are my highbeams and foglights NOT supposed to come on at the same time....

[ryan roopnarine]

with the motor off? it was the first time in about 9 months that all 6 lamps have had bulbs in them (with the .90 cent kmart bulbs :D ), and i tried to turn on low+highbeams +fogs with the ignition turned to pre-start (not accessory). when i put the highbeams on, the fogs turned off, and when i took them off, the fogs came back on. i know its quite a drain (60*6 bulbs, roughly). is this supposed to happen?

[talltorontoguy]

Hey Ryan,

Whenever high beams are activated the driving / fog lights are deactivated automatically.

Rod

[Mr Project]

That crazy old german logic....why would you use your highbeams in fog? And why would you use foglamps when it's clear out? :)


They had never met a pontiac driver. :)

[632 Regal]

the good ol USA allows only 4 headlingts per vehicke max, thus the disapeering fog lights. Get them all to work at once and enjoy a fat ticket.

[Mr Project]

Really? So do they not count H + L + F as 6 if 4 are in the same housings? 'Cause I've seen a lot of domestic cars and trucks that don't shut off the fogs when the highs go on....

[Paul in NZ]

euro lkm anyone :p 90c bulbs...... phooey

[632 Regal]

Really? So do they not count H + L + F as 6 if 4 are in the same housings? 'Cause I've seen a lot of domestic cars and trucks that don't shut off the fogs when the highs go on....

[andyman32]

Yeah, when my high beams go on, the low beams go off. Fogs stay on. At least... I *think* they do... hmm...

<turns and looks supiciously out the window @ parked car>

[Dick Schneiders]

I would really like to know so that I can understand all the idiots here in Kansas that love to do this, in town on a clear night.


Yeah, when my high beams go on, the low beams go off. Fogs stay on. At least... I *think* they do... hmm...

<turns and looks supiciously out the window @ parked car>

[Paul in NZ]

I hate the people who drive around with their foglights on on clear nights.Even with dipped beams!Dont they realize that they point slightly up?Even worse are the Euro car owners who run round with the rear foglights on!!!!

[JeremyT]

Well,I don't know why the city guys run the fogs all the time...guess they think it looks cool. I've got a modified LKM which allows all 6 to be on at one time. My reason is simply that the more light the better. BUT I live about 25 miles outside of town, and commute out of town 3 days out of the week.... so there is a lot of back road driving at night with VERY few oncoming cars... which also makes driving BMWs fun!!! no cops = no radar!! When I do approach oncoming traffic, I nicely switch off the accessory lights so they won't be blinded. Then light 'em all up again to avoid all the deer & armadillos...

[andyman32]

I would really like to know so that I can understand all the idiots here in Kansas that love to do this, in town on a clear night.

Woah there killer, I didn't say I WANT to use high beams and fogs at the same time, nor DO I... all I said is, my car exhibits this behavior. It's pertinent to the topic. I almost never use my high beams anyhow, except driving on winding, poorly-lit neighborhood or country roads. I mean, this is not rocket science. It's headlights.

As for using fogs, I tend to use them most of the time at night, just because (I agree), the more light, the better. They point off to the side, and they are NOT directed "up", they are just wide-dispersion. It's a distinct advantage for visibility down low and to the side of the road. If you look at the dispersion pattern of the fogs at night against a wall, you wouldn't have anything to whine about, because they focus in a wide area on the ground close to (and to the side of) the car anyhow. The higher area, already covered by low-beams, is not very intense at all. People who claim they're "blinded" by fog lights must mean something else, because fog lights (at least, REAL fog lights, not just for-show ones) are not the kind of thing that can blind an oncoming driver.

[Anton CH.]

I find that I can see much better with fogs off. Fog lights just end up creating a lot of foreground light and I can't see what far ahead because all light is in front of the car.

[Paul in NZ]

It may not be direct focussed light but having your fogs on means there is double the light output.And some cars fogs have more glare than others.It is not necessary to drive around in the city or suburbs with your lows and fogs on on a clear night,it creates more glarefor oncoming drivers.

