :p

In a gravel driveway, with an overstuffed toolbox, no torch and no scrap metal, I'm trying to imagine what I can use to hold the pully while I apply the clockwise torque.

hey, as long as you guys are on this thread - do you usually remove the hood when you do this much work? The forward-tilting hood is frankly a bitch when you need to get in front of the block, but I don't know if removing the hood is justified.

[andyman32]

I made a special tool too. It's so unbelievably, ground-breakingly cool that I had to snap some pictures of it and post it for you guys:

http://www.andywhalen.com/images/car/special_tool0.JPG

http://www.andywhalen.com/images/car/special_tool1.JPG

If you can picture this, you put the closed end of the 10mm wrench around one of the four sprocket mounting bolts, then turn it counterclockwise until it hits the big fan clutch nut. Then, put your open-end crescent wrench around the 32mm nut. Hold the 10mm wrench firmly as you twist in the opposite direction with the 32mm crescent wrench. It does take some seriously frustrating finagling, but once you get the tools in place, it spins right off.

[JonE]

Wow! and according to your posts it only took about 15-20minutes, that is amazing!! Must be more space in your vehicle to get a crescent wrench in there, wasn't happening with my E30 or the 535i. Good job, man!

[billb]

I made a special tool too. It's so unbelievably, ground-breakingly cool that I had to snap some pictures of it and post it for you guys:

http://www.andywhalen.com/images/car/special_tool0.JPG

http://www.andywhalen.com/images/car/special_tool1.JPG

If you can picture this, you put the closed end of the 10mm wrench around one of the four sprocket mounting bolts, then turn it counterclockwise until it hits the big fan clutch nut. Then, put your open-end crescent wrench around the 32mm nut. Hold the 10mm wrench firmly as you twist in the opposite direction with the 32mm crescent wrench. It does take some seriously frustrating finagling, but once you get the tools in place, it spins right off.

[632 Regal]

clearance issues if I remember right. That is extremely simple. Even the Orc weapon was a bitch to get it to hang on enough to lock into position.

[andyman32]

Well, I can see how your orc blade would barely grip those bolts - they only protrude from flush with the pulley by less than 1mm. The only way I could do it was by using that tiny 10mm wrench together with a thin adjustable crescent wrench; the fixed 1.25" wrench (1.25" is almost exactly 32mm) was too fat to fit in there together with the little 10mm wrench. And, I had to use the "bent" closed end of the 10mm wrench to get further down on the bolt; they don't protrude far enough to use the open end.

Wow, the 8 shock damper pulley bolts are on there good! I scraped my knuckles somethin' fierce getting those off.

Drive belts and pulleys are off... now removing / swapping out water pump...

[632 Regal]

you dont remove those, you loosen the 2 holding bolts! Ones the hinge, ones the max adjustment bolt...

:D

youll have to loosen them to get the new belt on there anyways...maybe it can work that way too.

[andyman32]

Oh, no, Jeff, i know. There are actually 2 belts on the front end of the M62, so there are 2 tensioners. I did loosen the tensioners and took off both belts. However, one (just one!) of the six water pump mounting bolts is hidden cleverly just out of reach (but not out of sight) behind the shock damper. You have to remove the shock damper pulley (according to Bentley's too, mind you!) to get at that last water pump bolt.

Kinda sucks, though - you have to do it all by touch. You can't see any of it directly. And I do NOT look forward to getting those bolts back on there by sense of touch alone.

[632 Regal]

I have the same M-60 deal and remember that one, I fished around and used a wrench that took what seemed endless beers to get it out with a wrench. I also fished it back in there to button it up, I just didnt want to tear farther into it as I have to drive the car in the morning. Anyways youll get the bolt out and in in record time compared to me. I think that project cost me over a case of beer for myself but I also did the acid/baking soda treatment to the back hose going to the block/heater deal which stole some additional time.

[andyman32]

Only took me 3 beers. :-p Of course, that doesn't include tomorrow morning. I got the shock damper pulley off, but had to quit because it was getting dark and it was about to rain.

Tomorrow, now that I've got a handle on things, I plan to have a new water pump and new hoses (well... MOST new hoses... new hose clamps everywhere else) within 2 hours.

Then it's on to... MOTOR MOUNTS! *woman shrieks in background*

*lightning & thunder*

[632 Regal]

i'm clarkstondude.