Cutting Springs

[Hypr5]

Hey guys,

I know many of you are REALLY against cutting your springs, but I spent all this money on shocks, springs, mounts, etc and the car did NOT lower where I wanted it to go and I can't spend anymore money on this.

What does everybody think of cutting 1 coil of the H&R lowering springs off? I dont mind harshness, I just don't want BOUNCE.

[Incantation]

it's obviously not the "right" think to do but whatever.. do what makes you happy.

[MaloventEvil]

i would like to know how you plan to cut it. with your teeth?

[Hypr5]

springs are not that hard to cut.
A good angle grinder with a cutting wheel will do the trick in a minute or so.

I'm just trying to see what people think - will it cause bounciness or just harshness?

[Mobius]

You risk the spring jumping the perch when the suspension unloads.

It's a fantastically stupid idea.

Give it a while for the suspension to settle down to its more permanent ride hight. New shocks and springs WILL RIDE HIGH WHEN THEY ARE NEW. Relax.

[tim s]

now he has a hard time driving over short speed bumps.
his bronco ii tranny also died last months & winter weather is coming soon to pa.
tim s.

[Hypr5]

You risk the spring jumping the perch when the suspension unloads.

It's a fantastically stupid idea.

Give it a while for the suspension to settle down to its more permanent ride hight. New shocks and springs WILL RIDE HIGH WHEN THEY ARE NEW. Relax.

I know, I know - many people including yourself have told me this, but there are also several people that I know and / or have talked to that used H&R and after over 2,000 miles have had not one bit of drop from settling. It just really sucks to spend a certain amount of money to not get the results you are looking for.

[525SEI BRIT]

I’d try spring clamps first! Cutting a spring will change its properties and you might not like the result! Plus there’s no going back after you cut them. And you risk falling the mot!


I know, I know - many people including yourself have told me this, but there are also several people that I know and / or have talked to that used H&R and after over 2,000 miles have had not one bit of drop from settling. It just really sucks to spend a certain amount of money to not get the results you are looking for.

[George M]

I'll dissent on this one. Removing one coil shouldn't be a big deal...tuners do it all the time...including big name brand guys. You need to measure the spring to make sure it is not conical and by cutting one coil it will nest exactly the same in the spring perch or above to the strut bearing grommet. I would not remove more than one coil....and may even consider cutting half a coil. Yes it will increase your spring rate...as much as 10-15%. Other thing you can do...which isn't an exact science is heat the spring under load to sag it down...difficult to achieve an equivalent drop cross-car with this technique however. You want to assess your ride as it is right now to determine if you can tolerate more stiffness. H&R springs are pretty aggressive springs and typical promote a 1.25" drop...surprised they did not achieve the drop you desired. It has been reported that Bilstein shocks can prop up the front end of a car a bit...maybe a contribuiting factor.
Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.
George

[Hypr5]

Thanks for that, it's nice to hear another opinion. I do have bilsteins and I would actually like the springs to be STIFFER, but I fear the dreaded bounce and bob on the highway. I did consider cutting less than one coil, but the reason I would have to go with one full coil is that it's the only way it would still seat properly. The upper mount and lower perch are both indented where the end of the coil seats.

To the person who said use spring compressors, are you talking about those things that people clamp on to their springs with bolts and "u" clips to "lower" a car? Do you know the proper term for these so I can buy them to get a feel for this before I do a permanent change to the springs?

Thanks a bunch

[George M]

well...the top strut mount/upper pad actually rotates...so you can cut less than 1 full coil off and still have the spring nest top and bottom when you tighten down the strut rod locknut. This will be apparent when you take it apart. The critical thing as mentioned above is the shape of the spring. If the spring is uniform section, you should be able to cut a portion of a coil off.
George

[632 Regal]

Cutting brand new springs? Why dont you cut the stockers for the drop you want and sell the H & Rs?

[Hypr5]

Cutting brand new springs? Why dont you cut the stockers for the drop you want and sell the H & Rs?
I figured since the H&Rs had a higher spring rate it would be less likely to get severe bounce from them than stock springs. I could be wrong, but I don't know.

[Dave M]

and considered more than one coil, but, since the mounts do not simply 'swivel' in a single plane, would one not end up changing the angle of the mount dramatically. I had given it some thought and decided on a single coil.
By the way, removing one stock spring coil (front only) started as an experiment, but worked so well that I drove it like that for almost two years before going with eibachs. Its the second vehicle I've done that to with no probs.

