540 Headers

[l8apex]

Does anyone know if SuperSprint e-39 540 headers will work on an e-34 540?

Dave Brennan
1994 540i 180,000 miles on Nikasil original block. Runs Strong.

[Springfield1952]

Why?? If I remember correctly that header set costs somewhere north of $3,000 and your 540 already has a set of stainless steel tube "headers" from the factory. Seems like the cost to benefit ratio is way out of whack.

Curt.
1994 530iT

[l8apex]

Curt,
You are correct insofar as the V-8 has "tube" headers from the factory. Their appearance is deceptive, however, in that they are "double wall" tubes with an insulating air space between the walls. Therefore, the outside diameter that you can see is significantly larger in diameter than the inner diameter that the exhaust gasses actually go through.
The main reason that I would consider the expense (if they fit), is that I am considering developing a custom twin-screw compressor setup with integrated air-to-water aftercooling. The logic is that if you push more gasses into the engine, you have to make allowances for the resultant larger volume of gasses to excape. Thus the headers. I can have a custom set of headers built if I have to, but I'd prefer ready-made.
Dave



Why?? If I remember correctly that header set costs somewhere north of $3,000 and your 540 already has a set of stainless steel tube "headers" from the factory. Seems like the cost to benefit ratio is way out of whack.

Curt.
1994 530iT

[AllanS]

What kind of a fool would pay over $3k or headers???? The material costs alone can't even be 1/3 of that :P

[632 Regal]

weld em up yourself, all you need is the flanges.

[l8apex]

AllanS,

Name calling and denigration are good indicators of a small mind.
This type of exchange is not conducive to the objective of this forum.
If you have nothing constructive to contribute, kindly keep your opinions to yourself, or post them in a more appropriate setting so that you can share them with those of like mind. I hope that the moderator is monitoring this exchange, and will take action against you.

[AllanS]

Excuse me? Name calling? What are you talking about? What name did I call you?

Anyone who would pay that much for headers is indeed a fool- I'm sorry to break it to you, or somehow hurt your feelings. We're not talking about a Ferrari here. If you bought those headers you'd be paying 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of your car for some overpriced stainless steel, which only give a tiny amount of hp on the e39 m5.

[l8apex]

My feelings are not hurt. I AM offended that you would unthinkingly use our otherwise excellent PUBLIC forum to demonstrate your small mind. If I want to pursue a certain course of enhancement, who are you to denigrate my effort? I have had this car since new, and it is my track car. I am in the process of developing an air-to-water aftercooled twin-screw compressor setup for the BMW V-8. This car will be my test mule. Most people know that if you stuff more air into an engine, you need to enhance the removal of exhaust gasses. Yes, I could weld up a set of headers, but have no convenient facility for this locally.
I noticed that you forgot to respond to my post in terms of answering my original question. Kindly refrain from making incorrect assumptions based upon inadequate information and then spewing your pronouncements as though you know something about the situation.

[AllanS]

Stop making mountains out of molehills l8apex. You said it yourself: PUBLIC forum. I'm not trying to denigrate your effort or intentions, I'm just telling you that 3k$ is a helluva lot of money to drop on headers. If you want to buy them, go ahead and buy them.

I'm in the process of developing an intercooled turbocharger setup for my 535i, and originally started with a custom stainless steel manifold. Stainless steel simply is not that much more expensive than mild steel, to justify such a high price. Any minute gains will be negligable due to the cost.

And in terms of your original question, no one who resonded answered it exactly. They don't have to, in fact, since this is, again, a PUBLIC forum. Once you post, you open yourself up to comment. All responding threads have the same vein- the supersprint headers are too expensive for what you get. I doubt anyone else on this forum has bought them.

Now, the stock headers on the e39 m5 are almost identical to yours. Obviously BMW didn't feel the necessity to upgrade them on their 400hp v8. European Car put them on an m5 a few months ago and got a whopping 25hp out of them.

[Martin in Bellevue]

I responded with what I thought to be good insight to his post & got abused.

I guess for some, it is easy to be bold in the anunymous internet forum.

[AllanS]

Wait, Martin, what post was that?

[632 Regal]

Allen does come off a bit rude at times...hasnt blasted me yet tho. :D

[Brandon J]

All responding threads have the same vein- the supersprint headers are too expensive for what you get. I doubt anyone else on this forum has bought them.

Now, the stock headers on the e39 m5 are almost identical to yours. Obviously BMW didn't feel the necessity to upgrade them on their 400hp v8. European Car put them on an m5 a few months ago and got a whopping 25hp out of them.Supersprint headers are expensive for the e39 V8s. However, nobody on this forum probably has not bought them because this is an e34 focused group. There are a lot, I mean a lot of M5 owners who have used the supersprint headers (or those same headers under different names). The stock e39 headers are junk; not equal length, they are crimped, they use one tube for every 2 cylinders where the 2nd cylinder just dumps (using a small tube)into the one longer tube. Headers for the M30 or S50 engines don't even yield as much as the supersprint headers for the M62tu/S62.