[winfred]

ditto, i like more light and i know how to aim my lights to not have them pointing in the other drivers face, the fog's widen the area lit letting you see the curbs and what may be ready to leap from them, only in the winding country roads would i want all 6 going, that's a pretty good power drain


Woah there killer, I didn't say I WANT to use high beams and fogs at the same time, nor DO I... all I said is, my car exhibits this behavior. It's pertinent to the topic. I almost never use my high beams anyhow, except driving on winding, poorly-lit neighborhood or country roads. I mean, this is not rocket science. It's headlights.

As for using fogs, I tend to use them most of the time at night, just because (I agree), the more light, the better. They point off to the side, and they are NOT directed "up", they are just wide-dispersion. It's a distinct advantage for visibility down low and to the side of the road. If you look at the dispersion pattern of the fogs at night against a wall, you wouldn't have anything to whine about, because they focus in a wide area on the ground close to (and to the side of) the car anyhow. The higher area, already covered by low-beams, is not very intense at all. People who claim they're "blinded" by fog lights must mean something else, because fog lights (at least, REAL fog lights, not just for-show ones) are not the kind of thing that can blind an oncoming driver.

[ryan roopnarine]

unfortunately for my job, i have to be able to drive around and find things in the dark, i was hoping that all 6 could be on at the same time. i certainly don't intend to drive around with lo/fogs on in normal weather, and no way in hell with all 6 on if i don't really need it.

[andyman32]

Yeah, lighting the shortground is very useful unless you have a penchant for running over small animals. The more I can see in front of the car, the better. Including potholes, broken curb, garbage, animals, whatever. Plus, I think the fogs DO look really sexy on the front of some cars (NOT SUBARUs, FFS). I have never accepted the "it blinds me!!!" line as a valid criticism. Fogs DO NOT blind you, period, end of discussion. If you really get blinded or have serious eye strain from foglights, you must also level your complaint with equal force against low beams... and turning signals...

And not to put too fine a point on it, Paul, but right below your criticisms of fog lights, you have a picture of the nose of your own car with all six burning. Clearly, you seem to think at least SOMEWHAT positively about the aesthetic of using the fogs.

As for all 6... my car can't do that. I guess I could see it being useful on REALLY dark country roads at high speeds, but I don't have any need that would justify mods to have all 6 running.


ditto, i like more light and i know how to aim my lights to not have them pointing in the other drivers face, the fog's widen the area lit letting you see the curbs and what may be ready to leap from them, only in the winding country roads would i want all 6 going, that's a pretty good power drain

[Paul in NZ]

The only reason i have all six burning in the sig pic is cos I can and most of you guys cant :D ...I guess i just have a thing about fog lights or maybe i am just getting old and cranky(and more sensitive to glare)

[andyman32]

The only reason i have all six burning in the sig pic is cos I can and most of you guys cant :D ...I guess i just have a thing about fog lights or maybe i am just getting old and cranky(and more sensitive to glare)


:-P I bet I'm crankier than you are ;)

[Jon K]

I am not too sympathetic for people complaining about fog lights being on at night... they don't bother me. mine, nor other cars, ever. i honestly don't see how people complain about "fog light glare." they're 55w bulbs in low lamps that project our to the side.... across a highway it looks fine, no issues, up close, fine no issues... i have 6,000ks, properly aimed.... i dont get any flicks of the highs at me nor do my friends complain when i drive behind them... maybe your areas have ghetto aimed fog/head lights...

[Mobius]

I am not too sympathetic for people complaining about fog lights being on at night... BMW fog lights actually have some sort of beam pattern built into the fluted lens. FMVSS regulations don't regulate fog lights much, and there are definitely some cars that have more 'flood lights' than 'fog lights' - take any recent-model Ford Explorer, for example.

Then there are the absolute idiots who stuff overwatt/HID bulbs in their fogs - completely negating their actual purpose - who deserve to be driven off the road*.

*not really - just a figure of speech..

[Paul in NZ]

are definitely some cars that have more 'flood lights' than 'fog lights' - take any recent-model Ford Explorer, for example.

Then there are the absolute idiots who stuff overwatt/HID bulbs in their fogs - completely negating their actual purpose - who deserve to be driven off the road
I think they are the idiots to whom i refer!