Dave M


well...the top strut mount/upper pad actually rotates...so you can cut less than 1 full coil off and still have the spring nest top and bottom when you tighten down the strut rod locknut. This will be apparent when you take it apart. The critical thing as mentioned above is the shape of the spring. If the spring is uniform section, you should be able to cut a portion of a coil off.
George

[Jose]

Cutting only one coli won't be worth it, you will hardly see any difference at all. There is a better, "safer" alternative . Bonrath,www.bonrath.de, a german company, sells the upper spring/schock dish ( don't know the exact term for the piece ) which lets your spring extend a bit more giving you an 10 mm bigger drop and if you give the H&R springs about 1000 miles to fully settle it could result in a total of 15-20 mm extra drop. Here in Europe these "dishes /plates "or wathever they are called should only set you back by 60-70 $. Not too expensive I think. I have them on my E36 325 coupe and it really gives the extra nose-dive.

[bimmerd00d]

i've heard of heaitng up springs to shrink them. Lots of the honda guys do it. lol.

[Dan in NZ]

You should check with your roadworthyness inspection place first. I know it's illegal to cut springs here, and your car will get ordered off the road with a huge fine.

[Dash01]

and considered more than one coil, but, since the mounts do not simply 'swivel' in a single plane, would one not end up changing the angle of the mount dramatically. I had given it some thought and decided on a single coil.
By the way, removing one stock spring coil (front only) started as an experiment, but worked so well that I drove it like that for almost two years before going with eibachs. Its the second vehicle I've done that to with no probs.

Dave M

Dave,

When you cut one coil:

1. How much lower did the car ride?

2. How different was the ride & handling, compared to pre-cut? and

3. How did the cut coils compare with the Eibach springs? (In other words, were the Eibachs a significant and worthwile improvement over cut OEM springs?)

Pls. advise, and thanks,

Bart

[Dash01]

and considered more than one coil, but, since the mounts do not simply 'swivel' in a single plane, would one not end up changing the angle of the mount dramatically. I had given it some thought and decided on a single coil.
By the way, removing one stock spring coil (front only) started as an experiment, but worked so well that I drove it like that for almost two years before going with eibachs. Its the second vehicle I've done that to with no probs.

Dave M

Dave,

When you cut one coil:

1. How much lower did the car ride?

2. How different was the ride & handling, compared to pre-cut? and

3. How did the cut coils compare with the Eibach springs? (In other words, were the Eibachs a significant and worthwile improvement over cut OEM springs?)

Pls. advise, and thanks,

Bart

[Dave M]

1) *NOte, I only chopped the fronts. The ride height difference will be clear. whether its 1 or 1.5" I'm not sure. I have a hard time believing spring manufacturers claims, as most vehicles suspensions are in various stages of decomposition and results should vary. Anyhow, take a look below, the eibachs lowered more in the front, but actually raised the rear end a bit, likely due to some serious original spring sag in back, which in turn may have been tilting the front end up a bit.

2) I wasn't looking for an improvement in handling, just a quickly/dirty method of improving the cars stance. No real noticable diff.

3) I wouldn't have spent the $400 Can. if I didn't think there would be an improvement (so I'm glad there was). The eibacks are probably a 'middle of the road' spring, not to harsh, but adding a definate improvement in handling.

In short, I wouldn't cut your stock springs without foreseeing a proper set-up down the road, especially if your stock springs are original.


Good luck,

One stock coil cut
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/Hunting%20Accident/CAR-2.jpg

Eibach
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/dave_macisaac/Bimmer/5erbriggs3.jpg



Dave,

When you cut one coil:

1. How much lower did the car ride?

2. How different was the ride & handling, compared to pre-cut? and

3. How did the cut coils compare with the Eibach springs? (In other words, were the Eibachs a significant and worthwile improvement over cut OEM springs?)

Pls. advise, and thanks,

Bart

[winfred]

yea and the first bump you hit the spring collapses because you killed the temper and the car lands on the bump stops, i sold more then one set of springs for a e30 to a car lot or shop due to some ass completely removing the springs and putting in blocks of wood or some other object to hold the car slightly off the ground


i've heard of heaitng up springs to shrink them. Lots of the honda guys do it. lol.