Now as far as good enough for BMW, using the M62 headers on the S62 was cheaper and helped yield the 400hp mark. Engineers said that the S62 engine was no where near its max, and they choked it with the headers specifically for cost and the target hp rating. So, those headers were good enough for BMW because of market reasons.

The headers are expensive, but are worth it. It raises the HP and TQ in a manner that duplicates the stock curves, just raising it. Then add to that minimal drawback. Unlike some software or cams or even forced unduction, the headers are a real bolt on and not worry product, even with emmissions. They even make it simple to install where you could do it yourself and not have to lift the engine. Now imagine all the labor with cams, etc. Last thing, it is also another way to improve consistency between cylinders.

[AllanS]

You guys just don't get my unique sense of humor...

...anyway, sorry David, sorry Martin, if I was nasty, I didn't realize it.

[l8apex]

Any thoughts on fitment of the SuperSprint headers onto an e-34 540? Clearance issues? Bolts right on?
Dave

Supersprint headers are expensive for the e39 V8s. However, nobody on this forum probably has not bought them because this is an e34 focused group. There are a lot, I mean a lot of M5 owners who have used the supersprint headers (or those same headers under different names). The stock e39 headers are junk; not equal length, they are crimped, they use one tube for every 2 cylinders where the 2nd cylinder just dumps (using a small tube)into the one longer tube. Headers for the M30 or S50 engines don't even yield as much as the supersprint headers for the M62tu/S62.

Now as far as good enough for BMW, using the M62 headers on the S62 was cheaper and helped yield the 400hp mark. Engineers said that the S62 engine was no where near its max, and they choked it with the headers specifically for cost and the target hp rating. So, those headers were good enough for BMW because of market reasons.

The headers are expensive, but are worth it. It raises the HP and TQ in a manner that duplicates the stock curves, just raising it. Then add to that minimal drawback. Unlike some software or cams or even forced unduction, the headers are a real bolt on and not worry product, even with emmissions. They even make it simple to install where you could do it yourself and not have to lift the engine. Now imagine all the labor with cams, etc. Last thing, it is also another way to improve consistency between cylinders.

[l8apex]

You guys just don't get my unique sense of humor...

...anyway, sorry David, sorry Martin, if I was nasty, I didn't realize it.

[Brandon J]

I don't know too much about fitting e39 V8 headers on the e34. I would be concerned about clearance with the steering system and the subframe. Also, OBDII O2 sensor holes may need to be plugged. I believe RD sport made some headers, but that was years ago. The e34 V8 just did not have the market that the e39 V8 cars do so it is difficult to find them. You might be better off just making one from scratch (then copy it so that you can sell them..muwahaha).

[AllanS]

You can still get RDSport headers for the m5, they're a few hundred dollars cheaper than the supersprints and don't require welding.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-47632

[rockyfeller]

Not to get involved here, but that was some interesting reading....what were you guys talking about...headers?

[DueyT]

Not to get involved here, but that was some interesting reading....what were you guys talking about...headers?
Rocky, they are welded tubular exhaust pipes. They are designed for maximum exhaust gas flow, including designing the length of each cylinder's exhaust tube so as to equalize or smoothly spread out the timing of the exhaust pressure pulses of the engine. This is good for flow since improperly designed/lengthened tubes can effectively result in exhaust pulses "colliding" with each other at the main collector, thus resulting in higher back pressure and non-optimum exhaust flow.

The M60 (3.0 and 4.0 L) engine's headers are a double wall construction, primarily to keep the under-hood temperatures down and keep the exhaust gas temperatures maximized. Tthe higher the exhaust temp, the higher the velocity and better the exhaust works (relative to the intake) and the higher the volumetric efficiency of the motor. This generally makes for more efficient and powerful performance from the engine.


Cheers,
Duey

[632 Regal]

Rocky, they are welded tubular exhaust pipes. They are designed for maximum exhaust gas flow, including designing the length of each cylinder's exhaust tube so as to equalize or smoothly spread out the timing of the exhaust pressure pulses of the engine. This is good for flow since improperly designed/lengthened tubes can effectively result in exhaust pulses "colliding" with each other at the main collector, thus resulting in higher back pressure and non-optimum exhaust flow.

The M60 (3.0 and 4.0 L) engine's headers are a double wall construction, primarily to keep the under-hood temperatures down and keep the exhaust gas temperatures maximized. Tthe higher the exhaust temp, the higher the velocity and better the exhaust works (relative to the intake) and the higher the volumetric efficiency of the motor. This generally makes for more efficient and powerful performance from the engine.


Cheers,
Duey

[callen]

Dude...some people have resources....and it they're applied to my favorite car the E34 thats really cool....