[andyman32]

BMW fog lights actually have some sort of beam pattern built into the fluted lens. FMVSS regulations don't regulate fog lights much, and there are definitely some cars that have more 'flood lights' than 'fog lights' - take any recent-model Ford Explorer, for example.


Yeah Mobius, well, that's a different story, when we have Commuter Dad is bearing down on you in an 8-foot-tall SUV, the head/fog/floodlights that shine properly DOWN are shining down right into cars' mirrors. Yeah, THAT is a pain in the arse.

[JeremyT]

aftermarket, incorrectly aimed, piece of crap lights have probably been most of the reason for the complaints. I just love to see a Neon w/ some cheap crappy set of so called 'fogs' aimed up like they were high beams... or better yet, lights improperly mounted and shaking as the cars moved down the road... ghetto, baby!

[Dick Schneiders]

Because, no matter what you all say, I certainly do get blinded often by drivers that are using their fog lights in town, and my eyes are just fine.

I might have a low tolerance for this stuff, because I still believe that the majority of them that do this in town on a clear night are simply "showing off" the fact that they have fog lights. You know, "look at me, aren't I cool!".

I sometimes, when especially pissed off at a driver that has obviously added fogs to their vehicle, with those bright blue lights, turn mine on at them in spite. From what you are saying, mine probably don't cause any discomfort since they are proper fog lights, and so I am really not retaliating in any way.

I know, this is a juvenile reaction, but some stuff gets me riled too easily.

Dick Schneiders

BMW fog lights actually have some sort of beam pattern built into the fluted lens. FMVSS regulations don't regulate fog lights much, and there are definitely some cars that have more 'flood lights' than 'fog lights' - take any recent-model Ford Explorer, for example.

Then there are the absolute idiots who stuff overwatt/HID bulbs in their fogs - completely negating their actual purpose - who deserve to be driven off the road*.

*not really - just a figure of speech..

[winfred]

hella 550 driving lights are bad ass if ya wanna get nasty, had those and h4 conversions on my old 75 240d benz, i couldn't out run em but i could burn the paint off the back of their car :D


I sometimes, when especially pissed off at a driver that has obviously added fogs to their vehicle, with those bright blue lights, turn mine on at them in spite. From what you are saying, mine probably don't cause any discomfort since they are proper fog lights, and so I am really not retaliating in any way.

I know, this is a juvenile reaction, but some stuff gets me riled too easily.

Dick Schneiders

[Jon K]

I think they are the idiots to whom i refer!


wah wah....

[Mobius]

wah wah....Hey Jon! Some people might be more sensitive to glare than you, with your SUPER-EYES. This is why we have regulatory agencies that (currently fail) to regulate the amount of glare coming from headlamps.

Why don't you check this out: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf82/176157_web.pdf - you can start at page 25.

Then you can read this: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf75/149139_web.pdf
And; hell - most of the responses to the NHTSA's RFC on FMVSS 108: http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm?numberValue=8885&searchType=docket

The long and short of it: You're a jackass if you drive around on a perfectly clear night with your fog lamps on; and you're ten times the jackass if you do that with overwatt/HID bulbs in your fogs.

Don't be a jackass.

[Jon K]

[QUOTE=Mobius]Hey Jon! Some people might be more sensitive to glare than you, with your SUPER-EYES. This is why we have regulatory agencies that (currently fail) to regulate the amount of glare coming from headlamps.

Why don't you check this out: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf82/176157_web.pdf - you can start at page 25.

Then you can read this: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf75/149139_web.pdf
And; hell - most of the responses to the NHTSA's RFC on FMVSS 108: http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResultsSimple.cfm?numberValue=8885&searchType=docket

The long and short of it: You're a jackass if you drive around on a perfectly clear night with your fog lamps on; and you're ten times the jackass if you do that with overwatt/HID bulbs in your fogs.



I'm a jackass because I drive around with my fog lights on. Am i a jackass for having euro spec headlights too? and HIDs? damn i hope im not a three-fold jackass...

[winfred]

i am a single jackass in the 535 and a double jackass in the 325 with my h4s, id be a triple jackass if i set up the 325 to run my 100w h1s to come on with the fogs


I'm a jackass because I drive around with my fog lights on. Am i a jackass for having euro spec headlights too? and HIDs? damn i hope im not a three-fold jackass...