[Robin-535im]

When I put the bilsteins on my car (91 535) I looked at it and thought, "Damn, that's one high front end!" They will definitely settle down some. I'd wait a bit to see before you cut anything.

Also, they sell 3mm spring pads that drop the car a bit. At least for the rear, and possibly for the front too. Check BMA.

I've got some RD's that drop it nicely that I'll be selling here in a few weeks. If you're interested I can let you know when they're out.

[cary]

I question the wisdom of lowering your E34 further than the H&R springs already have given the limited travel of the suspension design, but here are some tips:

1) Bouncing as you see in many cars that are lowered, is not because the spring rates are to high. It is caused by either 1) lack of suspension travel causing the car to bottom on the bump stops, or 2) (more likely) the shocks not having adequate dampining for the spring rate. Remember the shock controls oscolation and the firmer the spring, the more dampining the shock needs to control it.

2) When you cut the springs, you will increase the spring rate. You can do a search on the internet for the forumula, but the rate of a spring is the function of its diameter and number of coils. By cutting 1 coil off of a 6 coil spring you will get an approximately 15% increase in spring rate.

3) When you cut the coil, you will have a pigtail sticking up. You will need to take a torch and heat the spring approximatly 1/3-1/2 coil back from the end and push it down flat to give the spring a proper perch. Metric Mechanics used to have instructions on how to do this, I don' know if they still do.

4) I think the Bilsteins will have adequate dampining for the higher spring rate. If you do have bouncing and it is not from bottoming the suspension, you can always pull the shocks and send them to bilstein. For a nominal fee they can change the valving. I would suggest you increase the rebound by 10-15% to control bouncing if it occurs and leave the compression dampining stock to not destroy the ride.

Good luck.

P.S.- Lowering you car further will not improve the handling. In fact, I would expect it to make it worse.

[billy in slo]

I have had cut springs on a 2002, an E12, and an E28, main problem was on the 02, they would clank around in the back when un-loaded, very annoying. Do you have sports or HD shocks? Sports are shorter and will help. I too would suggest cutting your stock springs, they will be shorter and firmer, and will be a cheaper test bed then cutting the H&R's should it prove to be a mistake. BTW, I did not cut the springs on any of my cars, I acquired them that way and eventually changed them all to shorter aftermarket springs which in every case was an improvement.

[bahnstormer]

if u want a car to look nice, rather than drive well, i think that you should shred your
drivers license

[infinity5]

well a large part of his question was about the effect on driveability. he's obviously concered with it. everyone here seems to be teeming with hatred for anyone who wants to do things to their car that aren't performance oriented, or non-OE look. we all have different opinions on what looks good and what looks tacky. I think any type of non-stock suspension negativly affects how '''well it drives'''. thats my subjective opinion.. i'm beting you either already have some type of non-stock suspension or would happily purchase one. becuase your opinion is differnt than mine. and i could claim you just wanted it to look good, no drive 'well'. maybe where i live the roads are very rough and handling isn't important in my 3500lb 4 door sedan. If i wanted a rough ride and tight cornering i'd buy a honda. Not to mention no one has said this was terribly unsafe (yet?). If we didn't want our cars to look nice we wouldn't be driving $40,000 dollar german imports. jeez.


if u want a car to look nice, rather than drive well, i think that you should shred your
drivers license

[Mobius]

well a large part of his question was about the effect on driveability. he's obviously concered with it. everyone here seems to be teeming with hatred for anyone who wants to do things to their car that aren't performance oriented, or non-OE look.Noo.. Not very many of us have completely oe-looking cars. :)

Not to mention no one has said this was terribly unsafe (yet?).Um..

You risk the spring jumping the perch when the suspension unloads.

yea and the first bump you hit the spring collapses because you killed the temper and the car lands on the bump stops
Cutting isn't necessarialy unsafe - if done 'right' by someone who knows what they're doing. Heating springs is a good way to get yourself killed.

If we didn't want our cars to look nice we wouldn't be driving $40,000 dollar german imports. jeez.That's not the issue - the issue is sacrificing safety and 'performance' (as it applies in this case) for looks. This is never an acceptable sacrifice - unless you don't plan on driving the car.

[Incantation]

it's funny how this topic always gets heated arguments.. in any car forum

[Hypr5]

it's funny how this topic always gets heated arguments.. in any car forum

Well I guess I'm just gonna put everything up for sale and and take a loss and buy some coilovers and matched shocks. ugh.