[Mobius]

I'm a jackass because I drive around with my fog lights onYes.

Am i a jackass for having euro spec headlights too?
One of the primary differences between an E-code beam pattern and a US beam pattern is a significant reduction of glare and 'up light'. One of the big hangups that keep us from adopting (superior) E-code headlamp specifications is that the NHTSA insists we dedicate a certain amount of light sent straight UP to illuminate overhead road signs.

The big difference in e-code lights is the reduction of this wasted 'uplight' so that it may be used to illuminate the road in front of you. The big difference is a reduction of glare to oncoming drivers.

So; no.

and HIDs?In a housing that was designed for halogen bulbs? Yes.

damn i hope im not a three-fold jackass...Two-fold - by my count. Though it would be much worse if you were doing this in a car that had much worse fixtures to begin with. There are cars with much worse headlight fixtures to hack HID bulbs into. There are cars with foglamps that seem to do anything but produce a wide and low dispersion of light.

[Anton CH.]

So am I jackass for trying to run 100w h1's in my euro ellipsoids?

I don't understand why you guys have such problems with cars driving with fogs. It never caused any glare problems. Once I even saw an e36 m3 driving with nothing but HID fogs, no glare.

[Jon K]

You're so misconstrude.


I have HIDs in my euro projector headlights... the beam pattern is precise and non-offensive... they were not "designed" for HID, but they're not reflector housings... my yellow fogs are hardly offensive in any fashion. do you cry when the eye doctor shines his light in your eye too? officer, turn the spot light out the glare is too offensive... please. you're going to grow into one of those glaucoma patients with the wrap around sunglasses.... there has to be some phobia attached with this disorder... glarophobia...

[Mobius]

I have HIDs in my euro projector headlights... the beam pattern is precise and non-offensive... they were not "designed" for HID, but they're not reflector housings...Absolutely true - they were not designed for an HID bulb. They weren't designed to deal with the extra light output. Let me be clear, it's FAR, FAR better that you did this in E-code fixtures, but it's still nowhere near as 'legitimate' and safe as a true HID system. It's still a hack. It's still illegal (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/interps/files/kim.ztv.html) under FMVSS 108 S5.8 and S7.7 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/49cfr571.108.htm).


my yellow fogs are hardly offensive in any fashion. do you cry when the eye doctor shines his light in your eye too? officer, turn the spot light out the glare is too offensive... please. you're going to grow into one of those glaucoma patients with the wrap around sunglasses.... there has to be some phobia attached with this disorder... glarophobia...Personally, I'm not very affected by glare. I know people who are, however. If you read the second link in my previous post, you'd see that in Illinois alone, 847 accidents in 2000 were attributed to being "blinded by headlights".

Incidentally, people with lighter-colored eyes are typically more sensitive to glare (see page 7 (http://www.mvlc.info/pdf/AAA_Study_Headlight_Glare.pdf)) - mine are dark hazel.

Like I said earlier - BMW foglight fixtures are comparatively quite good as far as glare goes. I'm taking issue with your discounting the issue of glare entirely; it is very definitely a valid safety concern. My sources in my previous post support that point.

And my respect for running yellow fogs - that is absolutely the only way to go for an actual usable foglamp - but if you're going to go with a practical color, why bother running them when its not even foggy out?

[Dick Schneiders]

which is what they are designed for, then use them when it is foggy and use them with yellow lenses. Peiple do not need to have ultra bright flood lights when driving in most normal conditions at night - certainly not on a clear night while driving in town. Especially if your headlights are aimed properly.

Maybe they do give the driver a bit of extra light, but when they cause problems for other drivers, then they are detrimental for both of you. Perhaps some particular applications would not cause glare, but I am still doubtful, but there are many cars that I see where this is not the case at all. Driving with fogs on all the time, even if it doesn't cause problems, encourages others who don't drive bimmers to feel they need to add fogs to their Focus, Neon, F150, etc. and often what they end up with are bright flood lights that are misaimed.

Again, I will not be convinced that in any but the most extreme situations, you need to have your fogs on.

And no matter what you "use the fog lights at all times" proponents say, many of us other drivers do get blinded by some fog (or flood) lights.






Like I said earlier - BMW foglight fixtures are comparatively quite good as far as glare goes. I'm taking issue with your discounting the issue of glare entirely; it is very definitely a valid safety concern. My sources in my previous post support that point.

And my respect for running yellow fogs - that is absolutely the only way to go for an actual usable foglamp - but if you're going to go with a practical color, why bother running them when its not even foggy out?

[Jon K]

Absolutely true - they were not designed for an HID bulb. They weren't designed to deal with the extra light output. Let me be clear, it's FAR, FAR better that you did this in E-code fixtures, but it's still nowhere near as 'legitimate' and safe as a true HID system. It's still a hack. It's still illegal (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/interps/files/kim.ztv.html) under FMVSS 108 S5.8 and S7.7 (http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/49cfr571.108.htm).

Personally, I'm not very affected by glare. I know people who are, however. If you read the second link in my previous post, you'd see that in Illinois alone, 847 accidents in 2000 were attributed to being "blinded by headlights".

Incidentally, people with lighter-colored eyes are typically more sensitive to glare (see page 7 (http://www.mvlc.info/pdf/AAA_Study_Headlight_Glare.pdf)) - mine are dark hazel.

Like I said earlier - BMW foglight fixtures are comparatively quite good as far as glare goes. I'm taking issue with your discounting the issue of glare entirely; it is very definitely a valid safety concern. My sources in my previous post support that point.

And my respect for running yellow fogs - that is absolutely the only way to go for an actual usable foglamp - but if you're going to go with a practical color, why bother running them when its not even foggy out?


I know all about the legalities of running the HIDs in the US in a car that didn't come with them. My friends have OEM xenons on their E46. We park next to one another and light up a wall... my beam pattern is better than theirs. The amount of light being put out has no handle on the lens/projector. The light, no matter how bright, is essentially going to go through the projetor the same way be it 35w HID, 55w Halogen, 100w Halogen, etc. The difference is the color primarily, and the lumens. My shields are modified in the europe projector so as to make for a flatter cutoff pattern. But honestly, as long as your aren't using reflector housings with HID, you're fine. OEM headlights glare more than the aftermarket (non-reflector) that i've seen.

[callen]

Automakers in the US shouldn't put fogs on cars.......99% of drivers think they are a for asthetics. It's really bad in Texas when all the soccor moms driver their Expeditions around with the fogs on all the time......as you mention funny seeing a person driving with high end Euro sedan with rear fog on...and they haven't a clue.

[winfred]

the biggest problem around here is all of the *******s driving around with high beams on, it's like someone said it's cool, like that **** with the kids running around with their pants hanging off of their ass, like larry the cable guy said "i thought one of the rappers had died and they were wearing their pants at halfmast"


Automakers in the US shouldn't put fogs on cars.......99% of drivers think they are a for asthetics. It's really bad in Texas when all the soccor moms driver their Expeditions around with the fogs on all the time......as you mention funny seeing a person driving with high end Euro sedan with rear fog on...and they haven't a clue.

[Beemr750]

Fla has no car safety inspections and you will find illegal or neglected cars (junkers) on the roads any time of the day.
It gets right out criminal how some people missuse their priviliges and put themself and others in harmsway.

It's not uncommon to be blinded because all they have working is one highbeam. Also in rural areas at night some 4x4 with rollbars above their cab have up to SIX foglights on any time they feel like it.

Make you wish there was a uniform traffic law for the country.

[DueyT]

The only reason i have all six burning in the sig pic is cos I can and most of you guys cant :D ...I guess i just have a thing about fog lights or maybe i am just getting old and cranky(and more sensitive to glare)Andy, don't worry...Paul's just trying to compensate for his small...er...narrow grill!:D

On-topic, I have my driving/fogs adjusted properly so as not to cause glare...I prefer the way my peripheral vision is aided...gives me a better feel for what's happening immediately to either side of the car (curbs, shoulder, other items, etc...)

Cheers,
Duey

[andyman32]

like larry the cable guy said "i thought one of the rappers had died and they were wearing their pants at halfmast"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... that's rich. :) Nice one.

[Reidal]

Fog lights are designed to shine under the fog, giving improved visibility where low main or high main would simply reflect back in you face making it impossible to see. Therefore, there is no need to have mains working at the same time as the fog lights.