It's not all about looks, but I want a combo of looks and performance. Where I live and most surrounding areas are SMOOTH so I dont mind a really rough ride, I just don't want bounce or bottoming or anything unsafe.

Either way , thanks for all of your guy's input. If anybody wants some H&R sport springs for the 535 or pre 7/90 525, let me know. Bilstein touring shocks w/ less than 500 miles up for sale too then, I guess. But I can't sell anything unless someone answers my previous thread about converting to the newer style struts. Thanks for all the advice guys!

[632 Regal]

Well I guess I'm just gonna put everything up for sale and and take a loss and buy some coilovers and matched shocks. ugh.

It's not all about looks, but I want a combo of looks and performance. Where I live and most surrounding areas are SMOOTH so I dont mind a really rough ride, I just don't want bounce or bottoming or anything unsafe.

Either way , thanks for all of your guy's input. If anybody wants some H&R sport springs for the 535 or pre 7/90 525, let me know. Bilstein touring shocks w/ less than 500 miles up for sale too then, I guess. But I can't sell anything unless someone answers my previous thread about converting to the newer style struts. Thanks for all the advice guys!

[Hypr5]

http://bmwforums.penguinstudios.com/sp0rky/stockheight1.jpg
That was stock - and this is now : (sorry for cam phone, digicam broke while jacking up the car - it fell off the trunk lol
http://bmwforums.penguinstudios.com/sp0rky/low1.jpg
http://bmwforums.penguinstudios.com/sp0rky/low2.jpg
As you can see, it's not HIGH, just not as low as I would really like it to be.

[632 Regal]

Mine sits about a 1/2 inch lower and with the V8 it definetly BOOMS over these huge craters on my frozen mud road. You want that little extra clearance in there so it dont bottom all the time. Besides it dropped it about an inch and a half over stock, I think it looks nice!!!

Give it a few weeks for you to get used to before you change tham things out or cut them up, I think you will be ultimatly happy.

If you want to seriously slam it, if you drop it 1 more inch you will only have 1 inch of downward travel to pick up the slack so seriously think about dropping it much more.

Be happy, its a BMW.

[Incantation]

mm.. that's not bad

just chop a coil who gives a chit. don't let the hardcore guys make you feel stupid for doing it. cutting 3 coils is bad, yea. but one round.. i mean who cares? it's your car.. make it what you want.

my buddy has an e36 dumped on 19s.. we had to roll the fenders in the back with a heat gun, baseball bat and rubber mallet just to fit the 245s in there.. and the fender itself sits where the edge of the rim is with the tire up in the fender.. it looks amazing and it rides fine. makes me want to lower my car a bit more. anyway.. he chopped one coil on his eibach pro-kit and honestly there is little different between the ride quality of his car and mine ('90 e34 535)

incidentally my car sits a bit lower than that and i have a sachs kit.. 640 shipped (link on http://www.bmwe34.net. at bottom) it's not much of a difference.. but i am happy with it. maybe after winter i will chop a coil though :)

anyway, for some reason people defend their viewpoint on cutting coils with a vengeance and attack others if their opinions differ.. forget them. do what makes you happy.

[632 Regal]

mm.. that's not bad

just chop a coil who gives a chit. don't let the hardcore guys make you feel stupid for doing it. cutting 3 coils is bad, yea. but one round.. i mean who cares? it's your car.. make it what you want.

my buddy has an e36 dumped on 19s.. we had to roll the fenders in the back with a heat gun, baseball bat and rubber mallet just to fit the 245s in there.. and the fender itself sits where the edge of the rim is with the tire up in the fender.. it looks amazing and it rides fine. makes me want to lower my car a bit more. anyway.. he chopped one coil on his eibach pro-kit and honestly there is little different between the ride quality of his car and mine ('90 e34 535)

incidentally my car sits a bit lower than that and i have a sachs kit.. 640 shipped (link on http://www.bmwe34.net. at bottom) it's not much of a difference.. but i am happy with it. maybe after winter i will chop a coil though :)

anyway, for some reason people defend their viewpoint on cutting coils with a vengeance and attack others if their opinions differ.. forget them. do what makes you happy.

[Incantation]

haha
i bet u will :)
:o