Unfortunately, there seems to have been a world wide relaxation of regulation, possible driven by car manufacturers for cosmetic/esthetic reasons, and many people (and I'm being generous about this) now misuse them as marker lights or highlighters because the vehicle light switching allows this.

Fog lights used during normal operation give little or no advantage for seeing things in the dark if you are traveling much over 30 mph because they are focused close. At speed you have already run over whatever you see before you can react when seeing it by fog lights.

I remember years ago in NZ when Fog lights were not allowed to operate when main lights (high or low beam) where on.

As far as I know, this legislation has never been reversed. It is just not enforced like it used to be.

As a person who has sensitive eyes, I can tell you that fog lights do distract and cause confusion. This is particularly annoying when per my comment above, they are next to useless as used by the average motorist. I'm stressed and inconvenienced for no good reason and when I mention this to some drivers, they are often not even aware they have them on.

[Jon K]

Fog lights are designed to shine under the fog, giving improved visibility where low main or high main would simply reflect back in you face making it impossible to see. Therefore, there is no need to have mains working at the same time as the fog lights.

Unfortunately, there seems to have been a world wide relaxation of regulation, possible driven by car manufacturers for cosmetic/esthetic reasons, and many people (and I'm being generous about this) now misuse them as marker lights or highlighters because the vehicle light switching allows this.

Fog lights used during normal operation give little or no advantage for seeing things in the dark if you are traveling much over 30 mph because they are focused close. At speed you have already run over whatever you see before you can react when seeing it by fog lights.

I remember years ago in NZ when Fog lights were not allowed to operate when main lights (high or low beam) where on.

As far as I know, this legislation has never been reversed. It is just not enforced like it used to be.

As a person who has sensitive eyes, I can tell you that fog lights do distract and cause confusion. This is particularly annoying when per my comment above, they are next to useless as used by the average motorist. I'm stressed and inconvenienced for no good reason and when I mention this to some drivers, they are often not even aware they have them on.

No need to have low beams on with fog lights? are you crazy? you can't see farther than 15' feet with JUST fog lights on, in fog or clear weather... thats an initelligble idea.

Confusion? Fog lights cause confusion? You didn't vote in Miami Dade county last election did you, by chance?

[Bill R.]

here (http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p62/133159.pdf)







No need to have low beams on with fog lights? are you crazy? you can't see farther than 15' feet with JUST fog lights on, in fog or clear weather... thats an initelligble idea.

Confusion? Fog lights cause confusion? You didn't vote in Miami Dade county last election did you, by chance?

[ryan roopnarine]

gawd....i wish i never asked the question now....

[Robin-535im]

here (http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p62/133159.pdf)
You have a knack for finding obscure yet precisely relevant documents. I am impressed.

[andyman32]

gawd....i wish i never asked the question now....

You've created a monster! ;)

[ScottyWM]

No need to have low beams on with fog lights? are you crazy? you can't see farther than 15' feet with JUST fog lights on, in fog or clear weather... thats an initelligble idea.

Confusion? Fog lights cause confusion? You didn't vote in Miami Dade county last election did you, by chance?

They can be very useful under certain conditions that don't occur very often...

I've only BENEFITTED from the use of foglights 3 times:
Once in a blinding snowstorm at night (whiteout conditions). The only way I could move at all was to turn off high and low beams and crawl along at about 5mph with the foglights on looking for the lane markings. Very Scary. You could here people hitting each other.

Twice travelling on Wintergreen mountain in western Virginia. The fog was so damn thick you could punch a hole in it. Twisty mountain roads. Couldn't see diddly with normal lights. Cut them off and used the fogs, could at least see 5 -10 feet of the road in front of me.

[632 Regal]

I like my new elipsoid fogs, just cant aim them high enough they reach a limit in the lower grill. would have to dremmel the hole larger for them to go higher.

[Jon K]

I think that if the fog were that bad, I'd put my car in a driveway and take a nap.

[Mobius]

I think that if the fog were that bad, I'd put my car in a driveway and take a nap.
Duh?

Of course nobody goes out in fog like that on purpose. Fog is typically a very localised event. The point is, when you're already driving and get caught in thick fog - you have the ability to see SOMETHING - even if it's only the 5' in front of your car. I've been caught in situations like this a couple times, and my fogs saved me. Headlamps were totally useless.

[MicahO]

I like the DOT review Bill noted. Good review. I have to say that I do use my foggies on the 330, though it's not really that the Xenon's on that car need any help. Yes, the fogs provide some broad/close support, but truly - those Xenon's are so damn bright that they don't need any help. I always feel bad for the guy in front of me when we're going over undulating roads. I swear I can read people's THOUGHTS in the rear view mirror as they get fully into the beam path. And the high beams - wow - they cut the night. They go into full-deer-sweep mode and I can see a country mile.

I leave the fogs on because 1) I'm a poser, and I like how it looks, and 2) it alerts those educated few that "NO, these are NOT my high-beams!"

I still get flashed for highs 2 or more times a night. Such is life - at least I can see them coming. Maybe without the fogs on it would be 4 or 5.

[Jon K]

Duh?

Of course nobody goes out in fog like that on purpose. Fog is typically a very localised event. The point is, when you're already driving and get caught in thick fog - you have the ability to see SOMETHING - even if it's only the 5' in front of your car. I've been caught in situations like this a couple times, and my fogs saved me. Headlamps were totally useless.


I realize this. I am in Central PA right now, in between mountains and valleys of all sorts... we have fog warnings etc. I drove up to the Poconos for a film shoot and was one of 3 cars going up there. The other cars were new Honda Accord and a Acura TSX... they had halogen lamps and I don't believe they had fog lights. I have HID lamps and yellow fogs. I was the lead car after 30 mins of them leading, because i was able to see the road whereas they could not. Point is... in all the cars i've been in with HID lights, they don't wash out the foreground as much as halogen lamps do. The addition of yellow fog lights on my car made it that much better. I understand everyones point, but I fail to experience on-coming foglight glare, and i have experience in dense fog with low beams and fog lights on and was fine...

[bahnstormer]

thread is too long to read, but let me add this
when i have my fogs on during the day/dusk/dawn
i leave them on so others can see me...of course they
don't put out much light, but during those "gray" (or grey)
hours of the day, they help others to see you.

[winfred]

that's how i gauge if to flash them or not, you can't allways tell by position what part of the light is high anymore with these goofy looking modern fixtures


it alerts those educated few that "NO, these are NOT my high-beams!"

[Dick Schneiders]

They certainly would be enough for me to see you.


thread is too long to read, but let me add this
when i have my fogs on during the day/dusk/dawn
i leave them on so others can see me...of course they
don't put out much light, but during those "gray" (or grey)
hours of the day, they help others to see you.

[winfred]

damn this is getting almost as bad as when someone uses all CAPS and gets bitched at for the rest of the evening

[ryan roopnarine]

its times like these that i wish Ed had left the "thread author delete" function working, i'd so kill this thing if i had the ability.

[winfred]

hey i shoulda stayed home and played with myself

-rodney dangerfield


its times like these that i wish Ed had left the "thread author delete" function working, i'd so kill this thing if i had the ability.

[andyman32]

THIS THREAD IS ABSOLUTE BULLSH!T I HATE HIGHBEAMS I LOVE LOWBEAMS AND **** LOVE ALL THE FOGS OUT THERE **** YO YO YO GO BUSH I LOVE KERRY BUSH WILL ROCK KERRY WILL WIN

hahaha...

(That's supposed to be levity. I want this thread to die too. It stresses me out. rick? anyone? wanna lock it? wee!!!)

[Reidal]

Bill, I am also very impressed with your ability to recall data. Thanks for the backing.

Each to their own guys.

I am as firm in my beliefs as the rest of you and I do love the cut and thrust of controversy.

I was going to tell you my pet name for fog lights as used by the average motorists, but my wife tells me that it is not considered polite to use words like that in decent company (There may be a twisted compliment in there some where for you all if you look closely ;-)).

[632 Regal]

just kidding, wonder if this will eventually fill the whole first page?

think I'll go to the last pages and reply to some of the first postings we had when the format changed...that'd be much more fun.

[DueyT]

Bump.








:p

[632 Regal]

"sigh"